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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Shaman Changes!

  1. #16
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    No but thats what gery and acuta wrote on our skype comparing it with foofi.

    para test gear is 98k in live gear 98-99k
    assasin more or less 100k with live gear and a bit lower with test gear.
    i'd be interested in seeing some warrior and rogue parses with t3 weapon dps
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  2. #17
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    If every fight in tier 3 is a stand still, no add, no disconnect, no mechanic fight, then this should be totally adequate.

  3. #18
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    ITT:

    >Implying warriors and rogues will be relying solely on paragon and 61 assassin as their dps specs in T3.
    >No mention of how strong 38/38 and RB are going to be.
    >Classes who have traditionally been very strong yet again saying clerics are "fine" when in reality they're still going to be behind every other class, without any of the utility or the option to play a spec with good* cleave.

    *In the current meta shaman cleave is dog**** tier compared to the options the other classes have.

  4. #19
    RIFT Guide Writer Orangu's Avatar
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    never really understood why warriors having three tanking souls was too much, but clerics having "four?" healing souls was fine and dandy. Would you count defiler as a healing soul? I don't know >.>
    Last edited by Orangu; 10-04-2015 at 08:24 PM.


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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    No but thats what gery and acuta wrote on our skype comparing it with foofi.

    para test gear is 98k in live gear 98-99k
    assasin more or less 100k with live gear and a bit lower with test gear.

    I don't believe this is true. If para is parsing 98k-99k in test gear it is going to parse way higher on live. Take a look at T2 trinket that alone by itself is adding 2K+ to Ecrus parse. Not to mention he probably has dual stat cp gear that forces him to stack more sp on the way up. Can't compare live. T3 to T3 is the only good comparison without being biased. Some of the warriors have also decided to stack phys/crit on live gear because of how reaver works. Paragon doesn't need that sort of itemization. Live gear parse from warrior has to be looked at more critically. Did he min/max for paragon correctly?
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-05-2015 at 04:51 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by N3okorrales View Post
    No but thats what gery and acuta wrote on our skype comparing it with foofi.

    para test gear is 98k in live gear 98-99k
    assasin more or less 100k with live gear and a bit lower with test gear.
    Gery is kind of known for making rogue look bad every time there is a new patch. I doubt he parsed correctly. I don't really have top of the line rogue gear. Missing T2 trinket and range is still t1 and I can get 97- 98kish with assassin and I think NB/SIN is ahead and has disconnect potential. You have to consider how well geared they are. Clerics are posting in live gear have pretty much min/max. My cleric for instance in live is only doing 94k-95k vs. T3 94k.
    Last edited by Planetx; 10-05-2015 at 05:06 AM.

  7. #22
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Gery is kind of known for making rogue look bad every time there is a new patch. I doubt he parsed correctly. I don't really have top of the line rogue gear. Missing T2 trinket and range is still t1 and I can get 97- 98kish with assassin and I think NB/SIN is ahead and has disconnect potential. You have to consider how well geared they are. Clerics are posting in live gear have pretty much min/max. My cleric for instance in live is only doing 94k-95k vs. T3 94k.
    I'm pretty sure Acuta and Gery have the very best gear available, including both relic rings and earrings from iGP, and if not, that they are probably in the top5 best geared of their callings on live.
    I'm also quite confident they're in the TOP5 players (TOP1 in my heart boys <3) of their respective callings, and I respect them enough to blindly believe them when they tell me in our guild skype channel what they are parsing.

    The awful truth is that clerics need the CP cap to be competitive, while other callings not so much. (see scaling issues mentioned in my previous post). With proper T3 gear, clerics will probably pull behind. But with current best-ish live gear, we're pulling around the same as paragon and assassin.
    Last edited by fufi; 10-05-2015 at 05:33 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    I'm pretty sure Acuta and Gery have the very best gear available, including both relic rings and earrings from iGP, and if not, that they are probably in the top5 best geared of their callings on live.
    I'm also quite confident they're in the TOP5 players (TOP1 in my heart boys <3) of their respective callings, and I respect them enough to blindly believe them when they tell me in our guild skype channel what they are parsing.

    The awful truth is that clerics need the CP cap to be competitive, while other callings not so much. (see scaling issues mentioned in my previous post)
    There is no possible way that live gear rogue is parsing the same as test gear. I am sorry but this is just clear as day without even any testing needed. Just look at the difference between the trinket and consider the procs alone. I would say they should be over 100K easily as sin. Plus BD buffs. K thanks
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-05-2015 at 05:36 AM.

  9. #24
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Or, the scaling of paragon and assassin is MUCH BETTER than shaman's, and T3 stats make up for the missing procs compared to live gear, which points another time at how awful shaman scaling is and how much it needs to be adressed.

    Basically, what needs to happen is that the SP contribution of our attacks need to be higher, while the base damage goes lower, in such a way that the live gear damage isn't affected, while T3 test gear goes up to 99k dps, like assassin and paragon.

    Better yet, since Devs know how bad the test gear is, whoever is in charge of producing the test gear could provide us with proper stats (with 3k CP, no callings don't want 3k CP anyway), and then we can finally start balancing things out, because since Shaman scales so well with CP, I'm pretty sure my suggestion would be overkill.
    Last edited by fufi; 10-05-2015 at 05:43 AM.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    There is no possible way that live gear rogue is parsing the same as test gear. I am sorry but this is just clear as day without even any testing needed. Just look at the difference between the trinket and consider the procs alone. I would say they should be over 100K easily as sin. Plus BD buffs. K thanks
    I didn't even bother to try the new sin/bd synergy. I wonder if any rogues tested it. That looks like a dps increase from first glance.

  11. #26
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    The damage buffs right now are little more than a rounding difference and will do nothing to change to state of Shaman compared to other classes.

    So basically the same thing that happened with the last shaman buff.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    Or, the scaling of paragon and assassin is MUCH BETTER than shaman's, and T3 stats make up for the missing procs compared to live gear, which points another time at how awful shaman scaling is and how much it needs to be adressed.

    Basically, what needs to happen is that the SP contribution of our attacks need to be higher, while the base damage goes lower, in such a way that the live gear damage isn't affected, while T3 test gear goes up to 99k dps, like assassin and paragon.

    Better yet, since Devs know how bad the test gear is, whoever is in charge of producing the test gear could provide us with proper stats (with 3k CP, no callings don't want 3k CP anyway), and then we can finally start balancing things out, because since Shaman scales so well with CP, I'm pretty sure my suggestion would be overkill.
    This may be true.. I don't know how effective the weapon dps is but I still think they should be parsing over 100K with live gear if they have best in slot.

  13. #28
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    A representative parse is a parse that lasts at the very least 5 minutes (the longer the better), that has zero or close to zero rotation mistakes, and stops before the minute cooldowns.
    For specs that have 2 minutes cooldown (Inquisitor for instance), the parse should end before the 2min block, (basically around 2N:00, N being a natural integer).

    If I stop a parse right after my Deep Freeze, I too will parse over 100k. That's not representative of my sustained dps though.
    For the same reason, an bad parse on PrancingTurtle might be better than a good parse, because the boss died at a favorable spot for the bad parse, ending it on a damage spike, while ending right before the damage spike of the good parse.
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  14. #29
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    A representative parse is a parse that lasts at the very least 5 minutes (the longer the better), that has zero or close to zero rotation mistakes, and stops before the minute cooldowns.
    For specs that have 2 minutes cooldown (Inquisitor for instance), the parse should end before the 2min block, (basically around 2N:00, N being a natural integer).

    If I stop a parse right after my Deep Freeze, I too will parse over 100k. That's not representative of my sustained dps though.
    For the same reason, an bad parse on PrancingTurtle might be better than a good parse, because the boss died at a favorable spot for the bad parse, ending it on a damage spike, while ending right before the damage spike of the good parse.
    this is why i parse 10-12+ mins. once i get to the point where using deep freeze results in a 200-300ish change in my dps, i stop.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Gery is kind of known for making rogue look bad every time there is a new patch. I doubt he parsed correctly. I don't really have top of the line rogue gear. Missing T2 trinket and range is still t1 and I can get 97- 98kish with assassin and I think NB/SIN is ahead and has disconnect potential. You have to consider how well geared they are. Clerics are posting in live gear have pretty much min/max. My cleric for instance in live is only doing 94k-95k vs. T3 94k.
    Im probably the best geared rogue in the game full bis with 2 relic rings 2 relic earings and relic cape and im parsing that. Acusing gery of doing that is completely ******ed when he actually sugested to nerf mm couple of days before release cause it was completely op(10%nerf on CS and 1 less stack from silver tip) but hey we got reaver....

    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    I didn't even bother to try the new sin/bd synergy. I wonder if any rogues tested it. That looks like a dps increase from first glance.
    We did and it was overperforming thats why it got nerfed the day after but hey keep acusing....


    If you want to know why diference between live and test is relatively small for rogues and warriors and so big for clerics read foofis posts.

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