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Thread: Salvation Heals in 3.0

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Salvation Heals in 3.0

    While I appreciate that now our threat scales off of DPS and actual healing not overhealing, Salvation is not so important, the fact that it scales abysamlly and the only way to boost it was from the crystal set bonuses makes it even more useless.

    I know that this will be a small priority given that there is so much more to do in the xpansion, and I really like the new crystals, But I wonder whether either the base scaling on salvation could be addressed, or possibly (and maybe more easily) the flat bonus lost from the old crystals could be replaced with something extra in our Masteries.

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    Champion of Telara TheDoomgiver's Avatar
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    A Relict justicar salvation-healed and tanked almost the entire ToDQ for us last week, with a bard (roughly 3:1 healing split) (or was it 2 weeks ago?).

    Prolly a hybrid, but still an amazing sight to see.
    Last edited by TheDoomgiver; 10-03-2014 at 11:53 AM.

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    Got to remember that he/she is 3 gear levels above the content you are doing. Also looking at health scaling on the PTS our base health as DPS is so much higher that in my 60 gear having levelled the char to 65 I have over 50k health. Makes the 600 salvation heal puny to say the least. Possibly have Salvation scale based on my health or my endurance. Maybe even link that in with a talent higher up in the tree to prevent people using it to make super-survival hybrids.

    I dont want my tank to solo heal a dungeon in dunegon gear. But I would like the salvation boosted so Im making a contribution to the group heals (to make up for the fact that our guild warrior tank does double my damage, triple on aoe with the right build, and rogues just got the 40% damage reduction when in tank spec removed by their masteries).

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    RIFT Guide Writer Lethaemis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunrar View Post
    Got to remember that he/she is 3 gear levels above the content you are doing. Also looking at health scaling on the PTS our base health as DPS is so much higher that in my 60 gear having levelled the char to 65 I have over 50k health. Makes the 600 salvation heal puny to say the least. Possibly have Salvation scale based on my health or my endurance. Maybe even link that in with a talent higher up in the tree to prevent people using it to make super-survival hybrids.

    I dont want my tank to solo heal a dungeon in dunegon gear. But I would like the salvation boosted so Im making a contribution to the group heals (to make up for the fact that our guild warrior tank does double my damage, triple on aoe with the right build, and rogues just got the 40% damage reduction when in tank spec removed by their masteries).
    I would have to agree that salvation heals are a little on the low side. At 65 in expert ready gear, it was only ticking for ~700(~1100 on a crit).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethaemis View Post
    I would have to agree that salvation heals are a little on the low side. At 65 in expert ready gear, it was only ticking for ~700(~1100 on a crit).
    700 X 5/6 with the mandate buff is a substantial amount of healing for a per gcd proc.

    That's not to even mention that to seems to me that is scales off points towards healing. I use Salvation in my Warden build 450ish with non Justicar abilities. This is just world gear im wearing in not even using any raid gear or anything.

    Imagine what my Salvation would look like in this build if I had all top tier gear BiS for Wisdom/SP

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    So scale it from endurance or make it heal a %age of our health. 25% of endurance would give about 825 with 3500End, but would limit the use for non-tank builds.

    And given that my non-tank gear on PTS gives 50K health I think 1/50th (averaging crit / non-crit) of a teamates health every 1.5 seconds for 5 people would hardly be gamebreaking.

    Not asking for Salvation to be made much better than it is now, just that something to be done so that with massive health scaling on DPS and loss of the crystals, it stays around where it is.

    Also remember that the only worthwhile healing ability to use Salavtion with is Geyser, and witht he buffs to Healing Cataract it isnt anywhere near as advantageous.
    Last edited by Thunrar; 10-05-2014 at 12:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunrar View Post
    So scale it from endurance or make it heal a %age of our health. 25% of endurance would give about 825 with 3500End, but would limit the use for non-tank builds.

    And given that my non-tank gear on PTS gives 50K health I think 1/50th (averaging crit / non-crit) of a teamates health every 1.5 seconds for 5 people would hardly be gamebreaking.

    Not asking for Salvation to be made much better than it is now, just that something to be done so that with massive health scaling on DPS and loss of the crystals, it stays around where it is.

    Also remember that the only worthwhile healing ability to use Salavtion with is Geyser, and witht he buffs to Healing Cataract it isnt anywhere near as advantageous.
    Yea but Healing Cataract doesn't allow you to DPS+Heal, Geyser does.

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    i agree that if the healing gets a buff then it will become OP and -icar will return in a pre-SL fashion. currently on live my Oraclicar build is capable of 10-12k hps through Salvation alone on fights like the GS mini, and that doesnt include my shields that i give out (since my meter doesnt count them). buffing the healing, although nice and i wouldnt mind, will break the Cleric class again like it did before 1.11.

    'IF' the healing gets a boost then its conversion for ST and AoE will have to be seriously looked at. and maybe it only applying to Justicar abilities reducing the potential for DPS hybrids. id suggest a system for "each Justicar attack grants x heal + 10% for each aditional target hit beyond the first". for auguments sake lets say Salvation heals for 1000 on one target it will heal 1100 on 2 targets and 1900 on 10, but only trigger once per ability.

    then i think they should just bring back the ability for it to 'proc' heal based effects. this will include things like, Greaters, Trinkets, certain Buffs or passives. maybe have this as a mastery option to 'allow' it to proc generic healing procs (Blessings will not count).use the scaling i mentioned above for ST-AoE and it will provide some useful bonuses to the groups without becoming OP. we may even be allowed to open up to 10 targets instead of just 5?

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    Shield of Telara Kelvenaru's Avatar
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    I really miss the Inquisicar and Shamicar style of play, was really nice back in the day and was my favourite role outside of tanking.

    Still hate the fact that because they didn't like it they got rid of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvenaru View Post
    I really miss the Inquisicar and Shamicar style of play, was really nice back in the day and was my favourite role outside of tanking.

    Still hate the fact that because they didn't like it they got rid of it.
    It's more because it was stupidly overpowered than they not liking it.

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    I use Salvation in ALL my DPS builds. You can still make the "icar" builds but your not going to be main healer or even decent back up healer. Though your contribution could still mean the difference between life or death in some situations.

    IF I thought I could Mesh Defiler and Warden together properly I could probably make a really strong support build.

    Obviously I wouldn't have the 30% link but the 20% link is still worth SOMETHING.

    Then factor in Salvation plus a cycle of Defiler/Warden cd/dot DPS and then waiting to cycle again spam geyser till I need to start the cd/dot cycle again. Also through in some AOE hots as well.

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    I get the point people are making about it becoming potentially OP in a hybrid, but I am a main specced cleric tank. Saying this must be **** because its otherwise abuseable elsewhere just doesnt hold water. Hence why as I said above I suggest you scale it with Endurance, a stat which your less likely to maximise as a mainspecced DPS/Healer. And the oppertunites where you can dish out significant AOE punishment and therefore give high heals even in a hybrid are limited. Especially by the max of 7 targets (me, one link and 5 randoms).

    Also I am aware that geyser does damage, but healing cataract is now much better throughput than Geyser + salvation. (And as salvation doesnt count as ST or AOE heal the new crystals wont allow it to benefit and be abused that way either)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunrar View Post
    I get the point people are making about it becoming potentially OP in a hybrid, but I am a main specced cleric tank. Saying this must be **** because its otherwise abuseable elsewhere just doesnt hold water. Hence why as I said above I suggest you scale it with Endurance, a stat which your less likely to maximise as a mainspecced DPS/Healer. And the oppertunites where you can dish out significant AOE punishment and therefore give high heals even in a hybrid are limited. Especially by the max of 7 targets (me, one link and 5 randoms).

    Also I am aware that geyser does damage, but healing cataract is now much better throughput than Geyser + salvation. (And as salvation doesnt count as ST or AOE heal the new crystals wont allow it to benefit and be abused that way either)
    the main issue now with Salvation is since they removed the threat portion its kinda useless. since our Tank tree has the healing and doctrines this gives way to us having less defensive CD's because we can kick out some "heals" which tbh are faily useless from a tanking perspective. take GS for instance, as a Cleric tank i struggle to take both a Hyper Toxin and Noxcious Fumes because i lack enough CD's to supliment the healers, i swapped out for a rogue and they survived it easily with CD's to spare...

    Im sorry but in terms of Salvation tbh its a dead passive in reality because when has a trickle heal saved you? if you buffed Salvation then you would have an even worse effect on the rest of the soul in that our healing will start to become our defensive focus instead of shields/% damage reduction which are more useful to a TANK. the healing from Salvation is useful with multiple targets to hit but in reality, since the threat removal, is now a dead passive that is useful in only a handful of situations and builds (solo, dungeon smashing and support soul for a few builds).

    my personal opinion is that Justicar needs a rework to remove the "healing" aspect from it, or atleast reduce it, and give us some other mechanic using the Convictions for defense as well as offence. maybe then rework Sentinel into something resembling the old Senticar, but not as OP as it was, with Salvation worked in somewhere in that tree. maybe work Sentinel into a ST/AoE hybrid within itself with a mechanic simular to Cabalist? not as strong ST or AoE as Puri or Warden but has the ability to swap on the fly to aid the other healers in either area for certain phases/mechanics (think Chloro)? plus this will still make it a decent PvP healer.

  14. #14
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    Salvation is our value added, along with DoL. Its equivalent to the warriors increased DPS or group heal, or the mages group shields from certain abilities and the rogue group health boost cd.

    Its really not there to save us, its there to give some variety of playstyle.

    Whilst I would agree that our CD's are not wonderful (we really need a longer lasting %age damage reduction, as these scale better with bosses) I think the reason rogues and mages survive fights better is more to do with their inbuilt shields in addition to their cd's, rather than just their cd's.

  15. #15
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    How about a base of 1% of your HP, keeping the double using Justicar abilities. Also, Salvation healing should be affected by spellpower, and +%healing (but not from spells).

    for an additional healing CD:
    Total Assurance: all conviction consuming abilities do 50% more damage and healing, and are off the Global Cooldown. Divine Right shielding has no cooldown and does not require overhealing. Lasts 15s

    and to make your healing actually meaningful:
    Righteous Mandate: Can be cast on any target target in the cleric's party or raid, including the cleric. All of the cleric's Justicar heals heal the target for an equal amount. The Justicar's Doctrines count as Instant Single Target Heals on the target of the cleric's Righteous Mandate. Salvation healing by Righteous Mandate counts as a spell. Divine Right applies to this target.

    Gives a nice 1m tanking CD in TA with a considerable amount of ogcd self healing and shielding in its duration. Makes offsouls with 6 Purifier or Sentinel good, as Doctrines apply either blessing to the RM target. RM will most often be on the tank, increasing durability, and giving a choice between shaman, inquisitor, and purifier offsouls.

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