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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Shaman Tuning

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    Rift Team
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    Default Upcoming Shaman Tuning

    Hi all,

    Shaman DPS is currently too low in the raid environment, and we'll be testing some improvements to it in the near future. Both Cold Blooded and Courage of the Panther will see increases in their damage contributions, while Deep Freeze will be gaining extra functionality to ensure it is usable against bosses with disjointed hitboxes.

    Long term, I want to look at bringing back the interaction between Punishing Strike and Eruption of Life. However, the above listed changes are more practical tuning adjustments I can make in the short-term. As always, feedback is welcome on these changes and any other aspect of the soul when this makes its way up to PTS.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Deep Freeze will be gaining extra functionality to ensure it is usable against bosses with disjointed hitboxes.
    Can we get this for Lucent Slash for Harbingers too?

    Also are you accounting for how everyone is nearing the CP cap now so Shaman should start performing significantly better now than compared to non-capped?
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  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    Tree:
    Tier 4
    Cold Blooded - 2 Points
    Increases your damage done by 3/6%.

    Tier 9
    Deep Freeze - 1 Point
    Instant - No Global Cooldown
    Stuns nearby enemies for 3s. Increases damage taken from the Cleric by 50%. Cooldown 1 minute

    Root:
    58 Points: Courage of the Panther
    Increases damage done by 10%. Allows abilities to ignore 5% of their targets' Armor and Resistance. Reduces mana costs by 5%. Lasts 1h.


    So looking at theses 3 talents Cold Blooded would be increases to 5/10%, Deep Freeze increases damage done by Cleric instead of damage taken and Courage of the Panther would increase damage done by 20% & Armor/Resists by 25%?


    Suggestions:
    Tree:
    Tier 4
    Brutalize - 3 Points
    Your Massive Blow causes the enemy to bleed, dealing an additional 15/30/45% damage over 3s. This damage is dealt instantly is the enemy already has your Brutalize.

    So once Massive Blow consumes Brutalize another Brutalize is applied.
    The idea is so that while Brutalize is active you can still use Massive Blow without losing any damage.


    Even though this next one isn't part of Shaman is it directly related to is damage.
    Root:
    4 Points: Combined Effort
    Deals x Earth damage and x Life damage. Buffs the Cleric for 15s, causing their single target damaging abilities to increase damage taken from the Cleric and the Cleric's pet by 5% for 5s. Cooldown 15s

    When looking at increasing Shaman damage you also have to look at the sub souls it uses to further increases it's damage.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 03-11-2015 at 11:29 AM. Reason: re-word of suggestion + extra
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    Ascendant forbiddenlake's Avatar
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    Lower the cooldown on Punishing Strike? Which would also improve Druid's priority list and DPS. ecru has a longer post about this somewhere in one of the cleric threads.

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    Telaran Kitkuri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninalways View Post
    Suggestions:
    Tree:
    Tier 4
    Brutalize - 3 Points
    Your Massive Blow causes the enemy to bleed, dealing an additional 15/30/45% damage over 3s. This damage is dealt instantly is the enemy already has your Brutalize.

    So once Massive Blow consumes Brutalize another Brutalize is applied.
    The idea is so that while Brutalize is active you can still use Massive Blow without losing any damage.
    ^This would actually be amazing if you only altered that for shaman , miss playing my favorite spec.

    P.S. interaction with EoL?, i'm being old and can't remember, but did punishing once apply EoL?


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    Can't you just shorten the Brutalize DoT to 2s so you don't murderkillexplode someone in PVP with double brutalize?

    AFAIK, the rotation is Deep freeze -> Massive -> Non-phys -> Massive reset, right?

    Having it explode for remainder damage at the end adds a spike on that last massive that'll hit people like trucks, too much to really counter in 1 GCD (IE, same reason people keep *****ing about Pyro despite nerfs).

    So turning it into a 2s DoT would be better, no? It'd stil be the same rotation the DoTs would just go:

    Deep freeze -> Massive -> Non-phys -> Massive reset
    No DoT -----> 2s DoT -> 1s DoT -> Final Tick before Massive hits again

    And would effectively do almost the same damage without the ridiculous spike at the end from exploding Brutalize on top of Massive during deep freeze.
    Last edited by evantide; 03-11-2015 at 12:25 PM.
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    Telaran Kitkuri's Avatar
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    it'll work basically as the BoD works now, which also blows people up in pvp, O.o.

    Even if it extended the duration by 3 second when brutalize occurs when it's already active (Reset DoT timer to 4 for example.)


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  8. #8
    Ascendant
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    Awesome!

    I really miss being melee, really hope it turns out to be something viable in raids.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara
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    Thanks, and dont forget to fix all the double diping bs while adjusting the dps.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Can't you just shorten the Brutalize DoT to 2s so you don't murderkillexplode someone in PVP with double brutalize?

    AFAIK, the rotation is Deep freeze -> Massive -> Non-phys -> Massive reset, right?

    Having it explode for remainder damage at the end adds a spike on that last massive that'll hit people like trucks, too much to really counter in 1 GCD (IE, same reason people keep *****ing about Pyro despite nerfs).

    So turning it into a 2s DoT would be better, no? It'd stil be the same rotation the DoTs would just go:

    Deep freeze -> Massive -> Non-phys -> Massive reset
    No DoT -----> 2s DoT -> 1s DoT -> Final Tick before Massive hits again

    And would effectively do almost the same damage without the ridiculous spike at the end from exploding Brutalize on top of Massive during deep freeze.
    df/jolt(or glacial)/ps/nonphys/mb usually yeah. brutalize ticks arent instant so you only end up clipping one brutalize tick with mb/jolt/mb. if brutalize "stacked" like symbol of corruption we would only end up with one extra tick, so it wouldn't make that much of a difference. i suppose it'd be nice if it was 2s though.

    i hope deep freeze's extra functionality doesn't change the way in that it increases all damage taken during it's 3 second window, as making sure all dots and procs are up during the deep freeze window to maximize dps adds a bit of skill to the shaman rotation that otherwise wouldn't matter as much if it were changed.

    immediate changes to make us competitive are great though. we're in a weird spot where we can be competitive (maybe?) if shroud of agony works on a specific encounter and the stars align along with every raid cd, our cd block, and a whole lot of lucky massive blow crits, but otherwise forget it. it's a struggle to come within ~5-8% of top specs with an absolutely perfect rotation and perfect execution of our cd block.

    in the future i'd like to see us moved away from the faith's freedom mastery entirely, possibly with changes to the lower part of the druid tree to provide better scaling for weapon attacks specifically and/or changes to swift judgment to bring it out ahead of sanction/vex, maybe with an extra bonus to the damage increase on physical attacks we get from frostbite.
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    When will druid get some real Love? geez
    Last edited by Dahbee; 03-11-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    df/jolt(or glacial)/ps/nonphys/mb usually yeah.
    oops i meant mb/jolt/ps

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahbee View Post
    When will druid get some real Love? geez
    well right now we only have one real competitive raid dps spec. shaman is up there but it isn't exactly worth using on anything but a few encounters, and shaman was our best single target spec throughout most of SL (as it should be, since it's melee).

    druid is a pet spec and having raided with a pet spec as a rogue, it isn't something i want to have to do ever again. bugs with pets (like the ranger pet dying during t3 gsb) aren't always fixed. i'm not saying druid doesn't need help, but i'd hope getting shaman competitive with nbsin, para, and the upcoming harb changes is more of a priority.
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    Thank you for working to improve Shaman.

    Since the primary goal is to improve DPS and not soul functionality, please leave the Shaman rotation as is. The current Shaman rotation is perfectly fine and there is no reason to make changes that cause the entire cleric population to have to create new guides, new macros, new rotations, and spend hours re-learning the soul.

    Your initial improvements look to be on the right track. I look forward to testing them on PTS.

  14. #14
    Rift Chaser Dahbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Hawk View Post
    Hi all,

    Shaman DPS is currently too low in the raid environment, and we'll be testing some improvements to it in the near future. Both Cold Blooded and Courage of the Panther will see increases in their damage contributions, while Deep Freeze will be gaining extra functionality to ensure it is usable against bosses with disjointed hitboxes.

    Long term, I want to look at bringing back the interaction between Punishing Strike and Eruption of Life. However, the above listed changes are more practical tuning adjustments I can make in the short-term. As always, feedback is welcome on these changes and any other aspect of the soul when this makes its way up to PTS.

    Thanks!
    Punishing Strike applies Combined Effort ( forgot if it did the damage portion too, I dont pay attention much anymore), what interaction will it do for EoL?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitkuri View Post
    ^This would actually be amazing if you only altered that for shaman , miss playing my favorite spec.

    P.S. interaction with EoL?, i'm being old and can't remember, but did punishing once apply EoL?
    Essence Strike refreshes EoL but doesnt apply it,

    With the recent issues with instant casts, I've had to move Essence Strike up my list a notch and PS down one.
    Last edited by Dahbee; 03-11-2015 at 06:03 PM.
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  15. #15
    Rift Chaser Dahbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecru View Post
    oops i meant mb/jolt/ps



    well right now we only have one real competitive raid dps spec. shaman is up there but it isn't exactly worth using on anything but a few encounters, and shaman was our best single target spec throughout most of SL (as it should be, since it's melee).

    druid is a pet spec and having raided with a pet spec as a rogue, it isn't something i want to have to do ever again. bugs with pets (like the ranger pet dying during t3 gsb) aren't always fixed. i'm not saying druid doesn't need help, but i'd hope getting shaman competitive with nbsin, para, and the upcoming harb changes is more of a priority.
    I'm sorry YOU had a bad experience with pet classes, I like Druid very much, guess I wont be raiding much then, besides, I dont want to be part of the cookie cutter raid classes.
    Last edited by Dahbee; 03-11-2015 at 06:10 PM.
    "Just tune in, turn off, drop out, drop in, switch off, switch on, and explode." TrollBait goes here.
    Dahbee's Law: No matter what gets discussed, voted on, or put into the game, someone will whine.
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