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Thread: A suggestion for Salvation

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default A suggestion for Salvation

    - Increase base healing by 50%

    - Reparation - Additionally increases the critical hit chance of Salvation by 5/10/15/20/25

    - Healer's Creed - Additionally Increases Salvation healing by 25%/50%
    (At 16/17 points would prevent O/P hybridization with DPS builds)

  2. #2
    Ascendant Zehne's Avatar
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    LoL?

    So you're suggesting that we should be able to Tank experts in Expert Gear without a healer?

  3. #3
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    to be honest I agree Salvation needs looking at because currently it offers nothing to the soul in terms of its main focus (tank). sure it offers some fluff heals here and there but overall it was primarily a threat builder until the last major update where it is now become laughable in most situations. but this needs to done carefully to no upset the balance(ish) we currently have.

    personally I think Salvation is fine for the tanking portion of the soul but maybe some potential could be unlocked via Mein of Honour (which is next to useless currently) and possibly hide it further into the tree to stop super hybrids. leave it open to gain other healing utilities from other souls (aoe cleanse etc) but make it so you cant have a super DPS/healer hybrid or a healer that completely replaces the other souls (Senticar anyone?), perhaps a "jack of all trades" kind of setup with some good AoE and ST heals along with some splash making it perfect for small group content (limit heals to 5 people?) but then not as powerful as Puri or Warden.

    id sugest something that allows Mein of Honour to boost Salvation healing to a reasonable level (maybe a 75% boost?) and allow DoB to be cast on other party members, while limiting DoL to your immediate group i.e. if in a raid your in group 3, only group 3 get these heals (opens up some situational tactics). this along with lowering your threat by 50% means that you cant abuse this while being the tank but can be an option to support on a duo tank fight when you have nothing to do (reduce shared CD to 10s maybe?). id say moving this to 40 points should be fair or even swap the positions of Hammer of Faith and MoH, so low level tanks have an AoE ranged attack.

    this gives 35/36 points left over to hybrid into other souls for added perks, abilities and passives while still keeping Salvation potential locked into the Justicar abilities/attacks and deep enough to stop super hybrids like we had before 1.11/SL. also since a lot of the other healing builds potential is just out of reach then those souls wont get completely replaced in raids where your specific role requires the best option.

    P.S. really, now that Salvation no longer generates threat it should be removed from the tank soul and maybe convert Sentinel into the old style Senticar, or something similar. then boost the tanks CD's or add more to bring them in line with the amount of CD's the other tanks have.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    This would cause something that happened in pre -SL to happen, the era of the -icar...Shamicar, Inquisicar, and Cabicar. With the new souls that were not previously playable pre-SL, I am sure a Defilicar, Ocarlicar would also make their way to the rift forums. With what these combinations could do, it was almost required you have -icar as your off soul for clerics in raids to pump out decent heals while dpsing. I really doubt trion wants to make a full circle for clerics back to this previous state. Although this would probably bring back Senticar, one of the more fun healing specs that Clerics had but doubtful.

    Edit- I did not see previous post before posting. That idea of moving it to Sentinel would be awesome and I would fully support it. As it stands, sentinel is an expert/pvp heal spec. This change to it could bring it inline to make it raid worthy, maybe...
    Last edited by Biomed; 11-11-2014 at 09:08 AM.

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomed View Post
    This would cause something that happened in pre -SL to happen, the era of the -icar...Shamicar, Inquisicar, and Cabicar. With the new souls that were not previously playable pre-SL, I am sure a Defilicar, Ocarlicar would also make their way to the rift forums. With what these combinations could do, it was almost required you have -icar as your off soul for clerics in raids to pump out decent heals while dpsing. I really doubt trion wants to make a full circle for clerics back to this previous state. Although this would probably bring back Senticar, one of the more fun healing specs that Clerics had but doubtful.
    No it wouldn't. It wouldn't even put Salvation back to where it was in 2.8 using the Justicar Crystal relative to current hit point pools for non Justicar specs. No one is going to offspec into Reparation with a DPS spec and no one could get a 61 point DPS ability from their main spec if they put points into Healer's Creed. For DPS it would mean an increase in Salvation healing from 500 to 750 or so.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomed View Post
    This would cause something that happened in pre -SL to happen, the era of the -icar...Shamicar, Inquisicar, and Cabicar. With the new souls that were not previously playable pre-SL, I am sure a Defilicar, Ocarlicar would also make their way to the rift forums. With what these combinations could do, it was almost required you have -icar as your off soul for clerics in raids to pump out decent heals while dpsing. I really doubt trion wants to make a full circle for clerics back to this previous state. Although this would probably bring back Senticar, one of the more fun healing specs that Clerics had but doubtful.
    the main reason those pre-SL builds existed is because Salvation healed the same regardless of which soul the ability was from. plus we did not have the gift system that severly gimps DPS/Heal/Tank if specced into a tree with the wrong gift. this and the fact that back then Salvation was able to proc other buffs and passives like Trinkets, Essences and buffs like Wrathful Exuberance (cant remember buffs back then that triggered from Salv but after 1.11 WE did proc from Salv), which gave extra boosts to its OP potential.

    that is why id suggest locking the healing potential away from pure DPS meaning a specific role would have to be made for hybridising rather than excess points put in there for passive healing. locking it behind MoH but keeping the mechanics within the Justicar soul, speccing into other souls for the passives and complimentary abilities gives a casual all round option to use outside of raids/progression. either a 40pt root or the 41pt tree ability slot should be plenty deep enough to stop some OP hybrid from appearing, while giving players enough points to pick up things like AoE cleanses and a CD or 2 from the other souls.

    id be all for changing Salvation to only proc off of Justicar abilities and once per attack rather than per mob hit if it means we can make it useful, while keeping it balanced and reducing the OP hybrid potential in favor of a dedicated build to utilise its potential.

  7. #7
    Plane Touched starg's Avatar
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    I still think salvation should generate normal threat, and not 0.

    The healing is laughable sure, but still a plus, i would like to see it buffed, from 800 to maybe 2k, to account for the huge HP boost we had on 3.0

  8. #8
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    Gotta say Salvation I currently LOVE. Sure it could use a boost but then again none of the healing souls got a boost either so really its in the same place its been in.

    I work Salvation into all my builds cause I like to heal. Currently my Warden build gets the largest use out of it from Geyser spam. Geyser + Salvation is amazing healing in 5 mans faster than my casted AOE heal and cheaper and almost as good as my instant AOE heal that I can spam non-stop and produce damage and even reduce the groups damage by 2% while maintaining dangers of the deep.

    My Inquisitor uses Salvation as well. I have even worked BoJ into my rotation so when its up im casting it as it doubles the healing. I find Salvation really nice with Circle of Oblivion(think that's what its called).

    You also have to remember even though its a weak heal its healing 5 people on a NON healing build. 6 if you have RM. Salvation currently adds good flavor to DPS specs to me and is even greater on healing specs played right.

    It allows you to jump into groups and feel like your contributing more than just damage.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeithe View Post
    Gotta say Salvation I currently LOVE. Sure it could use a boost but then again none of the healing souls got a boost either so really its in the same place its been in.
    True the healing builds didn't get a boost in the same way but the heals don't feel useless, they fell the same as in SL with the lower HP pools. my heals seem to grant the same amount of %hp to a damaged tank and in all honesty haven't noticed the increased hp pools as a healer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeithe View Post
    I work Salvation into all my builds cause I like to heal. Currently my Warden build gets the largest use out of it from Geyser spam. Geyser + Salvation is amazing healing in 5 mans faster than my casted AOE heal and cheaper and almost as good as my instant AOE heal that I can spam non-stop and produce damage and even reduce the groups damage by 2% while maintaining dangers of the deep.

    My Inquisitor uses Salvation as well. I have even worked BoJ into my rotation so when its up im casting it as it doubles the healing. I find Salvation really nice with Circle of Oblivion(think that's what its called)..
    I too work Salvation into my Warden build for Geyser since Bosuns Blessing doesn't proc from Geyser so I make do with Salv. since the mana reduction im quite happy to sit there and spam Geyser while refreshing SS/HS on myself (for Ripple and SE) when none of my CD's are required and keeps people topped off while maintaining my DotD.

    Salvation for Inquisitor is bad practice though in all but a levelling/solo build. the heals from it are not really worth the DPS loss you take to get it. sure I can see what your saying about the helpfulness but overall the damage most people take in AoE is fairly large and the healer can usually cope fine without the 1-2 ticks you provide before they heal the group. I especially disagree with you about CoO being good for Salv, sure it procs upto 5x per tick but at 1/4 of the ST damage proc per tick so in affect you get the same heal (because lets face it the other DPS usually thin the crowd fairly quick) not to mention the fact that CoO is still very weak compared to your ST DPS (I could probably beat your CoO DPS, on 5 targets, with my ST).

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeithe View Post
    You also have to remember even though its a weak heal its healing 5 people on a NON healing build. 6 if you have RM. Salvation currently adds good flavor to DPS specs to me and is even greater on healing specs played right.

    It allows you to jump into groups and feel like your contributing more than just damage.
    maybe if you had a group of 10 Clerics, in a 10man raid, including 8 DPS all running Salvation in their DPS builds you may notice the effects but the lone Cleric in the crowd throwing out an 800 heal on people with 65-70k plus hp pools it will go unnoticed, but you being 3-4k DPS lower on the meters, because of the soul point choices, may be noticed.

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