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Thread: My 2 cents on clerics in PVE

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    Soulwalker Hymnz's Avatar
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    Default My 2 cents on clerics in PVE

    I wanted to post my opinions in Ahov's previous thread but since it's closed, I think its important to make a new one.

    Please try to be as constructive as possible and keep the discussion about PVE CLERIC only.

    Since Storm Legion, I have always played a Shaman as my main so I will be talking about that mostly but I think Inquisitor and Druid need a little love too.

    Shaman has always been a very fun class to play for me due to its interesting skill-cap. The perfect rotation takes a while to master and is more complicated than most other roles in rift. It always felt like a high risk high reward gameplay ( especially in PVP ) where you want to maximize your uptime in melee to pull ''impressive'' dps e.g. goloch fight during baneful smash, overall Thrax fight or any encounters not melee friendly. That being said , I think it's wrong they are so behind atm.

    Here are some of my suggestions:

    1) Deep Freeze is one of our 2 big cooldown and it needs to be more reliable. There are a lot of fights where you can hit in melee range but yet your deep freeze doesn't connect on the target. I'm thinking about Regulos fight ( you need to move in void assault's range), Magcilian when we move on the platforms, etc.

    2) We have 2 completely useless abilities that could be tweaked to give us a little something. Of course I'm talking about the praised Glory of the Chosen & Heart of the Frozen Sea.
    Perhaps a 4th courage buff?

    3) That's more of a personal preference but at the moment, I believe a Shaman spamming 2 macros repeatedly(+ CDs) will get about 90% of his max deeps. Increasing the damage of Eruption of Life / Vex / Lightning Hammer would be a nice way to tune Shaman to make their dps better but also increasing the difficulty a bit. It would make the class more enjoyable in general imo.This would also leave a door open to buff Druid and Inquisitor by the same occasion.

    4) Buffing Ekkehard's Grasp would be interesting when we are stuck in range.

    5) As far as talents go, I think Usman made some great suggestions.

    Change Dauntless courage (tier 1) to 5/5 increases spell power by 2/4/6/8/10%
    Change Favoured of the Valinir (tier2) to 2/2 increases duration of lighting by 3/6s
    Change Singled out (tier 2) to 3/3 increases single target damage by 3/6/9%

    Effectively working a much needed extra 10% SP into the soul, (and also giving inquisitor a better off soul option that cabby, i think)

    I would like to see Frozen wrath no longer increase damage of VotPN, but increase damage on VotWS by 150% or 200% instead. This should have the desired effect of boosting up ST while reducing AoE by about 25%.
    That's all for now, tell me what you think / add suggestions.
    English is not my first language so yeah.

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    Any changes to Shaman and Inq should be placed high in the soul tree so it doesnt cause balance issues with hybrids. Oracle is already OP as it is, no need to make it's hybrids even more broken. (it deals too much dps for a support while being able to bring utility or even purges from sub soul in 61 base build)
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

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    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Just nerf Oracle then.
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    MNM
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    Ehm...there are no viable hybrids for clerics.

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    The current problem i have with cleric dps is that its too much dot reliant and therefore horrible at target switching. Inq has 4 dots you need to maintain(Scourge , Vex , Dark Water and Sanction Heretic as it does 60 % more dmg for a single GCD than your bolts). I almost feel like im playing warlock on my alt just without the dot refreshes and ability to transfer them.The whole concept of stacking Life and Death condord stacks doesnt feel like the main priority of the spec (Its a cool uniq mechanich). I think the idenitity should be the bolts not the dots . And the second problem is that for you to do the max dps you need abilities from the 15 point on off trees on everything. This way the main soul kinda loses a bit of identity when its so reliant on the off souls to do its full potential ( for shaman its lika ~2 k more dps if you use vex and life surge)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Otts View Post
    Any changes to Shaman and Inq should be placed high in the soul tree so it doesnt cause balance issues with hybrids. Oracle is already OP as it is, no need to make it's hybrids even more broken. (it deals too much dps for a support while being able to bring utility or even purges from sub soul in 61 base build)
    I'd rather see something done to bring oracle back in line with other support souls. And in pve, oracle is just a bit above bard. It's not double dps or anything that drastic. This discussion is pve focused, not pvp, where oracle hybrids may be considered broken.

    In all honesty, clerics don't have any good hybrid options for pve. There are some hybrids you can make for certain circumstances, but they won't be good anywhere outside those circumstances.

    Inq is already useless as a hybrid due to the its soul defining characteristics are 58 and 61 points. I'd actually rather see something else done with those, inq isn't a particularly powerful spec in pve.

    Druid is not optimal as a hybrid because its main source of burst is a 61 point ability. That, and it is very pet reliant.

    I've never found a defiler hybrid I liked, I won't say they don't exist.

    I don't like how shaman plays but the lack of hybrids I see in the world make me think its main abilities come with a high point investment.

    Cabby isn't very useful outside solo play, and according to some, certain raids that I haven't done. I've not come across a cabby build that hybrids well with anything else, not since the the revamp. I had a leveling cabby hybrid I liked, but I can't reproduce its effects now.

    And that's all the cleric dps souls. I'd like it if clerics had some hybrid options, if only to break away from cookie cutter effect you see in 61 builds.
    Last edited by Taledra; 08-04-2014 at 09:10 AM.

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    MNM
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    I think oracle should stay where it is, since it's a support that's actually viable in 5mans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakaishi View Post
    ( for shaman its lika ~2 k more dps if you use vex and life surge)
    It's not nearly that much of a gain but the point is still valid and was why I complained so much during the oracle testing about DW being involved in the rotation. Off soul abilities detract from themes that full 61's are built around.
    Last edited by haybale; 08-04-2014 at 09:15 AM.
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    Soulwalker Hymnz's Avatar
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    shaman
    * dauntless courage: Now increases spell power by 2/4/6/8/10%.
    it has begun!

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    Shadowlander XenoSoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakaishi View Post
    The current problem i have with cleric dps is that its too much dot reliant and therefore horrible at target switching. Inq has 4 dots you need to maintain(Scourge , Vex , Dark Water and Sanction Heretic as it does 60 % more dmg for a single GCD than your bolts). I almost feel like im playing warlock on my alt just without the dot refreshes and ability to transfer them.The whole concept of stacking Life and Death condord stacks doesnt feel like the main priority of the spec (Its a cool uniq mechanich). I think the idenitity should be the bolts not the dots . And the second problem is that for you to do the max dps you need abilities from the 15 point on off trees on everything. This way the main soul kinda loses a bit of identity when its so reliant on the off souls to do its full potential ( for shaman its lika ~2 k more dps if you use vex and life surge)
    This is how that tree felt at launch and it's funny it feels that way now (not really funny). So, I would agree. Single target caster trees (regardless) the class should feel more about the casted abilities and not the handful of DoTs you have to cast (that all share the same cooldown). I always feel I am just recasting expiring DoTs then actually enjoying playing a casting type Soul. (IMHO)
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    Rift Disciple WyldStallyns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otts View Post
    it deals too much dps for a support while being able to bring utility or even purges from sub soul
    *cough* Archon *cough*
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyldStallyns View Post
    *cough* Archon *cough*
    Oh hey, guess what? No one uses 61 Archon. Ever. People are barely starting to use 51 Archon again as-is due to Pyro.

    How about we neuter half your support tree and see how that feels, yeah?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WyldStallyns View Post
    *cough* Archon *cough*
    wow, wow, wow...stop bringing to light Mage souls that can also be considered as "doing too much DPS for a support soul". /sarcasm

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    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evantide View Post
    Oh hey, guess what? No one uses 61 Archon. Ever. People are barely starting to use 51 Archon again as-is due to Pyro.

    How about we neuter half your support tree and see how that feels, yeah?
    No one cares what build is used. The only truth is that archon builds pull similar to oracle build (at least before pyro changes), while bringing all the support tools they need to bring to the raid. It doesn't matter if that's 61 build or not.

    So if oracle pulls too much damage for a support, then so does archon. And in my opinion, they are where they should be : likeable in a 5-man setting. Bard need to have its dps up to that level, and maybe (don't get the forks out, I just said maybe) healing nerfed to compensate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fufi View Post
    No one cares what build is used. The only truth is that archon builds pull similar to oracle build (at least before pyro changes), while bringing all the support tools they need to bring to the raid. It doesn't matter if that's 61 build or not.

    So if oracle pulls too much damage for a support, then so does archon. And in my opinion, they are where they should be : likeable in a 5-man setting. Bard need to have its dps up to that level, and maybe (don't get the forks out, I just said maybe) healing nerfed to compensate.
    Don't nerf bard healing :/ Oracle has shielding and very minimal healing and better dps. So if bringing bard to oracle's level, no nerfing of healing is needed for balance since generally shielding>healing anyway. Also, nerfing its support abilities seems overmuch for a support soul that's already subpar in the current environment.

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