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Thread: Puri Itemization: SP vs CP

  1. #1
    Rift Master YobiRaion's Avatar
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    Default Puri Itemization: SP vs CP

    First of all, I still consider myself pretty new to cleric even tho I've (solo) MT healed every tier-3 encounter without any issues.
    I've been trying to find threads on forums with a fair amount of theorycrafting regarding whether puri with CP will pull ahead of puri full SP in end-game gear.
    Unfortunately, the only thing I've been able to find was some reference that going full SP or balancing your CP won't make any difference at all which is hard to believe, hence, I made this post.

    I've been mostly stacking SP for a while with a few gear alternatives with CP.
    Full SP geared I have 9110 SP and 100 CP completely unbuffed.
    With CP alternatives I have 8948 SP and 437 CP completely unbuffed.

    Planning to add a few more CP pieces shortly and recently started keeping logs of my average heals and max heal crits (from t3 encounters) but I dont have enough data to work on yet.
    A simple test i run alone was to cast Symbol of the Sun on myself with both gear sets:
    -- SP setup gave me 15000-15250 non-crit shields and 23000-23500 crit shields
    -- CP setup gave me 14800-15000 non-crit shields and 24500-25000 crit shields


    Now, I already had a conversation with a guildie coming down to itemization values which, if I'm not mistaken, was 1 CP worthing 1.3 SP for puri.
    However, the difference between a DPS and a Healer is that DPS can stick to highest stat weights because DPS gain is always a DPS gain but that doesn't necessarily applies to a healer, yet a puri, because HPS gain doesn't always mean better heals.

    What I mean by that is.. It might be better doing constant heals to keep tanks alive or shielded enough to prevent overkills rather than have big crits coming when you dont need them and small non-crits coming when u really need them.
    On the other hand, puri itself has forced crits through Flashover which on average comes once every ~27 seconds (25-30 sec range) due to "Hot Streak" talent, so, maybe CP would be more beneficial in the end.

    My crit ratio is 3100 on both setups which translates into 24.68% chance to crit fully unbuffed.
    When healing that's another 5% from talents and I think 6% from raid, roughly 35-36% before other raid buffs and consumables.



    I'm open to discussion or any feedback if you have some logs to share.
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  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Shields are generally always consumed so critting them isn't a bad thing as it doesn't just push up overheals like for some other specs. Further more flashover obviously takes full advantage of CP.

    I think the balance point is finding how little SP you can get away with, ie what the lowest minimum heal you can manage to keep tank up with, and then add CP from there. Like 10 non-crits in a row on mallavan or magcillian will the tank die? If the answer to that is yes then SP is too low.

    Different encounters need a different approach too, consider LGS, the only real high pressure heal is the breath attack and you can flashover SotS everytime he breaths for a refreshing critted shield so high CP will work well here. Nothing else on this encounter is really gonna push you if your SP is low and you have a string of non-crits. Probably a good fight to pile on some CP and make some DPS inbetween bursts of healing.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


  3. #3
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    My opinion about Purifier is that it is a complementary healer. The soul's role is not that much to heal than to complete another tank healer's job by adding shield on top of the health.

    Considering this, the fact that SP scaling is not that great (escpecially at T3 level, where the SP you gain from int/wisdom/weapon/stone is much more significant than what you get from actual SP on your armor pieces), and that as ambi said, you can control a guaranteed crit for big known incoming hits, CP is just as valuable as SP.

    Now, considering you're gimping other specs if you go full SP, my answer is what I keep saying to everyone : you can be a great healer in a dps's gear, you can't do great dps in a healer's gear.
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  4. #4
    Telaran
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    I have no prove to back this up but my feeling after playing alot of puri is that i prefer to have between 600 and 800 CP, especially for those forced crits on latent blaze for instance. I just like the high (forced) crits for "oh ****" moments.

  5. #5
    Champion Sheridyn's Avatar
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    My math came out to 1 SP = roughly 1.2 CP with T3 gear.

    Josh York uses quite heavy CP weights on his items, typically putting CP numbers equal to 1.6-1.7 times the SP ones on equivalent tier pieces. I'd personally take the Spellpower raid drops but buy the CP vendor gear - I don't think there's a compelling reason to carry a full SP set.
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  6. #6
    Rift Master YobiRaion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    My opinion about Purifier is that it is a complementary healer. The soul's role is not that much to heal than to complete another tank healer's job by adding shield on top of the health.
    Personally, I disagree with that. Puri is a fully capable solo MT healer at least in our raids.
    When trying to meet tight DPS checks and take a boss down before anyone else and before overgearing the encounter you simply cannot afford using 2 main-tank healers cos you need the extra DPS.
    I've solo MT healed every tier-3 encounter on progression without much trouble. Cross healing from AOE healers after all has always been enough of a support, plus you got defiler oGCD heal and UT for the "oh-shi" situations :P

    Anyway, on topic.
    Let's say that dropping down the average healing to the level that it's just enough to sustain tanks without most of it going into overhealing and for the sake of getting those extra crit-shields - How much CP do you think that would be?
    Architect of <Apotheosys> :: Progress & Achievements
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  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YobiRaion View Post
    Personally, I disagree with that. Puri is a fully capable solo MT healer at least in our raids.
    When trying to meet tight DPS checks and take a boss down before anyone else and before overgearing the encounter you simply cannot afford using 2 main-tank healers cos you need the extra DPS.
    I've solo MT healed every tier-3 encounter on progression without much trouble. Cross healing from AOE healers after all has always been enough of a support, plus you got defiler oGCD heal and UT for the "oh-shi" situations :P
    The cross healing from AOE healers is part of what I was saying about "another tank healer". By having a big part of its output in the form of shields, the purifier makes the AOE healers much more valuable in the tank healing than if he was giving only straight heals: he is maintaining the tank alive enough for the splash healing to heal the rest.

    For example on Laethys, I think you're using two chloros. I think it's out of date, but back in ID times, having 3 AOE chloros was roughly equal to having 1 ST chloro on every player. If you think in these terms, the two chloros are almost equal to having an extra tank healer. It would be much less noticeable if the purifier's healing didn't have any form of shielding.
    This is what I'm refering to when I say "complementary healer", which is true isn't a good name.
    <Apotheosys>@Typhiria
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  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer
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    Puri only does about as much tank healing as an aoe healer. Its real strength is shielding and even two of the more important heals it has (latent blaze and flame of life) scale better with CP than SP.

    For example if I look at logs from a fight like Maelforge then 2/3 of the damage is absorbed by various shields and of the remaining 1/3 puri heals ~16% and a quarter of that is from latent blaze. It's even less on Akylios where the tank healing portion is in single digits, even as low as 5% when you take off flame of life and latent blaze.

    The other end of the spectrum are fights like Irauga and Magcillian where it does bit less than half of the tank healing on top of shielding. Then in the middle ground we have Laethys where it's at about 15% of tank healing without latent blaze/flame of life.

    My opinion is that puri could easily stack a bit more CP without harming its core functions. However the crit chance of purifier in a raid is only at about 40% max which is not enough to give particularly good scaling with crit power so you're not really gaining much for purifier role. In fact using more CP only increases average shielding done by a couple of % and makes it more unpredictable. Personally I would just look for good value since not all items are budgeted the same and I would avoid crit chance items. The main reason to use more CP would be to give the character the option to dps better when it's not in purifier role.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    I can't say it better than that.
    <Apotheosys>@Typhiria
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  10. #10
    Rift Master YobiRaion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gery View Post
    Personally I would just look for good value since not all items are budgeted the same and I would avoid crit chance items.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheridyn View Post
    My math came out to 1 SP = roughly 1.2 CP with T3 gear.

    Josh York uses quite heavy CP weights on his items, typically putting CP numbers equal to 1.6-1.7 times the SP ones on equivalent tier pieces.
    Tier-3 itemization favors CP versions of vendor gear by a large margin, indeed.
    You could even go as high as reaching CP cap with puri and still keep some items in SP version

    Also, I played GS and Aky at the 600 CP range but honestly at this state of farm purifier feels really useless. At least when we first went there on release you had to time Symbol of Sun on GS breath and pre-shield both tanks for Chomp on Akylios.
    Guess I'll have to wait for another Mael Laethys session to feel the difference with CP heavy gear.

    On a side note, judging from the number of answers and the lack of similar but older threads on Forums, I'm a bit surprised of how few people (if any) ever tried to theorycraft, test and analyze purifier in depth before. (Wish Bubbaz was around!)
    Not sure if that means people don't actually understand the potential of a -good- puri in a raid (mostly during progression)
    Architect of <Apotheosys> :: Progress & Achievements
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  11. #11
    Telaran Alchameth's Avatar
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    Well I still have strong feelings for crit power especially using the aforementioned tier3 pieces that will take it to a whole other level (some legs-shoulders-boots combo) when still maintaining
    massive spell power from the specific armor drops, since they are higher in SP than the vendor ones. I mean, come on, the CP is too high and the SP is too low for BiS armor parts. I lieks flashover and crit power strengthens it.

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