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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Suggestions for Warden

  1. #46
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    If you actually used Orbs of the Stream in a raid you would see it's not "meh." Having it passively apply via Geyser would be an absurd amount of passive tank-healing.
    I do use them. I just dont think enough people use them. Its a great thing to use when you know bad things are coming. Maybe its a good idea to keep them as they are.

    Another idea I had was to make them work kinda like how some other abilities work - your spams reduce the current cooldown of other abilities.

    Meaning maybe some spam abilities from warden could reduce the current cooldown of the orbs so you could use them more often? Maybe instead of geyser doing something likely OP and alos not as controllable by the user, geyser could just reduce the current cooldown of them by a second.
    Last edited by Xenoheart; 08-26-2014 at 10:23 AM.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    • Alluvion - Now also increases the number of targets hit by Healing Flood by 5/10.
    • Under Pressure - Now also reduces the mana cost of Geyser, Healing Cataract, Healing Flood and Soothing Stream by 8/16/24%.
    • Dangers of the Deep - Stacks now also reduce the cast time of Warden abilities by 0.03/0.06/0.1s per stack.
    • Soothing Stream - Healing no longer decays over the duration of the HoT.
    • Ripple - Increase the base radius from 15m to 20m.
    • Distant Shores - Fix so it correctly affects the radius of Ripple and Monsoon.
    the mana reduction to geyser is nice but the rest is just overkill. going to reduce the SS healing output if it will no longer decay over time?
    Last edited by goia402; 08-26-2014 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    • Alluvion - Now also increases the number of targets hit by Healing Flood by 5/10.
    • Under Pressure - Now also reduces the mana cost of Geyser, Healing Cataract, Healing Flood and Soothing Stream by 8/16/24%.
    • Dangers of the Deep - Stacks now also reduce the cast time of Warden abilities by 0.03/0.06/0.1s per stack.
    • Soothing Stream - Healing no longer decays over the duration of the HoT.
    • Ripple - Increase the base radius from 15m to 20m.
    • Distant Shores - Fix so it correctly affects the radius of Ripple and Monsoon.
    Having DoTD reduce the cast time on all abilities would let the warden smoothly mesh with anything.

    While changing DotD can it not affect the duration of Foul Growth, or have Foul Growth actually work with DotD? Foul Growth fails to heal if its duration is longer than default, although it does let you build stacks more easily.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emtbob View Post
    Having DoTD reduce the cast time on all abilities would let the warden smoothly mesh with anything.

    While changing DotD can it not affect the duration of Foul Growth, or have Foul Growth actually work with DotD? Foul Growth fails to heal if its duration is longer than default, although it does let you build stacks more easily.
    Wait, are you applying stacks of Foul Growth manually?

  5. #50
    Ascendant Ianto Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koruen View Post
    For pvp (which means for warden CQ/Scion), it's a real pain to reach and maintain the 5 stacks of DotD.
    No harder than it is for Chloros to hit enemies. That is the price Warden pays for doing better DPS than, say, Liberator.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    • Alluvion - Now also increases the number of targets hit by Healing Flood by 5/10.
    • Under Pressure - Now also reduces the mana cost of Geyser, Healing Cataract, Healing Flood and Soothing Stream by 8/16/24%.
    • Dangers of the Deep - Stacks now also reduce the cast time of Warden abilities by 0.03/0.06/0.1s per stack.
    • Soothing Stream - Healing no longer decays over the duration of the HoT.
    • Ripple - Increase the base radius from 15m to 20m.
    • Distant Shores - Fix so it correctly affects the radius of Ripple and Monsoon.
    Disclaimer: I don't play a Cleric, just passing through and like to theorycraft.

    I like the cast time reduction to DotD. My worry is that it increases the HPS loss of having to refresh it with Geyser, and makes ramp-up-time worse. I'm also a little worried that Healing Cataract will eventually have its HPS balanced around the lowered cast time, to not step on chloro's toes in the throughput department, which would turn the change into a subtle nerf in the long run.

    My understanding is that Oversautration adds a stack of DotD on cast, but not when it deals damage (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). How about lettng it add a stack whenever it deals damage? That would make it easier to build up the stacks at the start of a fight, or to recover if it falls off by mistake. Geyser could still be used to refresh it while at 5 stacks.

    Given the HPS buff to Healing Cataract, it might be useful to slightly buff Geyser HPS as well (maybe have Under Pressure buff it's damage and healing?), to keep the HPS ratios at about the same level.
    Last edited by Arceliar; 08-26-2014 at 11:12 AM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    I still wish geyser was made to be the base spam for AOE healing (since it does damage) with healing cataract the to go to when no enemy targets are available (kinda like chloro does with natural healing and flourish, etc).
    During times when Warden does not need to use their cooldowns and such, Geyser spam is basically what they do (plus dots). Healing Cataract is not something that wardens will typically spam, although there are a few situations where Cataract spam is fine.
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  8. #53
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    Keep in mind that these are meant to be QoL changes, not overhauls like Pyro or SC.

    With that in mind, I like these changes. The only reservation I have is the change to SS. I worry that this will give people a false indication that they can use warden for tank healing. When I tank and I see a new player trying to get through in warden, I already know I'm in for an hour long random expert.
    Last edited by Juxtaposed; 08-26-2014 at 11:15 AM.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    Any chance of seeing push back removed from downpour or a talent to affect push back in the tree. All the other changes look great.

    Also iirc ss doesn't tick on cast. I may be wrong but that would be another decent qol change for that ability due to its stacking nature
    Last edited by haybale; 08-26-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    • Alluvion - Now also increases the number of targets hit by Healing Flood by 5/10.
    • Under Pressure - Now also reduces the mana cost of Geyser, Healing Cataract, Healing Flood and Soothing Stream by 8/16/24%.
    • Dangers of the Deep - Stacks now also reduce the cast time of Warden abilities by 0.03/0.06/0.1s per stack.
    • Soothing Stream - Healing no longer decays over the duration of the HoT.
    • Ripple - Increase the base radius from 15m to 20m.
    • Distant Shores - Fix so it correctly affects the radius of Ripple and Monsoon.
    As far as these go:

    I like the removal of diminishing heal values on soothing stream and healing Spray.

    Alluvion - I like this change.

    Under Pressure - Geyser is the only one where a mana reduction would be useful, A 10% heal boost to the healing part of Geyser, Healing Flood and Healing Cataract would hold more value for me.

    Dangers of the Deep - We only have 2 spells where this cast time reduction would apply- Overflowing Renewal and Healing Cataract. For a predominately "instant cast" soul, it does not seem to synergize well within an ability. I would change the cast time for those 2 abilities via a 38 or 40 root, or 31+ tree talent.

    Ripple - The radius change is ok, however the max of 5 players is not. I would like to see this changed to 10.


    Items I feel that are still missed:

    - Downpour - Channeled and mobile.

    - Soothing Stream/Healing Spray - While I like the removal of their diminishing values I do feel both of these could still use a 10% healing boost.

    - I also like the idea someone had of an added immobile channeled damage to heal ability. (ie: a small damage to burst healing every 2 secs over 8 secs. )

  11. #56
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    I want to say I like that changes are coming. I agree that DotD needs something different as the soul is primarily instant cast, if the stacks affected GCD that would be a strong incentive and I think downpour could get a movement buff and possibly it could apply 5 stacks of DotD; if that would not work then ANY damage from the warden could apply the buff. It does make it very difficult to build stacks and maintain them. As far as QoL this would be beneficial to the QoL. Either way I welcome the changes.


    Xeno does have a wonderful idea. Using a mechanic similar to shaman that minimally lowers CDs makes the game more dynamic instead of static timers. Most players I encounter that really understand shaman love playing the spec. It is competitive right now and simply fun to play. I'd love to see more smaller CDs or something that get ticked down with the promotion of better gameplay; Such as say, Geyser lowers CDs by .5s each use. Well, it creates an incentive, yes, but could we just spam that during heavy AOE dmg? No, we'd have to focus on healing and output, but it makes use of our other abilities in the mean time.

  12. #57
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    If Dangers of the Deeps were to affect all spells, there aren't very many builds that can take advantage of it.

    Spells that get a benefit:

    Somatic Desecration (1.0s cast time)
    This could be made into a decent healing build with little extra effort, and might be worth it to match the upcoming water/nightmare themed expansion.

    Bolt of Judgement (1.0s and 0.5s cast times)
    This could be a fun build but lacks all the damage and burst from high in the inquisitor tree.

    Subtle Invocation (1.5 to 1.2s cast times)
    Healing Invocation (2.0 to 1.7s cast times
    Not as good as Overflowing Renewal at 1.5s

    Shadow's Touch (1.0s cast time)
    Cabalist/Warden is an odd combination

    Insignia of Blood (1.0s cast time)
    A hybrid oracle/warden would be a cool concept like above with defiler, but would require some work

    Spells that don't gain much
    Bolt of Light
    Flame Lance
    Ward of Scorching

  13. #58
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    Under Pressure - Geyser is the only one where a mana reduction would be useful, A 10% heal boost to the healing part of Geyser, Healing Flood and Healing Cataract would hold more value for me.
    A reduced cast time HC will benefit heavily from this. This is a direct buff to our sustained healing output. The mana reduction is needed in tandem with the cast time redux and is a pretty standard cost reduction found across all abilities with this type of cast time reduction.

    Dangers of the Deep - We only have 2 spells where this cast time reduction would apply- Overflowing Renewal and Healing Cataract. For a predominately "instant cast" soul, it does not seem to synergize well within an ability. I would change the cast time for those 2 abilities via a 38 or 40 root, or 31+ tree talent.
    I kind of agree it could be done in a root ability but i think it is nice to build on DotD management as it is central to the soul.

    Ripple - The radius change is ok, however the max of 5 players is not. I would like to see this changed to 10.
    This would essentially give a Monsoon every 30 seconds based on tidal surge cd reduction. It should stay at 5.

    - Downpour - Channeled and mobile.
    I would like to just see any knockback removed from this channel. Mobility isn't necessary and takes away the proper positioning requirement.

    - Soothing Stream/Healing Spray - While I like the removal of their diminishing values I do feel both of these could still use a 10% healing boost.
    This again would be a buff in the area that isn't really needed as it would have a huge impact on Tidal Surge and your recommendation for 10 target ripple. Those two alone would put Wardens sustained at likely too high of a level.
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Hey all,

    Here's the current list of changes I'm looking at for Warden:
    • Alluvion - Now also increases the number of targets hit by Healing Flood by 5/10.
    • Under Pressure - Now also reduces the mana cost of Geyser, Healing Cataract, Healing Flood and Soothing Stream by 8/16/24%.
    • Dangers of the Deep - Stacks now also reduce the cast time of Warden abilities by 0.03/0.06/0.1s per stack.
    • Soothing Stream - Healing no longer decays over the duration of the HoT.
    • Ripple - Increase the base radius from 15m to 20m.
    • Distant Shores - Fix so it correctly affects the radius of Ripple and Monsoon.
    Alluvian change = Great!
    Under Pressure = Mana reduction cost is great however... this leads to my next concern
    Dotp and Soothing stream has always been "unfun" mechanics and I think these are the main reason why warden gets a bad rep. There duration is so short and the drop-off is very punishing if you do not get to refresh these in time because of the number of stacks that are required to be maintained. Is it at all possible to just get rid of the stacking mechanic? or if not at least make it last 4x as long? having to manage 2 stacking hots/dots as well as soothing spray and healing flood is counter-productive to the style that warden healers present- which is bursty on demand aoe healing that adapts to the raid situation. The worst offense in end game raiding is not playing the "optimal rotation", and fixing these 2 abilities goes along way to make this class more streamlined yet unique.
    Ripple = Great!
    Distant Shores = Great!

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edesion View Post
    Dotp and Soothing stream has always been "unfun" mechanics and I think these are the main reason why warden gets a bad rep. There duration is so short and the drop-off is very punishing if you do not get to refresh these in time because of the number of stacks that are required to be maintained. Is it at all possible to just get rid of the stacking mechanic? or if not at least make it last 4x as long?
    It may be "unfun" for you but it is what makes Warden unique. Taking it away or making it simpler to manage (Which has already been done in the past) than it already is, would just gut the main dynamic that exists with its healing. That is the one change that i personally would never want to see in the Warden soul.
    Last edited by haybale; 08-26-2014 at 03:19 PM.
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