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Thread: Shaman: When to use Vex

  1. #1
    Fia
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    Default Shaman: When to use Vex

    Sooo, I am trying to maximize dps output on my Shaman and was wondering when exactly I have to use Vex. I've read the guides from Ahov but I still don't quite understand how to use Vex properly. Afaik I have to use it before I use Frozen Wrath. So this is what I would do atm:

    Opener: Vex -> LH -> (Rotn) FW -> DF -> MB -> RoS -> Jolt proc -> IB (yes 2x magic to make use of the bleeding effect of MB) -> MB -> EoL -> CE -> "Block" (see below)

    Basically a block would look like this (of course I would be going by priority list here):
    Block: ... -> CE -> magic -> physical -> ... -> until right before Frozen Wrath runs out -> Vex -> FW -> MB -> ... .


    Is this correct or am I making some big mistakes here and there? Don't get me wrong, I get great dps numbers, but I want to maximize those as much as possible, so I'm grateful for any help. :D
    Last edited by Fia; 09-11-2014 at 06:26 PM.
    Fiia@Typhiria | Asthea@Hailol
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    Rift Disciple LaPengo's Avatar
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    Short:
    Vex is used before FW because that's when there's a Rotation "gap".
    It is also because it hits harder than Icy Blow, with the downside that it doesn't give Frostbite.
    It is also used as a GCD Delay.

    ***

    Long:
    You want to use FW next (its falling off in 1 GCD), but you don't have Frostbite up. So naturally you want to use a Magic Attack. However, you also don't want to use Icy Blow (Lowest hitting Magic attack).

    So instead, you burn 1 GCD on Vex and FW after to apply Frostbite and go about your way.

    This doesn't happen all the time, however since FW and Vex are both 15s, generally you can keep them together safely. You won't Vex if you can Glacial, LH or something else in its place for a Magic->Magic attack but again, every situation different. On a 'perfect' rotation you will always encounter this "gap", and its best filled out with Vex to make the whole process smoother and consistent.

    It may also be used as a GCD Delay for DF/MB. Since you want to use DF on your hardest hitting stuff (MB or CE and Jolt or Glacial), you might "delay" the next attack to not put one of them on CD so you can get 3 of them for its duration. This is basically the old habit of using Double Magic attacks before the MB CD Change to squeeze more MBs out, same concept.

    Others can probably tell you more, disagree with or agree with me.

    ***

    Side Note: Your opening is weird. :S
    Last edited by LaPengo; 09-11-2014 at 11:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Still offering to teach someone how to play shaman properly - hit me up in PMs.

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    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree with LaPengo overall, but my big concern here is your opening.

    If you're using all cooldowns on the start, then a better opening would be:

    Vex > (EoL) > RoTN > FW > CE > LH > (DF)MB > (RoS)Jolt > MB

    You absolutely want to get two MBs in your DF.
    -MB is your strongest hitting attack, thus it benefits the most from DF
    -Yes, you do clip one tick of Brutalize, but not having the 2nd MB in DF hurts your dps much more (the 2nd MB brutalize will still fully benefit from DF).

    if MB's damage is 1000, then your opening damage from MB is 1000*1.5*1.45 + 1000*1.45 = 3625
    In my opening, MB's damage would be 1000*1.55*(1+0.45*3/4) + 1000*1.55*1.45 = 4320.625
    This is not accounting for crits, which are pretty much guaranteed at high gear level.

    I put EoL at the beginning to delay a bit and wait for raid cooldowns which should be coming very soon. Doing it also Means I get 2 ticks of Eruption during DF, which is a little bonus that compensates a little for delaying everything else.

    This opening is only valid if you unleash every raid cooldowns right at the start. If the raid cooldowns are coming like 7 seconds into the pull, haybale posted another good opening that was:

    Vex > FW > CE > LH > MB > Jolt > CB > EoL > CB > IB > (RoTN+DF)MB > (RoS)Jolt > MB

    When you refresh FW and LH next time you should still have at least 4 and 2 stacks of RoTN, and considering they have another 10% built-in bonus crit chance from talents + raid buffs, they should still have a very high crit chance.
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    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    This **** seriously pains me to watch

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    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Why can't you post your great wisdom publicly rather than only in a PM though ? What would the point be ?
    <Apotheosys>@Typhiria
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  7. #7
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    Why can't you post your great wisdom publicly rather than only in a PM though ? What would the point be ?
    Because id do it on a voice programme with them in game then leave them free to disseminate the information as they see fit. Thats why.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Frozen wrath is an annoying spell to work with because it is made so that you cannot overwrite it with new FW. This causes some small problems when you try to recast after it has ran out.

    Basically the very moment Frozen Wrath fades you want reapply it, however the moment that FW runs out you cannot recast it, I assume this is because the server needs to tell the client that the previous FW has faded and new one can be casted now (for me living in EU this usually means that there is .5s-1s gap between old FW fading and before I can apply new FW). This is the time I use Vex
    Last edited by Cirtsu; 09-12-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  9. #9
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Shaman is way too hard.

    Confirmed.

    3.0 nerf please.

    Need to buy toaster - fufi confirm please?

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikos View Post
    Need to buy toaster - fufi confirm please?
    You can't live a happy life without a toaster, that's for sure
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  11. #11
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    youre meant to teach the rest of the poor shamans

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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    Why can't you post your great wisdom publicly rather than only in a PM though ? What would the point be ?
    FW > MB > LH > Vex > Deepfreeze Rush of str MB > Jolt > CE ect..

    enjoy

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    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Vex is a weak skill for shaman to use, it neither applies frostbite, doesn't proc vengeance, nor reduces the CD of MB, its only value is that it hits harder than IB.

    It is of no value in any opening rotation. It only has value when you must use back to back non-phys and nothing else is available, and only provided the loss of MB CD reduction won't cause an MB to be delayed.

    The instances where Vex is of value are pretty rare in a good rotation.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman View Post
    Vex is a weak skill for shaman to use, it neither applies frostbite, doesn't proc vengeance, nor reduces the CD of MB, its only value is that it hits harder than IB.

    It is of no value in any opening rotation. It only has value when you must use back to back non-phys and nothing else is available, and only provided the loss of MB CD reduction won't cause an MB to be delayed.

    The instances where Vex is of value are pretty rare in a good rotation.
    You must use back to back non phys in order to reapply fw on time. That generally would be icy blow if you aren't using vex. The only instance you might not want to do that is if you are fitting in a third jolt durin that cycle and it is available immediately before fw.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    That's not true at all.

    What Ambi said*

    And using back to back non-physicals isnt for fw reapplication it's to line up mb and ce timings so theyre used as soon as available.
    Last edited by Hikos; 09-14-2014 at 03:17 AM.

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