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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: What -I- think needs to change about Clerics - You?

  1. #16
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    This is a simple change to increase Shaman's damage, changes below to Druid will also do that.

    Mastery
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    Increases unmounted movement speed by 10%.
    Increases the radius of your Guard by 3m.
    Removes health requirement from Glacial Strike.
    Harsh Discipline can now be channeled while moving.
    uh, no offense, but have you ever played shaman? this would give you a total of one non-physical ability to use during your rotation, with lightning hammer only being used for disconnects. the entire rotation would just be a two button phys macro/glacial/phys macro/glacial/phys macro/glacial with absolutely no reason to use anything else.

    can we please not suggest dumbing down specs to this sort of braindead two button level?
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    uh, no offense, but have you ever played shaman? this would give you a total of one non-physical ability to use during your rotation, with lightning hammer only being used for disconnects. the entire rotation would just be a two button phys macro/glacial/phys macro/glacial/phys macro/glacial with absolutely no reason to use anything else.

    can we please not suggest dumbing down specs to this sort of braindead two button level?
    Glacial strike has a 10s cd. I may be missing something but if there is a way to reduce that to 2 seconds please tell me so I can improve my sub 30 rotation.

    Quote Originally Posted by OmegaDagger View Post
    Just a thought....

    What if you added a high talent in Warden that allowed its overhealing to do damage, making it a high damage raid healing option?
    Honestly I wouldn't mind if they removed damage from all healers and balanced raid around healers not doing damage. I don't think making any healing spec do a significant amount of damage is a good idea.

  3. #18
    Ascendant ecru's Avatar
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    ah you're right, i misread it as removing the cd (which was something bctrainers suggested to me awhile ago) instead of the health requirement.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    Defiler
    The goal around this is to make it so you can focus more on dealing damage when you what to, while you still have the option to actively heal.

    If the Cleric dies their own Links would be removed, making the Link on allies lose their mitigation they provide.
    The Link on the ally would persist through the Cleric's death, while the ally will keep the Link if they themselves died.
    The Cleric reapplying their Links to themselves will give back the ally's mitigation.
    Refreshing the Link on another ally or changing instances will remove the Link automatically.
    The Link tooltip will show two different abilities depending on what the Cleric is targeting.
    Oh for the love of Thontic, any time spent on "QoL link changes" is wasted effort. If you're intent upon leaving the Defiler with it's identity crisis, then link management remains an integral component of the soul and should not be dumbed down. Managing links in PvP adds interest if not challenge to the soul. Links in PvE are fine. With the Defiler FG or Karuul add-ons, mouseover macros, and off gcd application, link management requires insignificant time and little effort for the Defiler to maintian maximum mitigation & dps potential. As a core function of the soul currently, the Defiler SHOULD BE aware of who is linked, or not due to a purge, death or disconnect. If pulls are delayed because the Defiler has to re-link after a wipe, the raid & class leaders have important issues to address with role assignments. Seriously, re-linking after a raid wipe takes less than 2 seconds, unless I'm waiting for the BM to re-summon their kitty. We already have complaints that Defiler is a 1-button brain-dead spec (though I'd argue otherwise if anyone cared.) Removing Defiler link management equates to Bards/Oracles not needing to recast Inspirations/Motifs - please stop suggesting the removal of simple yet critical actions by the player to maintain effectiveness.

    While we're discussing potential future soul revisions the quote below has a more pressing need for attention for Defilers this week. Too many gcds are already required to keep a Husk active during Matron & Zilas add phases without nerfing the effectiveness of the Husk itself simply because it's flagged as an absorb. Husk is not an absorb applied to others, it's what allows the Defiler to live through link damage and as such should be exempt from the changes to shielding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accol View Post
    Defiler's Husk of Indifference is currently only absorbing 85% of damage and is counting towards the shield cap. This probably should have been left alone at 100% and not count towards the cap.

    This shield hits for40-45%% of your cap and crits for nearly your entire cap. If left alone defilers would constantly be taking 15% of link damage.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    Oh for the love of Thontic, any time spent on "QoL link changes" is wasted effort. If you're intent upon leaving the Defiler with it's identity crisis, then link management remains an integral component of the soul and should not be dumbed down. Managing links in PvP adds interest if not challenge to the soul. Links in PvE are fine. With the Defiler FG or Karuul add-ons, mouseover macros, and off gcd application, link management requires insignificant time and little effort for the Defiler to maintian maximum mitigation & dps potential. As a core function of the soul currently, the Defiler SHOULD BE aware of who is linked, or not due to a purge, death or disconnect. If pulls are delayed because the Defiler has to re-link after a wipe, the raid & class leaders have important issues to address with role assignments. Seriously, re-linking after a raid wipe takes less than 2 seconds, unless I'm waiting for the BM to re-summon their kitty. We already have complaints that Defiler is a 1-button brain-dead spec (though I'd argue otherwise if anyone cared.) Removing Defiler link management equates to Bards/Oracles not needing to recast Inspirations/Motifs - please stop suggesting the removal of simple yet critical actions by the player to maintain effectiveness.

    While we're discussing potential future soul revisions the quote below has a more pressing need for attention for Defilers this week. Too many gcds are already required to keep a Husk active during Matron & Zilas add phases without nerfing the effectiveness of the Husk itself simply because it's flagged as an absorb. Husk is not an absorb applied to others, it's what allows the Defiler to live through link damage and as such should be exempt from the changes to shielding.
    None of the clerics in our guild like playing the spec, especially during progression. . There are guilds who still wipe constantly under 3 mins. during progression. With the properly played defiler you pop you mana pot around that time and wipe right after. How many derp warrior and rogue leads keep complaining that our defiler takes too much time between pulls to drink relink etc. just to wipe on some miss pull and do it over again. If you are in a progressive raiding guild.. a guild that carries newbies not a hard core one that is only goal is progressing in the newest content it becomes a tedious chore to play it with new players.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-05-2015 at 06:29 AM.

  6. #21
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    Lol, I've been noticing that too. Especially if we are carrying a few players in pumpkin fight and we are using defiler. Our defiler cursed us out and logged out one time on that fight :P
    Last edited by Planetx; 10-05-2015 at 06:42 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    ....
    Ohh and the properly played defiler spec can pull close if not over 100K on sicaron with good contract RNG. It really isn't a one button spec. I don't know how they do it, I just know it is a dark water build.
    Last edited by Planetx; 10-05-2015 at 06:51 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    None of the clerics in our guild like playing the spec, especially during progression.
    Hence my suggestion of a complete rework of the soul to full dps - ST with decent cleave. I prefer ranged but really don't care that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    There are guilds who still wipe constantly under 3 mins. during progression.
    Been there, done that, payed the soul mend costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    With the properly played defiler you pop you mana pot around that time and wipe right after.
    If the Defiler can wait 3 minutes into the fight to pop a mana tonic, they are less effective that they could be - and yes I do mean dps wise, I hardly ever need to use Explosive Growth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    How many derp warrior and rogue leads keep complaining that our defiler takes too much time between pulls to drink relink etc. just to wipe on some miss pull and do it over again.
    Mana regen after a wipe is an issue for ALL cleric specs. Re-linking takes less than 2 seconds. Your Warriors and Rogues can't type complaints in raid chat that fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    If you are in a progressive raiding guild.. a guild that carries newbies not a hard core one that is only goal is progressing in the newest content it becomes a tedious chore to play it with new players.
    Dumbing down the link mechanic will not resolve this issue.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Ohh and the properly played defiler spec can pull close if not over 100K on sicaron with good contract RNG. It really isn't a one button spec. I don't know how they do it, I just know it is a dark water build.
    If you don't use UT and go 58 you can definitely pull close if not over 100K dps with defiler. Max I have seen is around 97k at end of fight with missing BIS.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Ohh and the properly played defiler spec can pull close if not over 100K on sicaron with good contract RNG. It really isn't a one button spec. I don't know how they do it, I just know it is a dark water build.
    And to think I was happy with my 97k with 3 contracts while having to purge and heal a 1-tank strat last Wednesday.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uviktig View Post
    And to think I was happy with my 97k with 3 contracts while having to purge and heal a 1-tank strat last Wednesday.
    Our defiler did that the other day without having all the necessary raid buffs. Missing 48bm. You can definitely hit higher than 100K although you won't have purge.
    Last edited by Flashmemory; 10-05-2015 at 07:09 AM.

  12. #27
    Rift Master EverydayAnomaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashmemory View Post
    None of the clerics in our guild like playing the spec, especially during progression. . There are guilds who still wipe constantly under 3 mins. during progression. With the properly played defiler you pop you mana pot around that time and wipe right after. How many derp warrior and rogue leads keep complaining that our defiler takes too much time between pulls to drink relink etc. just to wipe on some miss pull and do it over again. If you are in a progressive raiding guild.. a guild that carries newbies not a hard core one that is only goal is progressing in the newest content it becomes a tedious chore to play it with new players.
    I have never really had this issue. It literally takes about the same amount of time for a Defiler or Puri to self buff, divine favor, tank buff, put on links, etc.. 6 to 8 seconds after rez is about all you need - for either spec. Do you not give a quick discussion (30 seconds or so) after each wipe saying what went wrong and how to avoid it in the future? Maybe not on a big insta wipe (dps missed interrupt or tank mistake) but otherwise you usually should give some info as to what caused the wipe and what you can do better on the next pull. That time alone after each wipe is plenty to get folks ready - and its invaluable in helping non hard core folks get up to speed.

    Sure, it takes out about 15 minutes of raiding time (on average) over a 2 hour raid but in the long run its non-raiding time well spent. We are a PVP guild and we are 4/4 4/5 1/3 -- and half the group would rather be doing anything but raiding. (LOL - try leading that group!)

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  13. #28
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    It seems to me that the biggest problem with the calling isn't innate to any particular specs (except possibly useless Druid). The main quality of like problem is with the calling's ability to hybrid. There are lots of factors that make it nearly impossible to form an effective hybrid.

    The biggest barrier to entry is the fact that many of the 58/61 abilities in the roots are either overpowered or simply core to the soul's gameplay. You cannot play Shaman without furious assault. You cannot play inquisitor without spiritual scrutiny. Taking flame of life out of a purifier spec just seems laughable. Having such a hefty incentive to take 58 or 61 points in soul really limits your options in a negative way.

    Let's take the mage calling as an example, for contrast. Buffs that completely define the specs are generally not located at the very end of a root. Mage armors are normally unlocked very early in the tree and talents are taken to improve them. This allows you to get a lot of value out of a soul before you reach even 40 points, leaving plenty for other souls. Also, mage specs with reduced GCD are handled much better. Instead of getting a spec-altering buff at 61, there are talents in the 30-35 range that shorten your GCD for the spells for that soul. In short, you can get your shortened GCD without paying an arm and a leg for it.

    Overall, what I am proposing is this. Move some of the power in the cleric souls away from the end of the root, especially for specs that offer reduced GCD. Give talent choices that provide options, rather than must-haves. With the soul tree being at the very heart of what makes Rift the game that it is, it just seems criminal that clerics don't get the same opportunity as other callings.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Planetx View Post
    Ohh and the properly played defiler spec can pull close if not over 100K on sicaron with good contract RNG. It really isn't a one button spec. I don't know how they do it, I just know it is a dark water build.
    Most of the spells in that build are instant - so there are only a couple of small macros needed - way more than one button. Also, i have noticed there are a couple of convos going on in this thread related to Defiler. Mainly, its because you have the DW spec and the healing spec. They serve two very different purposes depending on the fight.

    DW is a linkbot/UTbot focusing on DPS and not really healing at all (unless tank heal goes down). It uses the dps trinket and crystal.

    The heal spec (my PVP build) I have only used on Johan to herd jellies - need the extra oohmph in healing to be able to effectively do this and i don't dps hardly at all on that fight because of that. Don't know if it is used at all in T2 stuff because i have not done any of that.
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  15.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #30
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    Great thread, OP. I'm very busy right now but I'll definitely come back here and address these when I have time for forum posting later this week.
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