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Thread: Cleric tanking

  1. #1
    Fia
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    Default Cleric tanking

    So I've been tanking some expert dungeons these past few days and thought that with better gear I'd be easier to heal. Seems like I was wrong. I have 116,5k HP selfbuffed, 720 Guard and 950 Hit now and I still die on quite a few trash groups and bosses. Our healers just can't seem to keep me alive. For Empyreum Core trash even 2 healers (puri+medic) are not able to keep me alive (or just barely). Yes I do use all my cooldowns (I have been tanking for quite some time, so I think I'm at least not the worst tank out there) and I have all the tanking masteries (receive 3% more heal, 5% more guard mastery etc.). Is there any way I could further reduce the incoming damage? Or did anything dramatically change for tanking in 3.0? Just want to check that I'm not doing any major errors, any suggestions and/or help are very appreciated. :)

    Thanks. :D
    Last edited by Fia; 10-26-2014 at 02:11 PM.
    Fiia@Typhiria | Asthea@Hailol
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  2. #2
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    Justicar has a few tricks up its sleeve to assist itself for tanking.

    The following abilities are more about timing than anything.

    Reprieve - This is an obvious ability, simply make it your last effort to stay alive.

    Just Defense - So when you hit 50% for the 1st time pop this.

    Resplendent Embrace is good to Start off the fight if you know or think your going to need it. Reason being is the 2 min cd. If the fight is long enough you can cast it again.

    You also wanna make sure you have at least 5 points in Shaman for the points in damage reduction.

    Maybe make sure your simply not pulling too much at once or also the issue could be your healer.

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    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    For smooth run at the moment your dps'ers need to help out you an the healer by CC'ing the mobs. debilitates in particular make a huge difference in experts at the moment. Doesn't sound like your doing anything wrong to me, its just the way the dungeons are tuned. Getting the trash down is more of a team effort now.
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    ive been tanking all these experts so far and I will agree that they hit VERY hard. the example you gave with Empyrean Core trash is some of the hardest especially just before the Doctor boss. a nice little trick for trash packs is to take a Cabalist or Saboteur along, get them to chain stun the enemies after the healer(s) and you run out of CD's to allow for your tricks to return. if this isn't enough then you can try kiting them with help from the Sabs AoE snare which should give you time to start moving away them run towards the entrance, the DPS should be able to burn them without pulling agro if done late enough (after your CD's are burnt).

    some places and fights we can get away with a Puri healer only but most I usually try to have a Puri + Chloro so that my HP is topped off asap plus the Chloro can cover the AoE healing since Puri's have limited tools and no GCD's to spare (since im taking a beating).

    what the Devs failed to realise is that early on we have as little as 100k HP and some of the trash packs take 50-75% of that per second. now im not calling for a nerf, but a slight adjustment to the abilities that the enemies use. currently that trash I mentioned above the little adds hit me for around 16-18k per second per mob... with 4 of them that's 64-72k damage per second im taking... no way can you expect a healer to keep up with that especially a warrior or chloro since they are reactive healers. also can something be done about the Assasins in the Citadel? they like to run up to me mid combat with a trash pack and smack me for 70k in 1 hit and stun me....seems a little too much as it usually is the death of the me, either the killing blow or the stun,to stop me using CD's, and there is nothing I can do to stop that since they are stealth until they strike. only thing I can do is hope the healer(s) can keep me topped up in time for the hit.

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    I would think Defiler is nothing short of the most important support to assist in keeping you alive just a little longer.

    Also being that your pulling packs MAYBE having the group pick a target and burn it down on your pull to lessen the damage by at least 1 target then have them go AOE crazy.

    Also all HP pools were bloated a lil in 3.0 update so that should help a little bit.

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    Fia
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    Thanks for the help, I'll test around a bit when I'm back home. :D
    Last edited by Fia; 10-27-2014 at 05:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeithe View Post
    I would think Defiler is nothing short of the most important support to assist in keeping you alive just a little longer.

    Also being that your pulling packs MAYBE having the group pick a target and burn it down on your pull to lessen the damage by at least 1 target then have them go AOE crazy.

    Also all HP pools were bloated a lil in 3.0 update so that should help a little bit.
    Defiler does indeed help but unfortunately the links were nerfed to 5, 10, 15 and 20% (Necro got nerfed to 15% as well) so not as much as it used to be. plus running quite a lot of these Experts over the weekend, I found that running a Defiler seemed to be less helpful than running a Chloro because even with the link the Defiler was spending all their time healing instead of doing damage. a Chloro was able to kick out consistent heals to top me off as well as providing some AoE healing for the group all while doing more damage than a Defiler had time for.

    While the Defiler is good and has the best CD in the game for healing, its overall healing support isn't good enough for the current Expert runs since the damage is coming in consistently and is in VERY high chunks. if we had a more reliable FG stacking system rather than a chance system (the mastery now brings the 20% link to the same chance it was before 3.0) Defiler would make a good support for these runs but in its current state id take a Chloro or Physician instead.

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    As others have said, the trash in EC and CoI are significantly over-tuned. If I am communicating with my tank, i can solo heal the trash in EC as puri, but only until the CDs where out. This requires great aoe dps. The easiest method for that trash as justicar is to pull it back to the previous room where you fight the twins (EC) and just continually run around the room in circles. You dont even need snares or stuns, and super easy to heal.

    Side note: the dungeons are tuned such that when your party is ready for the 10-man, you should be able to tank and solo heal everything.
    Thetoxicwaltz@Greybriar

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    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    This trash isn't designed to just tank and spank. It is all chain CC'able for a reason. Crack out the cabalist and a sabs and all this nasty trash just stands there like rabbits in the headlights while you blow it away.

    I'd even go so far as to say that for alot of the packs tank and healer are not even needed just 5x AoE dps with coordinated CC.
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    i think the main issue here is not necessarily that the packs are tougher than the healer and tank combined. its that you have to rely on having those CC tools and coordinated CD uses. as the game currently stands every class can do every role is completely false, can you imagine trying to get a group of 5 warriors through EC? somehow I don't think they have enough tools to cope with the trash packs then there is their healing soul, which is useless in ST healing situations. same can be said for a group of 5 mages, their heals don't stack and, afaik, they have little mass CC apart from a few squirrels which means they wont be using optimised builds.

    as it stands now you need 2 specific classes that can play specific roles, Sab/Cab, Puri/Phys. you have any combination of those and you should be fine but without them you are fairly screwed. I don't mind it being hard, infact id like it to be a little harder (just not unforgiving with mechanics hitting for 80-90% tank HP) just as long as we have the tools to tackle the issue with, because currently if you get the wrong classes in your group you might as well leave and re-queue hoping for a better team setup that has the right tools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fliptrik View Post
    i think the main issue here is not necessarily that the packs are tougher than the healer and tank combined. its that you have to rely on having those CC tools and coordinated CD uses. as the game currently stands every class can do every role is completely false, can you imagine trying to get a group of 5 warriors through EC? somehow I don't think they have enough tools to cope with the trash packs then there is their healing soul, which is useless in ST healing situations. same can be said for a group of 5 mages, their heals don't stack and, afaik, they have little mass CC apart from a few squirrels which means they wont be using optimised builds.

    as it stands now you need 2 specific classes that can play specific roles, Sab/Cab, Puri/Phys. you have any combination of those and you should be fine but without them you are fairly screwed. I don't mind it being hard, infact id like it to be a little harder (just not unforgiving with mechanics hitting for 80-90% tank HP) just as long as we have the tools to tackle the issue with, because currently if you get the wrong classes in your group you might as well leave and re-queue hoping for a better team setup that has the right tools.
    Gonna disagree with you slightly here. You don't NEED a cab/sab for any encounter. Storm caller and bladedancer can cover whatever aoe you might need, but there is no expert boss that NEEDS aoe. I have run through every dungeon with three warrior dps in tempest and been just fine.

    You are probably correct about the healing side though. Chloro and lib don't really have the burstn needed st this gear level
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToxicWaltz View Post
    Gonna disagree with you slightly here. You don't NEED a cab/sab for any encounter. Storm caller and bladedancer can cover whatever aoe you might need, but there is no expert boss that NEEDS aoe. I have run through every dungeon with three warrior dps in tempest and been just fine.
    i wasnt on about the DPS when i was on about Cb or Sab, i was merely pointing out that they have superior mass CC and there is little comparison. the fact you have managed without these is good for you but for alot of people and trash packs this mass CC is a godsend as without, most tanks get destroyed in seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fliptrik View Post
    i wasnt on about the DPS when i was on about Cb or Sab, i was merely pointing out that they have superior mass CC and there is little comparison. the fact you have managed without these is good for you but for alot of people and trash packs this mass CC is a godsend as without, most tanks get destroyed in seconds.
    Not sure about mage, but I'd be pretty surprised if there's no CC there. Tempest has plenty of aoe so we've covered at least 3 of 4 classes
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  14. #14
    Fia
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    Hmm the healers from our guild say that cleric is the hardest to heal out of all tanks. Did Trion maybe forget to scale some stats? It really does seem that way to me, too.
    Fiia@Typhiria | Asthea@Hailol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    Hmm the healers from our guild say that cleric is the hardest to heal out of all tanks. Did Trion maybe forget to scale some stats? It really does seem that way to me, too.
    id say its due to us having the least amount of defensive CD's. all the other classes have more and rogue has a ton. id imagine since we offer trickle healing to the group we are penalised by having less tools to mitigate damage. for example on Greenscale in SL T3 as a Cleric tank i couldnt take the Hyper Toxin followed the breath without inspecting the floor, whereas a rogue could take them and have a few CD's to spare...

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