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Thread: Dps party time

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Dps party time

    Hey guys! Welcome to the party

    Okay... It's not really a party... But we can still have some fun... I hope.

    I just wanted to share my ideas on the Shaman and Inquisitor souls. I play a lot of pvp (Having leveled from 10 - 60 almost exclusively in warfronts and having acquired full warlord 2 weeks after hitting 60), and I find both these souls to be in an awkward situation currently.

    As of now, Shamans are a SUPER glass cannon, having amazing burst damage. Yet, despite this, there are souls that have even better burst than ours with even more survivabilty. Furthermore, Shamans also suffer from EXTREME disconnect issues. Having only one charge and one slow makes it nearly impossible to catch some ranged specs. Also, being knocked back constantly doesn't help either.

    Inquisitors, however, are suffering from the exact opposite. Inquisitors, are, in my opinion, one of, if not the, best 1 v 1 souls in game. I can beat partial relic warriors and rogues using my Inquisitor spec while only having full warlord myself. This is not because of amazing damage, but because of over the top survivability. Inquisitors actually have mediocre damage with horrible/almost nonexistent burst.

    In my opinion both souls need a little work to be TRULY competitive in all aspects of pvp. Shamans certainly need more utility and surivabilty while Inquisitors need more damage and burst.

    Now, these are my thoughts beyond a simple reworking of percentages and flat damage/health boosts (Which are truly needed as well).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shaman:

    Changes to current spells:
    Massive Blow - Applies a debuff to the target, reducing their armor by (blank) amount for 5 seconds.

    Ride the Lightning - Increases the Shaman's speed by 25% for 5 seconds.

    Bitter Wind - Is now an 8 second cooldown.

    Jolt - Has no Global Cooldown.

    Snowbank - Has no Global Cooldown.

    Courage of the Bear - Now increases endurance by 10%.

    Heart of the Frozen Sea - Now also increases armor by (blank) amount.

    Ekkehard's Grasp - Now reduces the cooldown on Ride the Lightning by 2 seconds.
    New spell ideas:
    Defibrillating Shock: Applies 5 stacks of Defibrillation to the Shaman for 20 seconds. Each time the Shaman critically hits during this time, a stack is removed and the Shaman is healed for %10 health.

    Hibernation - Instead of Glacial Shield (Seeing as we have access to Shield of Oak), Hibernation acts as a 5 second debilitate with a 30 second cooldown.
    Inquisitor:

    Changes to current spells:
    Spiritual Scrutiny - Reduces ALL inquisitor global cooldowns to 1 second. Furthermore, instead of Bolt of Judgement being instant cast, it causes Bolt of Retribution to be instant cast.

    Unified Theory - Instead of causing the next 2 Bolt of Retributions to be a .5 second less cast time, this would now allow an instant cast, no global cooldown Bolt of Judgement.

    Judicial Privilege - Now only has a 45 second cooldown, but instead of having a healing component, it simply adds 50% increased movement and 25% increased armor/resistance.

    Aggressive Renewal - Now has a 45 second cooldown and restores 10% health to the Inquisitor per tick. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Nysyr's Rebuke - If fully channeled, applies Nysyr's Deprivation to the Cleric, causing the next Bolt of Depravity to be cast within 10 seconds to have 25% increased damage. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Vex - Increases damage done to the target by the Inquisitor by 5% for 15 seconds.

    Spiritual Deficiency - Has no global cooldown.

    Perseverance - Cooldown reduced to one minute.

    Trepidation - The fear is reduced to 5 seconds, however, it does not break to damage caused by Sanction Heretic, Scourge, or Vex.
    New Spell Ideas:
    Reconciliation - Instead of Armor of Treachery (Seeing as it is never used), Reconciliation acts as a 5 second debilitate with a 30 second cooldown. Or, if that is too much, have it act as a slow similar to Snowbank above.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Once again, these are just my ideas. I rather like them actually, and, I think it would put both Shamans and Inquisitors in a healthy place, but not in an overpowered way. The changes above would increase Inquisitor's damage and mobility while increasing Shaman's survival.

    Remember, this was looking at it from a pvp perspective.


    Zolty@Seastone
    Last edited by Squigerz; 08-01-2014 at 07:52 PM.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Lethaemis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squigerz View Post
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Shaman:

    New spell ideas:
    Defibrillating Shock: Applies 5 stacks of Defibrillation to the Shaman for 20 seconds. Each time the Shaman critically hits during this time, a stack is removed and the Shaman is healed for %10 health.

    Hibernation - Instead of Glacial Shield (Seeing as we have access to Shield of Oak), Hibernation acts as a 5 second debilitate with a 30 second cooldown.
    While Defibrillating Shock does sound interesting, I don't think it would be enough to really increase the survivability even combined with your other changes.

    With regards to Hibernation, it would be nice to have a debilitate since it would somewhat make up for the fact that shaman can only deep freeze burst every min.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigerz View Post
    Inquisitor:

    Changes to current spells:
    Spiritual Scrutiny - Reduces ALL inquisitor global cooldowns to 1 second. Furthermore, instead of Bolt of Judgement being instant cast, it causes Bolt of Retribution to be instant cast.

    Unified Theory - Instead of causing the next 2 Bolt of Retributions to be a .5 second less cast time, this would now allow an instant cast, no global cooldown Bolt of Judgement.

    Judicial Privilege - Now only has a 45 second cooldown, but instead of having a healing component, it simply adds 50% increased movement and 25% increased armor/resistance.

    Aggressive Renewal - Now has a 45 second cooldown and restores 10% health to the Inquisitor per tick. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Nysyr's Rebuke - If fully channeled, applies Nysyr's Deprivation to the Cleric, causing the next Bolt of Depravity to be cast within 10 seconds to have 25% increased damage. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Vex - Increases damage done to the target by the Inquisitor by 5% for 15 seconds.

    Spiritual Deficiency - Has no global cooldown.

    Perseverance - Cooldown reduced to one minute.

    Trepidation - The fear is reduced to 5 seconds, however, it does not break to damage caused by Sanction Heretic, Scourge, or Vex.
    I like the Vex, Spiritual Deficiency(though it's not used in raid), Perseverance, and Trepidation ideas.

    The Nysyr's Rebuke change would be interesting, but I don't think we will ever see it channeled while moving.

    Aggressive Renewal change wouldn't be too horrible since it would be a nerfed version of Judicial Privilege since it can be interrupted and must be channeled to gain the effect.

    I cannot get behind your proposed Spiritual Scrutiny and Unified Theory changes. While they may be an increase to DPS, it is removing any real decision making from the spec. I don't want the spec to turn into maintain dots, 4xBoR+1xBoJ, BoD repeat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigerz View Post
    New Spell Ideas:
    Reconciliation - Instead of Armor of Treachery (Seeing as it is never used), Reconciliation acts as a 5 second debilitate with a 30 second cooldown. Or, if that is too much, have it act as a slow similar to Snowbank above.
    Armor of Treachery is used by every cleric tank.
    12/12 -- 15/15 -- 9/9
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    Lethaemis@Laethys 1600 Primalist

  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    I see where you are coming from! I really do. See, I only pvp so I didn't know that Armor of Treachery was really used.
    (Only been playing for about a month and a half)

    Furthermore, for me, I never really found myself using Bolt of Retribution, so that is where the idea on Spiritual Scrutiny came in play. Keeping it the same would be fine with me, but maybe giving Bolt of Retribution an instant cast with no global cooldown from Unified Theory would be nice? Also, cause the damage reduction to be 10% instead of 20%.

    All of these proposed changes were from a pvp perspective solely, so any criticisms and critiques are helpful.

    What would you suggest to increase Shaman's survive? Even with improved Courage of the Bear and Heart of the Frozen Sea? Possibly a revamped Glacial Shield or Shield of Oak from Druid?
    Last edited by Squigerz; 08-01-2014 at 09:00 PM.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Meh, actually I see that the instant cast no global cooldown Bolt of Retribution would have the same affect as you were trying to avoid lol. But still, if not that, lower the damage reduction to either 0 or 10%.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser VolsalexR's Avatar
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    I agree with most suggestions but have several comments about Inq:
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigerz View Post
    Hey guys! Welcome to the party
    Spiritual Scrutiny - Reduces ALL inquisitor global cooldowns to 1 second. Furthermore, instead of Bolt of Judgement being instant cast, it causes Bolt of Retribution to be instant cast.

    Unified Theory - Instead of causing the next 2 Bolt of Retributions to be a .5 second less cast time, this would now allow an instant cast, no global cooldown Bolt of Judgement.

    Judicial Privilege - Now only has a 45 second cooldown, but instead of having a healing component, it simply adds 50% increased movement and 25% increased armor/resistance.

    Aggressive Renewal - Now has a 45 second cooldown and restores 10% health to the Inquisitor per tick. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Nysyr's Rebuke - If fully channeled, applies Nysyr's Deprivation to the Cleric, causing the next Bolt of Depravity to be cast within 10 seconds to have 25% increased damage. Can now be channeled while moving.

    Vex - Increases damage done to the target by the Inquisitor by 5% for 15 seconds.

    Spiritual Deficiency - Has no global cooldown.

    Perseverance - Cooldown reduced to one minute.

    Trepidation - The fear is reduced to 5 seconds, however, it does not break to damage caused by Sanction Heretic, Scourge, or Vex.
    I agree SS should affect all ranged abilities (not only damaging), but only this. Instant spammable BoR in PVP will be too much as it itself will deal about 2k PVP dps from range.

    JP should be left as it is, because in this game where every melee (except one mentioned here) and their grandma has a passive/oGCD/spammable snare/"deal full damage from range" CD, movspeed increase will not help Inq's survivability much. Though its reset should go (with proper compensation).

    AR - I think you mean Harsh Discipline - even with your suggestion, it will be too weak because healing from it will get reduced in three times from valor as it already is now. (so it will restore not 30% for 3 seconds, but 10(!)%). I suggest just making it an analogue of AR that deals Life damage and restores HP instead of mana.

    Spiritual Deficiency should get a CD attached to off-GCD status or Inq will tab spam it in WF and all enemy team can get this debuff in several seconds.

    Trepidation: Include damage from Shroud of Agony ticks as well.
    Last edited by VolsalexR; 08-01-2014 at 09:30 PM.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for the post! Yeah, honestly now that I look at my Inquisitor change suggestions, I would do stuff differently. Admittedly I play Shaman more and I thought about Shaman moreso than Inquisitor.

    First, I did mean Harsh Discipline, my bad, furthermore, instead of vex increasing damage by 5%, considering that we have Clinging Spirit from Bolt of Depravity, i think Vex should reduce the healing received by the target by (blank) percent for (blank) seconds.

    And for Spiritual Scrutiny being switched to Bolt of Retribution, I meant keep the damage lowered by 20% as well.

    Personally I feel that JP should be changed in someway, and this is why I offered increased damage from Bolt of Retribution instant casts as well as the Harsh Discipline changes.

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    To me it seems like a shame that the 41 talent, BoR, is pretty much useless in pvp.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolsalexR
    Trepidation: Include damage from Shroud of Agony ticks as well.
    I was about to type this. Passive damage from a buff shouldn't break your own cc. Also, it would be nice to do something with armor of treachery that's not specific to tanks. I don't have a suggestion on it currently. Learning that tanks use it frequently made my former idea not very workable in terms of balance/fairness.
    Last edited by Taledra; 08-01-2014 at 09:50 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Chaser VolsalexR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squigerz View Post
    To me it seems like a shame that the 41 talent, BoR, is pretty much useless in pvp.
    Not completely. It is hard to hardcast it in 1 vs 1 fight even with EC stacks (especially vs melee), but in zerg fights it is definitely worth using with EC stacks. It also can help with your burst (fanat - BoD - NR - 1 x BoR + BoD that will hit at the same time - 3x BoR is posiibly the highest burst an Inq can perform (not including RC reset).

  10. #10
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    some changes seem fair but instead of the UT changes you mentioned maybe keep it the same but instead of a 1s cast for BoR make them instant instead. this will raise clerics DPS slightly due to the amount of movement required in both PvP and PvE.

    SS should make all ranged abilities on a 1s GCD. the amount of times my rythm for casting is thrown off when i am nominated for interrupts or purges is kinda annoying. having things like this on a 1s GCD wont make us OP but makes a nice QoL change so we dont waste too much DPS (an extra 0.5s GCD per purge/interrupt across the whole fight soon mounts up).

    The increase to Nysyrs Rebuke is not good tbh. our DPS really does take a nose dive if we cant get a full channel off so loading even more of our DPS to this 1 skill makes some encounters too painful when having to move on a RNG moments notice.

    As for Shaman, Jolt should never have been on the GCD in the first place esspecially when it procs its bonus damage. removing it from the GCD when the damage proc is up would bring Shamans DPS up a little bit while giving them a bit more burst damage. not sure this one change will bring our DPS inline with other melee classes but will certianly be a step forward.
    Last edited by Fliptrik; 08-02-2014 at 12:12 PM.

  11. #11
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    Radical Coalescence needs to lose its reset all abilities.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emtbob View Post
    Radical Coalescence needs to lose its reset all abilities.
    It doesn't really matter now, since pyro is essentially a better version of inquisitor. The only single thing going for us is judicial privilege. Removing that without any form of severe hps buff would just kill cleric's survivability that doesn't rely on trinket random proc and healing flare.

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