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Thread: Justicar Tanking Specs (Various Levels/Soul Combinations)

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    Plane Touched Shablo5's Avatar
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    Default Justicar Tanking Specs (Various Levels/Soul Combinations/Theorycraft)

    First and foremost. I have NOT experimented with 2H-Tanking nor will I at this time. Please refrain from discussing this here as there are plenty of other threads elsewhere pertaining to this topic. These specs will deal with 1H Shield
    If you ever see anything you feel is wrong, please post about it. I'd love to discuss the mechanics of Clerics with each of you.

    Below every one of my specs are, in my opinion, comments on controversial talents that I either took or left out and why.

    Second, in none of my specs will you find the talents:
    Doctrine of Bliss (Heals the Cleric for X to X health. Removes 1 conviction)
    Healer's Creed (Reduces the mana cost of your doctrines by X%)
    Humbling Blow (A Crippling blow that deals weapon damage plus X to X Life damage, in addition to snaring the enemy, reducing their movement speed by X% for 5 seconds)
    Forced to Kneel (Gives the Humbling Blow an X% Chance to root the enemy for 3 seconds. Root cannot be broken by damage)
    Stunning Blow (Gives your Sovereign Hammer an X% chance to stun the enemy for 2 seconds.)

    Third, in all of my specs you will find the talents:
    Reparation (Infuses the Cleric's weapon with a healing radiance, causing their damaging abilities to heal up to 10 nearby party and raid members. Justicar abilities heal for 25% of the damage done, all other abilities 10% of the damage done. Does not effect the Cleric or anyone else using Repiration.)

    My reasoning:

    Code:
    Doctrine of Bliss - Mein of Leadership turns this ability to ****. Enough said.
    Healer's Creed - The only ability you'd be using with this is Doctrine of Authority the odd time and you will never be specc'd into justicar that far to obtain it, at least as far as I can conceivably see.
    Humbling Blow - This is a bit subjective. We can see that right from the get go it has Life Damage and does more at level one than any previous attack. This could be good for threat, because as we all know, threat = Damage. But as I haven't tested this, I won't use it. Test this for yourself.
    Forced to Kneel - Can't find a point so far in trying IT, DSM, FC where this would be useful.
    Stunning Blow - Perhaps would be good for chasing a stray mob, sort of like Humbling Blow, however if we're doing our job right by not only tanking, but assessing what monsters we are fighting and selecting the correct roles to accommodate the given situation (Eg: AoE or Single Target specs) we won't need this. But then again, not everything goes as planne.
    Reparation - Not effected by Mien of Leadership, this ability is great. So far there are a few boss fights out there that will tackle you with constant AoE (let it be people messing up to the last boss of FC (Puddles of Poo, Third boss DSM (And fourth), Third boss FC (One of the adds has a frontal cone, etc). As you can see so far there are plenty of times the extra heals can be useful if people either make a mistake and take some damage, or it's unavoidable. Either way, great talent.

    First and foremost, for the upcoming beta on the 4th of February to the 7th of February I comprised these TWO spec of Just/Sham/Druid for the maximum level of 35:

    #1 - For more Utility and Control:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...oREuo0zz.V0V.x

    Pros: More AoE Control and group utility.
    Cons: Less mitigation.

    Comments:

    This spec I find is more everyday use. It leaves out the extra three points in Valor because I need more points to boost Even Justice's enemy target's. At a higher level I will definitely put the points in here. I don't take Commitment right away because with Precept of Purpose after using Precept of Valiance to gain aggro, I will have time to regen the mana with that. However, like above, this spec at higher levels will take the talent Commitment, but for now it isn't completely necessary.
    Light makes Right has %'s that we can't see, nor has anyone found out yet (As far as I know) so we can't say how much it helps, but in a general statement: Conviction = Threat. More crit = more conviction generation = more threat. This is also why I took Overwhelming instead of Dauntless Courage. If you honestly want to scrap utility altogether, you can take points out of Reprieve and Absolution, OR if you're ballsy, keep those and take them out of Thick Skinned, and put anywhere between 2 and 5 into Spirit of the Hunter over there in Druid.
    The strength of the build is your AoE. You build up your conviction and pop Precept of Valiance at least twice to get a great bulk of AoE threat and then if need be, Precept of Purpose to get the mana back. You also have your Combat Rez (Absolution) and your strong heal (That isn't effected by Mien of Leadership: Reprieve) to use when the going gets tough. Very strong spec.

    #2 - For more Survival:
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00rna.ihoqEz.x0Vh.x

    Pros: More survivability (Extra block rating (About 100 at level 35 if the scaling math in my head works lol, dependent on gear), extra healing done TO you,
    Cons: Less AoE Control, no battle rez , more self-focused (Good&Bad)

    Comments:

    Definitely a role you keep on you for single target fights AT level 35. After level 35 you will be getting more aoe threat gen, but for now, this will be a purely singlet target role for bosses such as Last boss in DSM or IT for a quick example, where as this spec wouldn't be better than the previous on ANY boss in FC (Unless you can switch on the immune&adds boss as the last adds die :P
    With this spec you are definitely a 'One Trick Pony', as you have no 'Oh ****' buttons as you do in the above, your aim is to keep everything clean and smooth, as it should be on a single target boss fight. Not much to say about this spec other than you get to take a few more hits (Which is USUALLY the need in single target boss fights) and make the healer's life a little bit easier.

    Now below I will list, in my opinion, the best tanking specs for the levels of 20 (IT), 25 (DSM) and 30 (FC) . 42 Spec will be out after the next Beta ends in 1 week
    Keep in mind, these are not solo specs. These are roles you will equip strictly for dungeons to provide the best possible tanking.


    I posted this by accident as I wasn't finished, I will update it periodically over the next hour or so.
    If you want to debate/comment on anything while you wait, please do. Discussion and critique makes everyone more knowledgeable.
    Last edited by Shablo5; 02-01-2011 at 03:25 PM.

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    Ok, why separate AOE and Single Target tanking? Are you an off tank? If yes, the whats the point of all this since you can off-tank with Mein of Honor for a bit. If you are the main tank then Even Justice and three points Vengeful Justice are a must, since the very first instance you will need to tank groups of up to 3 elites. How will you do that without Even Justice?

    Ok, another point. Armor of Virtue does not stack nicely with Mein of Leadership, its kind of a waste. I'd suggest you invest points into Hammer of Virtue instead. Five points into Safe Haven is way too much, the additional bonus of 5% is too little even if the shield block worked at the moment, you also put five points into 5% increase and leave the Valor skill with just two points. Commitment is another great talent that you ignore on both builds, especially after investing so many points into block you are not even going to get some mana regen from it?

    Last one, instead of putting 5 points into endurance on Druid soul I would rather put 5 points into Unstoppable Force.
    Last edited by Gnaw; 02-01-2011 at 03:25 PM.

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaw View Post
    Ok, why separate AOE and Single Target tanking? Are you an off tank? If yes, the whats the point of all this since you can off-tank with Mein of Honor for a bit. If you are the main tank then Even Justice and three points Vengeful Justice are a must, since the very first instance you will need to tank groups of up to 3 elites. How will you do that without Even Justice?

    Ok, another point. Armor of Virtue does not stack nicely with Mein of Leadership, its kind of a waste. I'd suggest you invest points into Hammer of Virtue instead. Five points into Safe Haven is way too much, the additional bonus of 5% is too little even if the shield block worked at the moment, you also put five points into 5% increase and leave the Valor skill with just two points. Commitment is another great talent that you ignore on both builds, especially after investing so many points into block you are not even going to get some mana regen from it?

    Last one, instead of putting 5 points into endurance on Druid soul I would rather put 5 points into Unstoppable Force.
    #1 You have multiple roles for a reason. Why not use two to have separate builds, one for the most of each encounter? That's why I have two specs differentiating AoE and Single Target. Simple really. You equip different roles for different fights. I specifically mentioned below exactly WHAT I was taking each spec for. It was obvious, really.

    #2 I can't personally view the numbers for Armor of Virtue right now, I have read elsewhere that chain has low armor rating to begin with, however with the bonus I feel it would be worth it. The damage mitigation over an extra 6% damage. Damage is threat, but i've had absolutely NO problem even keeping aggro over stormcaller/ele which blows the **** out of AoE. If you find yourself having trouble holding aggro, by all means swap it out. I don't, so I choose the mitigation and it's worked perfect for me.

    #3 I don't feel 5% consistent block is a waste. I stated in the build I didn't max Valor in, why I didn't. Please read the comments. I also addressed the reason why I didn't go for Commitment. Again, please read. If I had issues with either of these talents not being either maxed/taken, I would have taken them last beta. Commitment is icing on the cake in my personal opinion. Great to have, not necessary so it's not taken. Yet.

    #4 5% Endurance is also mitigation. My pocket sentinel hasn't had a problem healing me, not only that, but I also haven't experimented with Unstoppable Force. I think i'd take it the farther down the tree I go, as with Commitment and other traits (also, listed in the comment sections below each spec) however they aren't necessary with the current level of content I was tanking. If your healers cannot keep you up, I suggest never diverting from the first spec and droppin the endurance for Unstoppable Force.

    Everything is situational. Everything above is from my own perspective from playing the game. If you feel you need more help holding threat or less mitigation but more heals so your healer can keep you up? (Although that sounds downright silly). Go nuts. The GLORY about these forums is that they are too learn

    Thanks for your post.
    Last edited by Shablo5; 02-01-2011 at 03:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shablo5 View Post
    #1 You have multiple roles for a reason. Why not use two to have separate builds, one for the most of each encounter? That's why I have two specs differentiating AoE and Single Target. Simple really. You equip different roles for different fights.

    #2 I can't personally view the numbers for Armor of Virtue right now, I have read elsewhere that chain has low armor rating to begin with, however with the bonus I feel it would be worth it. The damage mitigation over an extra 6% damage. Damage is threat, but i've had absolutely NO problem even keeping aggro over stormcaller/ele which blows the **** out of AoE. If you find yourself having trouble holding aggro, by all means swap it out. I don't, so I choose the mitigation and it's worked perfect for me.

    #3 I don't feel 5% consistent block is a waste. I stated in the build I didn't max Valor in, why I didn't. Please read the comments. I also addressed the reason why I didn't go for Commitment. Again, please read. If I had issues with either of these talents not being either maxed/taken, I would have taken them last beta. Commitment is icing on the cake in my personal opinion. Great to have, not necessary so it's not taken. Yet.

    #4 5% Endurance is also mitigation. My pocket sentinel hasn't had a problem healing me, not only that, but I also haven't experimented with Unstoppable Force. I think i'd take it the farther down the tree I go, as with Commitment and other traits (also, listed in the comment sections below each spec) however they aren't necessary with the current level of content I was tanking. If your healers cannot keep you up, I suggest never diverting from the first spec and droppin the endurance for Unstoppable Force.

    Everything is situational. Everything above is from my own perspective from playing the game. If you feel you need more help holding threat or less mitigation but more heals so your healer can keep you up? (Although that sounds downright silly). Go nuts.

    Thanks for your post.

    Very nice thought out response, I agree with you on the majority of issues except two. The two tanking builds, I can see the appeal of those as each will have the absolute min/max possible for the purpose. However, in cases of adds or patrol pulls/botched pulls I would rather have Even Justice with the max points in Vengeful Justice. Its just too good a skill not to persue, not only is it the for those "oh damn" situations, it also grants a conviction point and healing. With points in Vengeful Justice you are making that ability even better, for the same amount of mana you can gain more healing, damage and more threat.

    Again I think you need to re-examine Safe Haven, it grants 5% block chance for 8 seconds. Thats 8 seconds and while you can spam Precept of Refuge you will lose a conviction point each time. That five point talent is the least appealing on the entire tree. On other issues I agree with you.

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    Plane Touched Shablo5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaw View Post
    Very nice thought out response, I agree with you on the majority of issues except two. The two tanking builds, I can see the appeal of those as each will have the absolute min/max possible for the purpose. However, in cases of adds or patrol pulls/botched pulls I would rather have Even Justice with the max points in Vengeful Justice. Its just too good a skill not to persue, not only is it the for those "oh damn" situations, it also grants a conviction point and healing. With points in Vengeful Justice you are making that ability even better, for the same amount of mana you can gain more healing, damage and more threat.

    Again I think you need to re-examine Safe Haven, it grants 5% block chance for 8 seconds. Thats 8 seconds and while you can spam Precept of Refuge you will lose a conviction point each time. That five point talent is the least appealing on the entire tree. On other issues I agree with you.
    If you're the tank you should be aware of such things as sloppy pulls, etc. **** goes wrong all the time, you don't say DAMNIT WRONG SPEC, or give up being the best at one thing to be Decent at all. You take them as they come. Attempting to take everything for every situation makes you mediocre at every situation. This right here is why you have multiple roles.

    About Safe Haven. This is up for debate I suppose. I sat at the tree and honestly I couldn't find putting the points into anything else that wasn't directly focused around blocking to begin with, unless you didn't want any utility (giving up reprieve/absolution). The points are there because it completes a 20% block, which isn't useless. The 5 points wouldn't be more useful anywhere else in the tree if you are going for a specific tanking type (like above, either AOE or single target).
    But for the sake of discussion, let's say you would run with the same spec as I posted above for single target without those 5points. The spec still had 28 points in it, and without it you'd end up maxing valor (Which at level 30 on an average toon would be about 80-90 block rating, about 100 probably on a level 35, which would be significantly less than 5%) or Commitment, which relies on block to begin with. Do you not see the redundancy of taking the points out of Safe Haven? Sure I guess if you have mana issues put them into a spec with Commitment with less chance to block, but in the end you'll turn around and put them back into safe haven/Valor because it's a talent that relies strictly on block rating, and Commitment would be insanely more useful than Unstoppable Force. If you feel your mitigation and survival is too hard in a dungeon, the dungeon is either: greater than your skill level or your healer's skill level.

    BY THE WAY, make note I am not saying UF is a bad talent. I just feel at the early stages I tanked perfectly well without it at all times as I did NOT have it but you can bet it will most likely be taken after some testing at higher level specs!
    Last edited by Shablo5; 02-01-2011 at 04:31 PM.

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    All I have to say from healing an over leveled justicar tank is that you really need to focus on the justicar's shortfall which is threat management. Aoe and single just isn't as easily controlled with a justicar as it is with a paladin or riftwalker. So the most important abilities you need are those that give you more agro.

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    I'm a little curious as to why you didnt take a 32nd point in Justicar for Interdict. It seems like a pretty beefy skill for both threat and utility. I dont see 1% END or Glory of the Chosen beating it.


    Do you find 5% END from druid beats a Warden Tertiary (instant heal for Flame Ward if going pur 2nd [which is one reason I am iffy on druid if not a primary focus] and 2 instant nukes for minor threat boosts early) or Pur/Sham as 2/3?


    I've been tinkering with a Just/Pur/Shaman build, but it doesnt work at a 35 cap. It gets to exploit the crap out of a lot of damage reduction / passive healing (though its notably weakened passive healing).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barraind View Post
    I'm a little curious as to why you didnt take a 32nd point in Justicar for Interdict. It seems like a pretty beefy skill for both threat and utility. I dont see 1% END or Glory of the Chosen beating it.


    Do you find 5% END from druid beats a Warden Tertiary (instant heal for Flame Ward if going pur 2nd [which is one reason I am iffy on druid if not a primary focus] and 2 instant nukes for minor threat boosts early) or Pur/Sham as 2/3?


    I've been tinkering with a Just/Pur/Shaman build, but it doesnt work at a 35 cap. It gets to exploit the crap out of a lot of damage reduction / passive healing (though its notably weakened passive healing).
    #1 - Didnt take glory of the chosen. 5% END Beats out a skill that has no use on bosses. I've LoS pulled every mob that needed it in FC (Havent noticed any others in IT or DSM that were casters). For interruption the skill is good and will be taken when we get farther down the tree (Which we will) however as far as now, since bosses are immune to interrupts, it's a useless skill for utility. Threat wise? It's a 10 second CD. Not at all worth giving up 5% endurance for something that's less effective than Bolt of Radiance.

    #2 I understand the point you make about flame ward. I was looking. You'll have at least 3 spell pushback on an average trash pull, which makes that 1sec cast at least 1.75s-ish on an average pull due to mob pushback. Plus, the heal itself is moot under Mien of Leadership. So basically you're spending 1.75S & a GCD (Global Cool Down) on something that will be cut in half and grant you 5% extra armor for spending an extra 5 points into that other than taking 5% damage reduction in Shaman or vital skills in Justicar.
    5% less Damage overall > 5% Extra armor when you don't have that much armor.

    #3 Purifier's healing would only be good if you don't sit in Mien of Leadership. Don't forget that skill, it's not a pushover lol. It'll nerf your healing to ****. We aren't healing tanks, unless you don't want to sit in Mien of Leadership. Anyone who debates differently obviously doesn't understand what skills to take or how our tanking works.

    At lower levels I would take Pur with no points in it for it's base mitigation(Shield), as I will include above in a level 20 spec.
    Last edited by Shablo5; 02-01-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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    how is a justicar tank?
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    Honestly, the only other trees ive skimmed are warrior tanking trees and they seem far superior. We're more utility tanks than real tanks, but that's just IMO as i've never tanked on a warrior/rogue to compare.
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    My only problem is you stating that Doctrine of Bliss is made **** by Mien of Leadership. Mien of Leadership's -40% to heals doesn't affect Doctrines. It only effects heals from other trees.

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    "... Reduces ALL healing done except by Salvation, Reparation, and Reprieve by 40%..." Doctrines do not fall into those three exclusions.
    Last edited by Shablo5; 02-01-2011 at 06:29 PM.
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    Prophet of Telara Skryth's Avatar
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    ...I could'a sworn... *looks at talent tree* ...huh...and so it doesn't...well I'll be damned...well that don't make sense...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russea38 View Post
    how is a justicar tank?
    How is a Justicar NOT a tank. I isn't a healer nor dps.It's tree is loaded with mitigation talents/abilities.

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    First of all, I have never tanked as a Justicar so I'm just going on feeling here

    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00rna.xhRqVuk0z.V0yh
    This is prob what I would try at lvl 35, trying to maximize defensive stats + melee crit

    And prob. aiming for something like this at max level
    http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=00...Eukbzz.V0Eh.xx
    Last edited by freche; 02-01-2011 at 07:47 PM.

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