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Thread: This may be a little premature...

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser
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    Default Possible changes to clerics

    This may be a little bit premature, and I know that alpha notes are unofficial, but they tend to ring a bit of truth. That being said, I am quite concerned about the possibility of having 36-point abilities for clerics. What this basically tells me is 'if you do not invest this many points into this soul, you will not get the most out of it.' It doesn't seem promising if you're a fan of picking and choosing abilities from 3 different souls that match your playstyle. Doesn't seem like other classes have this problem.

    I am a big contributor to experimenting with unusual soul/ability combinations, and having hybrid classes. With these potential implementations, I am afraid that we will be stuck with the typical healer role, ie stand back and heal. Now, some souls have 36-point abilities with increases to damage. However, why would someone choose a dps cleric over a dps mage or dps rogue? Which leaves healing cleric as the more promising option. Hooray...

    Additionally, adding 36+ points into one soul leaves very few points for other souls, which will leave us out of good tier 3 or 4 abilities on other souls.

    And why would you want to spend ALL those points into only one soul just to get the 51-point root ability? You have to put a lot of points into a lot of junk tree abilities to reach higher root abilities which don't really seem to be worth it.

    This doesn't even mention the major talent tree nerfs (sooooo many talent tree point increases and stat reductions).

    What are people's thoughts?

    And I don't know what the policy is on linking Alpha notes, so if you find them of your own accord then so be it.
    Last edited by Mato; 01-31-2011 at 07:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Plane Walker Rivellana's Avatar
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    I think...they're unofficial and there will be many changes in both alpha and beta to all of the classes before release.

    If those leaks are accurate, I'm sure the devs had a good reason for doing it. I'm not gonna freak out over anything. I'm just super excited for Friday to get here already so we can beta!

  3. #3
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    I think it should have been 32 points, with bonus for more after that. 36 is too much for the bonus and still allowing room for creativity with the souls.

    But it won't pigeon hole clerics into just healers. Healer souls will probably get a bonus to healing after deep investment, just like shaman and druid are getting damage boosts for deep investments. This will just means that clerics at the base level will have less healing and damage, but once they pass a certain point your damage if 36+ shaman might be comparable to a rogue, and your healing as a warden 36+ will be super healing.

    It just lets you be more specialized....good thing overall. They can do the same for say Justicar, and after you invest 36 points its obvious you are tanking, and so you get bonuses to block and stam....and this way they don't need to worry about shamans or wardens that are also very tanky.

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    I'm guessing many of the changes were things they were planning or were considering to do anyways.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synthisis View Post
    I think it should have been 32 points, with bonus for more after that. 36 is too much for the bonus and still allowing room for creativity with the souls.

    But it won't pigeon hole clerics into just healers. Healer souls will probably get a bonus to healing after deep investment, just like shaman and druid are getting damage boosts for deep investments. This will just means that clerics at the base level will have less healing and damage, but once they pass a certain point your damage if 36+ shaman might be comparable to a rogue, and your healing as a warden 36+ will be super healing.

    It just lets you be more specialized....good thing overall. They can do the same for say Justicar, and after you invest 36 points its obvious you are tanking, and so you get bonuses to block and stam....and this way they don't need to worry about shamans or wardens that are also very tanky.
    I can see what you're saying. But, for example, if I want a dps soul (ie shaman or inquisitor) and want to group it with a healer soul (ie warden, purifier), then you've gimped yourself on both accounts for the most part. This seems to be making you decide whether you want to be a pure dps cleric, or a pure dps healer and less of a hybrid. What is wrong with a tanky shaman? My current build is one of those, but if I'm in pvp and playing against a group of good players, the playing ground seems pretty even (rogues/mages with higher dps and burst damage than clerics, warriors with insane health/armor, healers with lots of heals). A tanky shaman will never be as tanky as a warrior, nor dish out as much dps as a rogue or mage.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker Elijah's Avatar
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    Look, the investment of points is for you to decide. What Rift did, if the notes are what they did is give us even more options. I was hesitant to go 51 points into any one soul, some abilities just aren't worth it. But if putting 51 points in a cleric soul lets me come close to mage dps or warrior melee dps than good. I want to try dps with those cleric souls. If you want to splash souls for a very unique combo of abilities that are well suited or have synergy good. I don't see how any one could possible have a problem with this change. The only problem I see with this is a lot of people rolling cleric souls.

  7. #7
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    There will probably still be alot of room for hybrid specs 1-50 and in PVE. You can have the Shaman thats tanky with offhealing, or the Healer cleric thats also got good ranged dmg and instants.....but most likely for Raids you will want to be specialized and that's going to be how we get there. It might also promote players to pick up that last row of "root" buffs that typically are big group/raid type buffs.

    PVP wise 1-50 again lots of hybrid options, but supposedly at lvl 50 we will have to rely on a PVP soul to be competitive meaning you only get 2 souls to build from and so stuck with a specific role like dps, healing, or support.

  8. #8
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    I think it is a great idea, that way clerics can choose to specialize in their role at high levels if they go deep into a soul and skills wont have to be nerfed, to keep balanced or hybrid specs in check.
    Last edited by Niminion; 02-01-2011 at 01:55 AM.

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    Rift Disciple pokett's Avatar
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    i'm only speculating, but i expect them to add this mechanic for the other classes as well - i think they only pushed the cleric changes out first. i see it as a way to reward specialization, since spreading points out among the 3 souls already has such an advantage. and because we can have more than one role, i don't see this as being much of a problem.

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    Champion of Telara Jazebel's Avatar
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    Well it surely put a big dent in 33/33 hybrid build I was planning for my dps build.

    My healing build is quite happy with the changes though, as I was planning on going deep into one soul to begin with anyway.

    Looks like we are going to make some big decisions now and wait to see how it all works out.

    The good or bad thing is, in beta6 we won't get there to test them, as cap is 35. So in beta6 we can still play with our hybrid builds without loosing too much benefits.

    But looking at the bigger picture, if you do decide going deep into one soul, you won't have the 31 top tree ability of one of the souls, and it's going to be a gamble for me between the shaman crit buff or the druid pet.

    If using both is strong enough to offset the bonus' you get from going 36points into one soul, I'll stick to my 33/33 build I had in mind.
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    Ascendant paspinall's Avatar
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    i can see immediatly why they have done it is what I think.

    Currently the reason many cleric builds are overpowered is the fact that we can hybridise with decent DPS and a good amount of healing. By making th ebest dps require the full 51 points in a tree then they can lessen either the DPS or the healing relative to one another.

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  12. #12
    Champion of Telara Jazebel's Avatar
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    I don't know, I"ve been reading them quite alot now, and I'm not sure really if I'm gonna deep into druid or shaman, tbh. When you go deep into shaman you will hit harder, when you go deep into druid your spammable skill will hit harder and your pet's do more dmg/healing.

    We all know how good the crit buff will be, and if the druid pet is anything good at 31, I'll still get both and forget about those 36 root abilities.

    It will still be a good mix of dps, and if you go full druid, they take out your pet, you wasted all those points, if they stun or silence or root you as a shaman, that extra dmg won't do you no good.

    Going both, you will still have your crit buff when they take out your pet for extra dps, when they lock the shaman you will still have the pet hitting your target.

    I haven't really checked the healing builds, seems like Sentinel gets a boost to Healing Invocation which I don't use, Warden might be the only class I'll go in over 36 points, cause in my healing build I'm only going up to 20 points into Purifier and 0 points into Sentinel.

    As for Inquisitor/Cabalist they do the same so no loss there which way go, so really with these changes, the only real choice is the melee souls Shaman/Druid.

    But like I said above, if the pet is any good, I'll take both the top 31 skills, if the pet really blows, I'm going full shaman with druid passives.
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  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Tiberius1's Avatar
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    I find that for Cleric I am happy with a 20/26/20 build (the souls don't really matter here) as that mix I chose was exactly what I wanted for my playstyle.

    I currently have a rogue at 20th level and I find it (again, my playstyle) very necessary to go fairly deep in at least one soul to make a good build. I would suggest playing around with the various Soul planners and trying to make a build that works for you (which is how I know what I need to do for these Callings).

  14. #14
    Ascendant paspinall's Avatar
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    I am not sure how i will end up speccing to be fair especially with the changes but i dont see them being a problem i am sure i will find specs I like.

    shame they are just out of being able to get a 36 point ability and a 31 tree for a second soul.

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  15. #15
    Shadowlander Alkir's Avatar
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    pretty sure that is the intention awhile ago they mentioned they were wanting to make it appealing to go further into a tree then 32ish points in. so those who like 1 tree builds can have a bonus.

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