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Thread: Cleric Damage Mitigation

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Kinladar's Avatar
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    Default Cleric Damage Mitigation

    So, my main tank cleric spec, 61 Just/Shaman/Inq, 2386 Guard, 5138 block, 202k Armor, food/vial/self buffed at 140k.

    I am staking nearly twice as much damage as the VK tank I am running with in our guild on the second boss trio in Rhen of Fate. It only seems a recent development as well. Our VK has less armor by about 10k, about 2k guard, 10k less hp, about the same block.

    Is anyone else experiencing these issues? Ungolok didn't seem out of line when I tanked i wednesday.
    Kinladar - Rogue - Tank And Then Some
    Jinxt - Cleric Tank -- Jumedorm - Warrior Tank - (Hey, I sense a trend here)
    DAWN OF TERROR - [FAEBLIGHT]
    http://dawnrift.guildlaunch.com/


  2. #2
    Shadowlander
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    It might be connected to how you do the boss. If you are tanking the boss with the most mania stacks all the time and the orbs go to the other tank it shouldnt be that suprising.And Justicar isnt really the tank you go to for mitigation, you use them for collecting adds and the passive healing on some fights, but taking 2 times more dmg isnt normal.

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Kinladar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakaishi View Post
    It might be connected to how you do the boss. If you are tanking the boss with the most mania stacks all the time and the orbs go to the other tank it shouldnt be that suprising.And Justicar isnt really the tank you go to for mitigation, you use them for collecting adds and the passive healing on some fights, but taking 2 times more dmg isnt normal.
    We actually did a little test, and let the stacks pile up to the same levels on both of us. We wanted to eliminate stacks and heals as a variable.

    Same number of mania stacks per target, VK was taking a little less than half the amount of damage as I was. One healer was Physician, other Puri. Similar gear build outs.

    There is something broken from my point of view in this case.
    Kinladar - Rogue - Tank And Then Some
    Jinxt - Cleric Tank -- Jumedorm - Warrior Tank - (Hey, I sense a trend here)
    DAWN OF TERROR - [FAEBLIGHT]
    http://dawnrift.guildlaunch.com/


  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    What were you using to assess the damage taken? I'm not aware of any ingame parser that will show the actual damage taken numbers, they only show it after absorbs, so a puri vs a phys healer, the target healed by puri will show alot less damage taken.

    Was the puri keeping Sign of Faith on both tanks, if not thats another 7% damage reduction on his tank and not on the other perhaps.

    Was the VK using his own absorbs?
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


  5. #5
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    There is no possible way to directly compare tanks and damage mitigation in real raid situations.

    The reason for this is:

    The difference in mobs tanked.
    The RnG involved with every fight when tanking mobs.
    The Difference in healer types on tanks.
    The Difference in heals due to different encounters.
    The Difference in heals due to RnG.
    On and On and On.



    So, the best you can do is mathematically analyze damage mitigation and hope for the best. That being said, some people have already done this, and have made lists out there.

  6. #6
    Rift Disciple Kinladar's Avatar
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    Granted, what we have to parse and log data with is somewhat lacking in detail.

    But I will say this, the healers we have even when swapping tanks for heals stated that they were blowing a far larger number of cooldowns and abilities on my cleric versus the warrior/vk.

    The main reason for this post was to see if anyone else had noticed similar issues. I can finish gearing my rogue, or warrior if that is what it takes to stabilize things. I'd heard many rumors and comments that clerics were not as solid in NT as other classes but didn't really think so. Now after analyzing what we have seen in raid content I am starting to think there is a balance issue that may need to be addressed.
    Kinladar - Rogue - Tank And Then Some
    Jinxt - Cleric Tank -- Jumedorm - Warrior Tank - (Hey, I sense a trend here)
    DAWN OF TERROR - [FAEBLIGHT]
    http://dawnrift.guildlaunch.com/


  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    Clerics do take slightly more damage than Void Knights and require slightly more healing. However, the differences are still fairly minor (around 5-7%, depending on exactly which metrics you're comparing).

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Kinladar's Avatar
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    I've been using the second boss area in Rhen of Fate as an example since you have 2 being tanked regularly. We're going to look at Bulf and maybe swap back and forth on some Ungolok parses to see what comes from it now that we have a fresh reset.

    5-7% would be reasonable, but we're seeing for some reason a much higher percentage, sometimes 30-40% more, both via act or super meter logs. It started out with the healers complaining about how hard it was to keep my cleric alive, yet I outgear my VK tanking partner by maybe 5-10% stats wise.

    I understand the general jist of a cleric tank is they bring some other benefits, an extra brez, passive group heals that can help a bit, alternate builds that can ae cleanse, purge, etc... there's several variants. That utility generally has some kind of trade off and that little extra healing required seemed fair for many things.

    I've tanked a ton of stuff through Storm Legion on this cleric so I feel I have a fairly good grasp of the class and all.

    Anyhow, we'll keep monitoring it and see what this week holds.
    Kinladar - Rogue - Tank And Then Some
    Jinxt - Cleric Tank -- Jumedorm - Warrior Tank - (Hey, I sense a trend here)
    DAWN OF TERROR - [FAEBLIGHT]
    http://dawnrift.guildlaunch.com/


  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    It's possible that the other tank is just doing a much better job of using his cooldowns proactively than you are, which would make you spikier and squishier in comparison.

  10. #10
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Llokii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    It's possible that the other tank is just doing a much better job of using his cooldowns proactively than you are, which would make you spikier and squishier in comparison.
    I was gonna say this as well. Having played both Warrior and Cleric tanks, VK's have a decent amount of shields they can use. I haven't played my warrior since SL, but I know that there are shields they have on 15 sec, 30 sec, and 1 min CD's. (correction, I just looked this up and it's 45 seconds to 2 mins now).

    As a cleric, the only shield we have is our 1 min CD. If you're taking that much more damage, use your Doctrine of Glory on CD once you have established aggro.

    So, in comparison, a VK has 5 shields they can use compared to our 1 shield. This could be making a big difference in damage taken.
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  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinladar View Post
    I've been using the second boss area in Rhen of Fate as an example since you have 2 being tanked regularly. We're going to look at Bulf and maybe swap back and forth on some Ungolok parses to see what comes from it now that we have a fresh reset.

    5-7% would be reasonable, but we're seeing for some reason a much higher percentage, sometimes 30-40% more, both via act or super meter logs. It started out with the healers complaining about how hard it was to keep my cleric alive, yet I outgear my VK tanking partner by maybe 5-10% stats wise.

    I understand the general jist of a cleric tank is they bring some other benefits, an extra brez, passive group heals that can help a bit, alternate builds that can ae cleanse, purge, etc... there's several variants. That utility generally has some kind of trade off and that little extra healing required seemed fair for many things.

    I've tanked a ton of stuff through Storm Legion on this cleric so I feel I have a fairly good grasp of the class and all.

    Anyhow, we'll keep monitoring it and see what this week holds.
    This kind testing will never really tell you anything because it will invariably we short lived and subject to alot of RNG, if you want to do this sort of testing I would go use the tank dumbies on PTS.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


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