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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Suggestions for Warden

  1. #16
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Oh I know...it just didn't read that way to me.

    As for PvP, just do the following. 8 sec CD on swapping heal types and then do what they have always done with healers...adjust individual values as needed in PvP. If Cloro works there is not reason this should not work. If people want to argue 3's and 5's...really don't care. Trying to balance arena is fruitless. I see trying to balance 3s and 5s as little different from trying to balance 1v1. Tbh I think this is why 3s and 5s are in dimensions and not something Trion does...they want to distance themselves from it.

    You will always have an optimal make up for arenas regardless of what you do, a game like rift with this many variations makes it even more impossible. No sense trying to stick your finger in that dyke.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  2. #17
    Prophet of Telara Morwath's Avatar
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    Ontopic:
    *Warden needs a channeled filler like Ameliorate on low CD, which can be cast during movement.
    *Downpour should be possible to be cast during movement like Ameliorate and @targetself like Ame.
    *Make Warden HoTs have stronger effect on himself than others, so it won't be so easy target to oblitarate by anything in PvP.

    Offtopic:
    Spoiler!

  3. #18
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    Ontopic:
    *Warden needs a channeled filler like Ameliorate on low CD, which can be cast during movement.
    *Downpour should be possible to be cast during movement like Ameliorate and @targetself like Ame.
    *Make Warden HoTs have stronger effect on himself than others, so it won't be so easy target to oblitarate by anything in PvP.

    Offtopic:
    Spoiler!
    Umm nice ad hominem, such a complete strawman argument is the lest refuge for the person without and actual argument.

    BTW I play both callings, equally at this point and until SL Cleric was my main, clearing all raid content with the Calling.

    My point, if you bothered to read it was addressing a problem in the Cleric Soul... which includes Warden. None of the ideas addressed really change the fact that Warden would be a burst heal specialist and thus be less desirable than Liberator, Cloro, and yes Phys/Tac in any fight that requires sustained raid heals. As such my idea is directly about buffing Cleric healing.

    Warden is not the only issue in Clerics that needs serious help.

    1. Warden is a darn good raid healing soul, arguably the best at burst raid damage. However Liberator does that well enough and is much better at sustained heals. Cloro and Phys/tac are about (largely) sustained raid heals and bring more utility. The buffs descibed here largely just make Warden better at what has already proven to be a limited niche. You could literally wip[e Phys from the game and this issue would still exist. Cheers for you suggesting this remain the same.

    2. Sent as a "pure" soul has ALWAYS been an outlier soul with little purpose (if any) in raids. So long as Puri exists that will never change for a soul that is only a ST healer. Shields>heals. The only time it was of use was as Senticar (except for Iny). Cheers on ignoring this as a major issue as well.

    3. Inquis will always be pigeonholed as neding to do less dps than Tempest, Ranger, Pyro, Warlock etc because it brings the utility, same as MM. Again cheers on myopia.

    So you fix these issues the same way they are fixing the identical issue in Warrior (redundant souls). You get a heal soul that has it's burst raid heals maintained, sustained raid heals increased AND being able to dance between being a mix of both and then to a largely ST heal soul. This is a buff.

    You take the open soul slot and turn it into a pure ST ranged spec with limited utility. This removes any and all excuses for Cleric to not compete head to head with the best ranged dps in the game. This is also a buff.

    Now I can totally understand people saying they want to keep both Warden and Sentinel as healers and somehow make it work but they have not made it work since launch.

    I have to say though not really surprised at your seeming need to troll. You are the guy who tried to say nothing was wrong with Pyro and then suddenly when the patch notes get posted say

    Problem with Pyro is: there is no reason to play melee if you can 12k Fulminate followed by 15k CB and optional Inferno if target is alive from 35m range. They need to reduce dmg on instants and move it to Fireballs.
    Pretty sad when someone has to get their jollies from trolling behind an anonymous avatar on the interwebs.
    Last edited by Galibier; 08-20-2014 at 05:45 AM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  4. #19
    Rift Disciple CoffeeTeaOr's Avatar
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    sustain is the problem? i would say buff ripple to affect the entire raid, and lower its CD. ez.
    It is what it is. Unless it isn't.

  5. #20
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    That wouldn't really address the issue because Chloro is better at sustained and only deals with 10 people at a time, not 20. Additionally it fails to address the issues with Sent and Cleric ranged dps. This isn't WoW people. You aren't a warden you are a cleric. Broaden your vision.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  6. #21
    Prophet of Telara Morwath's Avatar
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    @Galiber
    Spoiler!


    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeTeaOr View Post
    sustain is the problem? i would say buff ripple to affect the entire raid, and lower its CD. ez.
    I think yes, its imho pretty useless outside of CQ/Port Scion in PvP.
    Mostly because you can't keep alive yourself... and you heal others not much better.

  7. #22
    Rift Chaser VolsalexR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaarielle View Post
    You should not only use damaging abilities to keep DotD up, but also when there's no healing needed for a few secs, so the change you're asking is pretty crazy imo. Heck, with such a change, you got your Orbs of the Tide buff like you want since Tidal Surge will be off-cooldown super often (I'm not sure if the +80% healing only applies to the first stack of the Orbs, though).
    I think you didn't get my suggestion right, I suggested to remove CD reduction mechanic and replace it with strict 15 sec CD reduction, so it is not available too often, but only /30 seconds.

    You might be right about PVE side of things, but I took into account PVP side as well. There, you can't afford to spam damaging abilities whenever you want, you should use them only to build and keep DotD stacks, or your raid will just die. That is why this ability (Tidal Surge) is slightly gimped in PVP because its CD reduction doesn't happen as often as CD reduction of Flashover/TTL and they are not in line.

    With 30 sec CD, you can just spend it between Downpour and WoR both in PVE and PVP.

  8. #23
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morwath View Post
    @Galiber
    Spoiler!




    I think yes, its imho pretty useless outside of CQ/Port Scion in PvP.
    Mostly because you can't keep alive yourself... and you heal others not much better.
    First the change of reasoning is fine and actually apreciated. Sad that you didn't notice I have been calling for specific Phys/tac nerfs as well (and for quite sometime actually.) The only issue I dispute is the actual ability to alter base energy regen in PvP only. If you want I will PM the suggestions I have made in multiple threads that would actually also include what would technically be nerfs in PvE. They are spread across a few threads.

    That said i do like how you ignored the actual content of my post as it relates to buffing wardens and clerics in general and instead continued a tangent.

    As for my IGN, nice straw man.
    Last edited by Galibier; 08-20-2014 at 07:14 AM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeTeaOr View Post
    sustain is the problem? i would say buff ripple to affect the entire raid, and lower its CD. ez.
    Not sure if this is a troll, but it made me laugh.

    I'd be like Oprah giving away hots,.. "You get a hot, you get a hot, you get a hot, you get a hot. EVERYBODY GETS A HOT!!"
    Dreezie

  10. #25
    Rift Master krabcat's Avatar
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    the most logical choice if they change one of the heal specs to a dps would be to keep warden and change sent. that way we have a dot based dps(inqu) hot based healer(ward) cast/channel healer(puri) and cast dps(sent)

    boost the healing of soothing stream and healing spray by 100% and change a few abilities

    shared excess: the AoE/ST toggle switch. when active, ST hot healing is reduced by 25-50% whichever balances it nicely

    healing flood: healing stays the same between SE on and off(because it is an aoe hot) but the number of targets changes, while off it hits up to 5 players in range, and while on it hits up to 20

    healing spray: ST generally unchanged except for the heal increase. AoE hits up to 5 players can not be reapplied until 5 sec left or lower

    soothing stream: ST unchanged. AoE hits up to 5 players can not be reapplied until 5 sec left or lower but does no direct healing. instead when hit it explodes putting the hot portion onto the target and 3 other nearby players with a maximum stack size of 4

    downpour: removes healing flood from up to 10 players and applies them to the target 5 sec channel, one buff applied/removed every 0.5 sec

    wave of renewal: activates soothing stream on everybody hit while going out, doubles the healing from your HosTs while coming back in

    ripple: doubles the duration of HoTs on 5 players

    pool of restoration: ST heals the target for a large amount, AoE unchanged

    healing effusion: 3 sec HoT stacks 3x. healing/mana cost/targets unchanged

    cant really think of any more atm, what i tried to do was bring down the burst healing a bit and add a bit more constant healing while also having it able to switch between AoE and ST
    Last edited by krabcat; 08-20-2014 at 07:57 AM.
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  11. #26
    Rift Disciple CoffeeTeaOr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    That wouldn't really address the issue because Chloro is better at sustained and only deals with 10 people at a time, not 20. Additionally it fails to address the issues with Sent and Cleric ranged dps. This isn't WoW people. You aren't a warden you are a cleric. Broaden your vision.
    addresses the issue fine. think. this is one suggestion that no one posted. would something like this solve the entire problem? no. but a toolbox is full of tools.

    It is what it is. Unless it isn't.

  12. #27
    Rift Disciple CoffeeTeaOr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krabcat View Post
    good stuff
    111111111111111111111
    It is what it is. Unless it isn't.

  13. #28
    Champion Yaarielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolsalexR View Post
    I think you didn't get my suggestion right, I suggested to remove CD reduction mechanic and replace it with strict 15 sec CD reduction, so it is not available too often, but only /30 seconds.

    You might be right about PVE side of things, but I took into account PVP side as well. There, you can't afford to spam damaging abilities whenever you want, you should use them only to build and keep DotD stacks, or your raid will just die. That is why this ability (Tidal Surge) is slightly gimped in PVP because its CD reduction doesn't happen as often as CD reduction of Flashover/TTL and they are not in line.

    With 30 sec CD, you can just spend it between Downpour and WoR both in PVE and PVP.
    Oh sorry, I thought you were saying -15 secs cooldown PER USE OF DAMAGING ABILITY. But yeah, your suggestion makes sense.
    Last edited by Yaarielle; 08-20-2014 at 01:11 PM.
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  14.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #29
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    Some good suggestions so far in here. I think some QOL improvements for Warden are definitely possible, probably even ones that could make it out prior to 3.0. I'll make some time this week to work on this some and try to give you all a better idea of what sort of things can be done.

  15. #30
    Rift Chaser KelbornOrdo's Avatar
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    Here's my suggestions:

    AoE/ST "Stance"

    Orbs of the Tide:
    Instant - 15s CD

    Increases the healing done with Healing Cataract and Healing Effusion by 30%. Reduces healing done with Overflowing Renewal by 30%. Reduces the cast time of Healing Cataract by 0.5s and the mana cost of Healing Effusion by 20%. While Orbs of the Stream is active, each cast of Healing Cataract or Healing Effusion applies a stack of Flowing Tide to yourself for 15s. When Flowing Tide reaches 5 stacks, it is consumed to heal up to 10 allies in a 20m radius around you for X over 6s. Flowing Tide cannot be reapplied while this effect is active.

    Orbs of the Stream:
    Instant - 15s CD

    Increases the healing done with Overflowing Renewal and Healing Spray by 40%. Reduces the healing done with Healing Cataract and Healing Effusion by 40%. Reduces the cast time of Overflowing Renewal by 0.5s. While Orbs of the Stream is active, Healing Spray can only affect 1 target. Additionally, each cast of Overflowing Renewal applies a stack of Flowing Stream to the target for 15s. At 3 stacks, Flowing Stream is consumed to heal the target for X over 6 seconds. Flowing Stream cannot be reapplied while this effect is active.
    In the Soul Tree, switch Orbs of the Tide to 44pt Root and Orbs of the Stream to Tier 4 Branch. (gives better ST healing for leveling early, and better raid healing later in leveling)

    I really liked the idea people had of making Warden a "stance dancer" similar to Chloro, given how [nearly] useless Sentinel is. You can get quite a bit of healing out of the current Orbs of the Tide... but Orbs of the Stream? "Meh".

    I didn't like turning one of the other buffs, like Bosun's Blessing or Shared Excess, into a convoluted mess like was in the OP, so I went with re-purposing both Orbs. A change like this would make Warden more dymanic, and even able to keep a tank up should an actual tank healer die. The Soul still leans more towards the burst side of things, but the Tide changes should help squeeze out a bit more sustained.

    General Changes

    Soothing Stream: Change to a single stack HoT.

    Bosun's Blessing: In addition to it's current effects, reduces the GCD of Healing Spray and Soothing Stream by 0.5s.

    Downpour: Change to mobile channel, increase healing by 20%.

    Ripple: Reduce CD to 15s, change to affect 10 targets.

    Dangers of the Deep: Increase duration to 30s.

    Oversaturation: Applies Call of the Depths and Dehydrate to the target in addition to it's current effects.


    The changes to Soothing Stream, Dangers of the Deep, and Oversaturation are QoL to reduce the amount of micro-management in Warden. The Ripple change will help boost sustained healing by allowing SS/HS to be on 10 targets at all times, outside of Monsoon and on 20 targets during Monsoon. Downpour is just a very lackluster ability, so maybe making it mobile and increasing the healing would make it more useful. The addition to Bosun's Blessing is just something that needed to be done.
    Last edited by KelbornOrdo; 08-25-2014 at 12:09 PM.

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