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Thread: Inquisitor Suggestions - PvP Centric

  1. #1
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    Default Inquisitor Suggestions - PvP Centric

    I play Inquisitor almost exclusively in PvP, even now when Oracle-Druid is pretty clearly a superior ranged spec. There are several mechanical things holding Inquisitor back in a PvP setting.
    1. Our Burst is unreliable and too small to counteract cross healing
      Nysyr's is both incredibly easy to recognize and incredibly easy to LoS/Interrupt. In fact the best method of successfully firing Nysyr's is to do so from melee range with Perseverance running. I would suggest reducing the cooldown to 45 seconds, having it castable while moving, and simply make it something like 80% of its current damage. This will align it better with our burst mechanic and make it more reliable.

    2. Our CC and CC mitigation are behind other DPS specs
      Comparing to the most similar soul - Pyromancer - Inquisitor CC utility is pretty low. There are several abilities but all are severely limited in application. AoE Fear is mostly useful for hitting when pulled into a crowd to provide a small chance of escape. Otherwise it is directly negated by our own DoT and damage shield abilities. I recommend making this ability break after 2-3% of total damage is taken. Our Disorient ability is woefully behind the debilitates that other classes get, I'd recommend converting this to a 5s Debilitate. Knockback is fairly useless in light of melee pulls/leaps/Paragon negation. I'd recommend making it apply a 4s unbreakable root. Finally Perseverance should be changed to a CC break on a 20s cooldown, Determination adds a 4s immunity and 50% speed boost. Shares its cooldown with Dark Passage.

    3. Double Judicial Privilege is overpowered and preventing much needed DPS and Utility attention
      This one is self explanatory, combined with other changes Radical Coalesence could be changed to add a flat 25% damage boost for 10s or 15s instead of resetting abilities and adding Unified Theory

    4. Our overall DPS is behind other primary DPS and even behind tankier hybrids like Warlord and Nightblade/RS
      This is a simple fix and easy to implement without creating hybrid issues, make the level 58 buff Spiritual Scrutiny apply to Bolt of Retribution instead of Bolt of Judgment and make the damage modifier -10% instead of -20%. And then make Echoing concord make the next 2 Bolts of Judgment Instant and OGCD but not add stacks to Life and Death concord.

      This would add to overall sustained DPS, give Inquisitor better burst aligned to synchronize better, bring it on par with other DPS as far as CC and CC mitigation go (and opening up better sub soul options), remove one very overpowered ability, and would work equally well in PvE. It would also be easy to adjust if it is overtuned or undertuned (ie by increasing/decreasing the damage modifier on BoR and Radical Coalescence.)

  2. #2
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    Have you considered at all what this would do to pve?
    Proud member of Seven@Deepwood
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  3. #3
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    Regarding your bolt suggestions: I'm not interested in any dumbing down of the spec for pve. It's already a complete joke to play.

  4. #4
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    It's not a complete joke, it's just weak and tragic. Once more we don't need a revamp, just some scaling fix.

  5. #5
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    You lost me when you said that NB/RS does more dps than Inq. NB/RS dps is bad, but it can outlast some specs due to being tanky and semi-ranged. It become useless when there's any healing involved.

    Nerfing JP and buffing dps somewhere high in to the soul tree is probably the best option.
    Quote Originally Posted by elfaraon View Post
    you really need to play more pyro . I bet you are a warrior or rogue so your opinion is not accurate at all. By the way pyro is not even close to have the highest burst in the game tell that to a sin or warlord

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caeus View Post
    I play Inquisitor almost exclusively in PvP, even now when Oracle-Druid is pretty clearly a superior ranged spec. There are several mechanical things holding Inquisitor back in a PvP setting.
    1. Our Burst is unreliable and too small to counteract cross healing
      Nysyr's is both incredibly easy to recognize and incredibly easy to LoS/Interrupt. In fact the best method of successfully firing Nysyr's is to do so from melee range with Perseverance running. I would suggest reducing the cooldown to 45 seconds, having it castable while moving, and simply make it something like 80% of its current damage. This will align it better with our burst mechanic and make it more reliable.

    2. Our CC and CC mitigation are behind other DPS specs
      Comparing to the most similar soul - Pyromancer - Inquisitor CC utility is pretty low. There are several abilities but all are severely limited in application. AoE Fear is mostly useful for hitting when pulled into a crowd to provide a small chance of escape. Otherwise it is directly negated by our own DoT and damage shield abilities. I recommend making this ability break after 2-3% of total damage is taken. Our Disorient ability is woefully behind the debilitates that other classes get, I'd recommend converting this to a 5s Debilitate. Knockback is fairly useless in light of melee pulls/leaps/Paragon negation. I'd recommend making it apply a 4s unbreakable root. Finally Perseverance should be changed to a CC break on a 20s cooldown, Determination adds a 4s immunity and 50% speed boost. Shares its cooldown with Dark Passage.

    3. Double Judicial Privilege is overpowered and preventing much needed DPS and Utility attention
      This one is self explanatory, combined with other changes Radical Coalesence could be changed to add a flat 25% damage boost for 10s or 15s instead of resetting abilities and adding Unified Theory

    4. Our overall DPS is behind other primary DPS and even behind tankier hybrids like Warlord and Nightblade/RS
      This is a simple fix and easy to implement without creating hybrid issues, make the level 58 buff Spiritual Scrutiny apply to Bolt of Retribution instead of Bolt of Judgment and make the damage modifier -10% instead of -20%. And then make Echoing concord make the next 2 Bolts of Judgment Instant and OGCD but not add stacks to Life and Death concord.

      This would add to overall sustained DPS, give Inquisitor better burst aligned to synchronize better, bring it on par with other DPS as far as CC and CC mitigation go (and opening up better sub soul options), remove one very overpowered ability, and would work equally well in PvE. It would also be easy to adjust if it is overtuned or undertuned (ie by increasing/decreasing the damage modifier on BoR and Radical Coalescence.)

    Really??? Inquisitor is behind dps wise in pve, but its still an amazing pvp spec, are you still dodging a 1v1 vs good Inquisitors like Inorxy? while making really false and dumb statements like "NB/RS" does more dmg, do you even pvp in this game or understand other classes at all?

    Your issue is a learn to play issue in pvp. Only thing INQ needs love in is PVE dps.

  7. #7
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    You don't understand the current state of PvP. Inquisitor is a fluff damage spec in PvP now. The good players opt for Oracle hybrids now. Inq can run up DPS numbers by DoT spreading but can't kill much. It's burst is last among the primary DPS classes even in the best case scenario (Every Nysyr's fires correctly). And you obviously haven't seen some if thd highly geared hybrid Rogue specs pushing 40k HPs while putting out top 5 DPS.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Regarding your bolt suggestions: I'm not interested in any dumbing down of the spec for pve. It's already a complete joke to play.
    I don't see any advantage in specs being arbitrarily complicated. But I am not opposed to a higher skill rotation mechanic. But it's pretty obvious that spam nukes need love in PvP since they are often reduced to less than 1,000 damage by Valor and resists, making them too small to even burn off shields. If you switch the bolt buff then Echoing Concord would need a change, so instead if insta BoJs a mechanic could be added there.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otts View Post
    You lost me when you said that NB/RS does more dps than Inq. NB/RS dps is bad, but it can outlast some specs due to being tanky and semi-ranged. It become useless when there's any healing involved.
    This describes the current state of Inq except it doesn't get stealth and ports. It's ranged and has survivability because of JP but it completely negated by healing.
    Last edited by Caeus; 07-26-2014 at 06:31 AM.

  10. #10
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    I would like to adjust some abilities to fully flesh out and emphasize the utility of the Inquisitor role. I would like to reward successful CC with an increase in damage similar to the Dominator soul. Currently Inquisitor is just flat-out behind the other callings in ranged dps; this is, in part due to our most powerful abilities being cleanseable or interruptable. I am ok with this, provided we get more options regarding our damage and CC, resulting in a higher skill cap. Of course, the giant elephant in the room is Judicial Privilege. This will be addressed.

    *Judicial Privilege - Healing component removed. Now adds 30% movement speed for 5s. Duration can be extended by 5s for each successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts. (This will provide us with a more reliable escape option since there is no passive movement speed or teleports available without severely hurting our dps. If you try to spec into a teleport you're going into the cabalist tree which really is not ideal).

    *Harsh Discipline - No longer susceptible to pushback. Healing increased to 25% of maximum health over 3s. Damage slightly increased. (This replaces the healing component of Judicial Privilege and makes it more active and strategic. This channel can be interrupted just like Nysyr's Rebuke so it adds a layer of complexity for opponents to prioritize interrupts. If you're low on health and they only have one interrupt, they will likely interrupt this. If you are high on health, they will more likely save their interrupt for Nysyr's Rebuke).

    *Aggressive Renewal - Now a 3s channel. Damage increased to match Harsh Discipline. Drains mana, energy and power, restoring the cleric's by an equivalent proportion. Cooldown reduced to 30s to match Harsh Discipline. (Yet another layer of complexity to improve variety in PvP. Will be great for 1v1 environments to keep rogues and warriors low, or in group play to slightly drain a healer).

    *Perseverance - Now off the global cooldown. Cooldown reduced to 1m. (Not much to say. This one is long overdue. Additionally it will force some decision-making as you have three important channels, and the situation will dictate which one you really want to finish).

    *Echoing Concord - effect improved to also apply from successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts. (To clarify, each successful utility cast will give you an available one-second Bolt of Retribution cast, resulting in a minor dps benefit. This is important because our pure control abilities are on a 1.5s gcd, and all of the existing ones deal no damage).

    *Circle of Oblivion - Damage component removed. Now a one-second cast. Hexes the area, teleporting one enemy per second to a random location within 15 meters. Now has a 1 minute, 30 second cooldown. (This ability was previously used to interrupt a potential sourcestone/fang carrier, and to unstealth hybrid rogues. It has been refunctioned to still potentially serve that purpose, but with an even more powerful effect of moving those players around, potentially disorienting their camera. Damage component was removed and a long cooldown was added to keep things balanced and force you to recognize the best time and place for it).

    *Bolt of Judgment - Damage reduced. (Necessary to help maintain balance. There are a lot of improvements to the utility aspects of the soul, and certain overall damage benefits such as control abilities giving you more Bolt of Retributions. You should be rewarded for acting as a turret, and punished hopping around too much. Movement should ideally be limited to Bolt of Depravity, Scourge/Vex/Sanction Heretic and control abilities to optimize your dps).

    *Nysyr's Rebuke - In addition to its previous damage, now pulses a Debilitate 3m around your target. (Once again, we are opening up our options and forcing some critical thinking. You can use Nysyr's Rebuke for 1v1 burst, or you can shut down some clumped up healers. Note: the debilitate effect does not actually work on your target, but in a very short radius around them).


    Summary

    I believe these changes will make Inquisitor a very high skill-cap role, rewarding proper CC and burst setup, and also forcing enemies to more actively decide which channels to interrupt based on their current team composition, positioning and the Inquisitor's health and target. Note that overall dps is roughly the same due to multiple channels being less damage than a normal rotation, and Bolt of Judgment has been lowered as well to compensate. This means Inquisitor will still deal less damage than most PvP roles, but now brings some refreshing gameplay and a more active, rewarding experience.
    Last edited by Ahov; 07-26-2014 at 11:08 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    crazy changes...
    So you want inquisitor to be an Inqiminator. Now with even more cc plus some dominator utilities with even higher dps...

    Can I get a hit of some of that stuff too?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riftyrifter View Post
    So you want inquisitor to be an Inqiminator. Now with even more cc plus some dominator utilities with even higher dps...

    Can I get a hit of some of that stuff too?
    Actually, the dps would be about on-par with the current inquisitor in pvp (less if you're doing more control or bunny-hopping around) with less survivability. 1v1 potential is nerfed while group-play is improved. Seems pretty fair to me.

    If you notice I'm calling for a nerf to Bolt of Judgment. This should compensate for the additional BoRs you get from using your utility. Additionally Aggressive Renewal and Harsh Discipline, while dealing more damage than they currently do, will still be a dps loss compared to continuing your normal rotation.

    I've been more than fair with these changes, maintaining dps balance while keeping the skill cap high. Pyromancers and Rangers will still easily out-dps an Inquisitor, and even a Marksman will considering they deal uncleanseable damage (they also are 100% mobile).
    Last edited by Ahov; 07-26-2014 at 01:14 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I would like to adjust some abilities to fully flesh out and emphasize the utility of the Inquisitor role. I would like to reward successful CC with an increase in damage similar to the Dominator soul. Currently Inquisitor is just flat-out behind the other callings in ranged dps; this is, in part due to our most powerful abilities being cleanseable or interruptable. I am ok with this, provided we get more options regarding our damage and CC, resulting in a higher skill cap. Of course, the giant elephant in the room is Judicial Privilege. This will be addressed.

    *Judicial Privilege - Healing component removed. Now adds 30% movement speed for 5s. Duration can be extended by 5s for each successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts. (This will provide us with a more reliable escape option since there is no passive movement speed or teleports available without severely hurting our dps. If you try to spec into a teleport you're going into the cabalist tree which really is not ideal).

    *Harsh Discipline - No longer susceptible to pushback. Healing increased to 25% of maximum health over 3s. Damage slightly increased. (This replaces the healing component of Judicial Privilege and makes it more active and strategic. This channel can be interrupted just like Nysyr's Rebuke so it adds a layer of complexity for opponents to prioritize interrupts. If you're low on health and they only have one interrupt, they will likely interrupt this. If you are high on health, they will more likely save their interrupt for Nysyr's Rebuke).

    *Aggressive Renewal - Now a 3s channel. Damage increased to match Harsh Discipline. Drains mana, energy and power, restoring the cleric's by an equivalent proportion. Cooldown reduced to 30s to match Harsh Discipline. (Yet another layer of complexity to improve variety in PvP. Will be great for 1v1 environments to keep rogues and warriors low, or in group play to slightly drain a healer).

    *Perseverance - Now off the global cooldown. Cooldown reduced to 1m. (Not much to say. This one is long overdue. Additionally it will force some decision-making as you have three important channels, and the situation will dictate which one you really want to finish).

    *Echoing Concord - effect improved to also apply from successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts. (To clarify, each successful utility cast will give you an available one-second Bolt of Retribution cast, resulting in a minor dps benefit. This is important because our pure control abilities are on a 1.5s gcd, and all of the existing ones deal no damage).

    *Circle of Oblivion - Damage component removed. Now a one-second cast. Hexes the area, teleporting one enemy per second to a random location within 15 meters. Now has a 1 minute, 30 second cooldown. (This ability was previously used to interrupt a potential sourcestone/fang carrier, and to unstealth hybrid rogues. It has been refunctioned to still potentially serve that purpose, but with an even more powerful effect of moving those players around, potentially disorienting their camera. Damage component was removed and a long cooldown was added to keep things balanced and force you to recognize the best time and place for it).

    *Bolt of Judgment - Damage reduced. (Necessary to help maintain balance. There are a lot of improvements to the utility aspects of the soul, and certain overall damage benefits such as control abilities giving you more Bolt of Retributions. You should be rewarded for acting as a turret, and punished hopping around too much. Movement should ideally be limited to Bolt of Depravity, Scourge/Vex/Sanction Heretic and control abilities to optimize your dps).

    *Nysyr's Rebuke - In addition to its previous damage, now pulses a Debilitate 3m around your target. (Once again, we are opening up our options and forcing some critical thinking. You can use Nysyr's Rebuke for 1v1 burst, or you can shut down some clumped up healers. Note: the debilitate effect does not actually work on your target, but in a very short radius around them).


    Summary

    I believe these changes will make Inquisitor a very high skill-cap role, rewarding proper CC and burst setup, and also forcing enemies to more actively decide which channels to interrupt based on their current team composition, positioning and the Inquisitor's health and target. Note that overall dps is roughly the same due to multiple channels being less damage than a normal rotation, and Bolt of Judgment has been lowered as well to compensate. This means Inquisitor will still deal less damage than most PvP roles, but now brings some refreshing gameplay and a more active, rewarding experience.
    I like the idea of increasing the emphasis on CC and rewarding its use, but removing the heal component from JP would make the Inquisitor highly dependent on healers for survivablility. One channeled and interruptable 25% heal every 30s isn't going to cut it, imo. I've loved CC classes ever since I played a Psionicist in VG, but you don't seem to be adding enough utility to justify nerfing survivability and mobility with the same DPS.

    Some more specific feedback:

    -A 3m AoE is tiny, and not applying the debilitate to the primary target would make that component of Nysyr's pretty much useless.

    -Your idea for Circle of Oblivion is interesting, but it seems far too gimmicky to be effective in anything other than very specific circumstances. This isn't an FPS; CC effects should apply to the enemy character, not the enemy player behind the keyboard. Also, a 1:30 CD seems way too long for something with such a limited purpose.

    -The damage of BoJ is already reduced by 20% to make it instant-cast. Unless you want to get rid of Spiritual Scrutiny, nerfing the damage even further makes little sense, imo.

    Some alternative ideas:

    -Keep Nysyr's Rebuke largely as-is, but allow it to be channeled while moving.

    -Reduce the duration of Trepidation to 4 seconds and remove the break-on-damage limitation.

    -Increase the damage and base cast time of BoD and add a new 3 second stun as a reactive ability that consumes Unified Theory, forcing the player to decide between CC and direct damage.

    -Keep the healing component of JP, but place it on a 1m hard cooldown so it cannot be reset by Radical Coalescence. Add a component that breaks snares and roots, but not debilitate/fear/confusion/etc.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    *Judicial Privilege - Healing component removed. Now adds 30% movement speed for 5s. Duration can be extended by 5s for each successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts.
    I would prefer it have a 20 second buff component. I think being forced to use those cc abilities within the 5 seconds to extend it is fairly restrictive considering how much of a nerf this is to the ability. Maybe this is what you intended and i just read incorrectly.

    Judicial Privilege - Increases the Clerics run speed by 30% for 5 seconds. Buffs the Cleric, causing any Inquisitor non-damaging ability used within the next 20 s to increase run speed by 30% for 5 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
    *Harsh Discipline - No longer susceptible to pushback. Healing increased to 25% of maximum health over 3s. Damage slightly increased.

    *Aggressive Renewal - Now a 3s channel. Damage increased to match Harsh Discipline. Drains mana, energy and power, restoring the cleric's by an equivalent proportion. Cooldown reduced to 30s to match Harsh Discipline.
    I like both of these but i personally would also like to see them as life damage for L&D builders
    due to the penalties already suffered (low damage output, stationary and lengthy channel)

    *Echoing Concord - effect improved to also apply from successful Purge, Excommunicate, Bewilder, Trepidation and Aggressive Renewal casts.
    These CC's should just match our 1 second damaging ability GCD. Having them apply EC doesn't really make sense imo. Possibly have Life and Death concord build by using any Life Abilities, not just damaging ones. Then these CC's could be flagged as Life to provide some minor benefit.

    *Circle of Oblivion - Damage component removed. Now a one-second cast. Hexes the area, teleporting one enemy per second to a random location within 15 meters. Now has a 1 minute, 30 second cooldown.

    *Nysyr's Rebuke - In addition to its previous damage, now pulses a Debilitate 3m around your target.
    I don't really care for either of these but anything i would suggest for them would be more oriented for pve so i won't bother.
    Haybale@Greybriar

  15. #15
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    What's the point now? Making Inquisitor a good ST dps again, or make it more group friendly? I'm confused... i thought we needed more rough damage, not more utilities (there's Oracle for that, and it's doing fine).
    This thing started with a request for slightly higher coefficients on damage abilities (a super quick and easy fix), and it's now become a total overhaul of the soul... is it really needed?
    I'd stick to the original plan... less healing from JP, more damage from DD stuff (i'd also like to see an uncleanseable Scourge, but it would bring too many QQs here and ingame... we can skip this part).
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