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Thread: Isn't it time Cleric healing souls get Wild Growth + Living Energy for raid?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    It's suppor role to provide buffs like WG and LE. Healers shouldnt steal it from them.
    You do realize many DPS classes provide buffs not found easily elsewhere.
    [QUOTE=AlwaysHealNeverDie;4804705]

    This also creates issues with PvP balance because you cant buff chloro in pvp when he can offer all these buffs.[/quote
    Sure you can, you take away from their steady healing to compensate.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post
    Cleric healers still have their unique role and are fine imho. Oracle offer supportish buffs for hybridization like Bard, except raid cleanse which Bard doesnt have.
    Oracle offers EVERYTHING a bard can offer.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  2. #212
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    [QUOTE=Katosu;4804890]You do realize many DPS classes provide buffs not found easily elsewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysHealNeverDie View Post

    This also creates issues with PvP balance because you cant buff chloro in pvp when he can offer all these buffs.[/quote
    Sure you can, you take away from their steady healing to compensate.

    Oracle offers EVERYTHING a bard can offer.
    There you go again trying to derail ths thread about Wild Growth and Living Energy being duplicated to another healing soul has nothing to do with Bard vs Oracle or Chloro's in PVP.
    Last edited by Mumnoch; 05-25-2014 at 03:56 PM.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katosu View Post
    Overhealing is completely and utterly irrelevant. Overhealing does absolutely nothing currently for a Chloro, it is wasted, in other words it has no purpose.
    The only argument you can use is that Chloro is high DPS for a healer, and really you don't suffer anything but a personal DPS loss of a couple K when you choose a phys/tact over a Chloro.

    If you choose to pick a Warden, again, you lose DPS, but its nothing that ruins your progression nor is mandatory.
    Let alone that Wild growth makes Chloro more unique in its gameplay, no reason to take it away.



    Lol makes you sound like one of those obnoxious 16 year olds that weren't dished out enough beatings when they were younger.
    Progression raiding is just that, raiding done when the content is unnerfed, and when you are in the appropriate entry level gear.

    FT,EE,GA, ToDQ, PBB, IG, all required you to have these classes during progression.
    If you did not have them, you weren't going to clear them which is simply a fact.
    Ask anyone in the top 5 gulds during FT,EE,GA,ToDQ what was their composition.


    If you are attempting to further optimize your composition for a faster kill, you're not doing progression raiding, you're farming.
    When you are farming, you've overgeared the content and your composition becomes more flexible and geared towards DPS.

    As the amount of damage being taken can be tolerated to a much greater degree and requires less healers.

    I am finding it hard as to why you are intentionally mis-reading what has been written.

    Tactician by itself is not a healing soul
    Physcian/tact is a healing spec.
    There is a difference between the two terms and you're constant misinterpretation in the hopes of baiting an insult doesn't work with me.




    You're not really convincing the opposing side of an argument when you begin doing the whole "I am rubber and you're glue" bit.


    Not being required =/= not optimal.
    For example, a Chloromancer is not required in a raid because unlike every other healer currently, it is severely lacking in cooldowns for aoe healing and ST healing.

    This does not mean it is not optimal, just that it is optimal for bringing it due to personal DPS.
    When it comes to Defiler, however, the Link's are ALWAYS useful because they reduce the amount of healing necessary.
    This allows other classes to not have to play as safely or use abilities to squeeze out more DPS that normally cannot be used.

    This is what makes Defiler one of the best souls in the game if not the best.
    It can DPS very, very well, can spot heal, and it can mitigate damage in a multiplicative fashion which is flat out amazing.
    Harbinger, Tempest and Tactician do not compare to how incredibly good Defiler is as a soul.
    This is why its ALWAYS taken.


    I apologize for not making it simple for you.

    You want Physician to have WIld growth, even though Tactician has it already





    A necro does not have alien cooldown.
    Cannot spot heal.
    Cannot apply multiple link's and mitigate damage even further.
    A Necromancer cannot, and never has been able to substitute for a Defiler in any content that is relevant.


    Mumnoch, I would not suggest bringing up who is in what raid given that you are not in any of the top 5 guilds.
    none of the people in those guilds support any of your ideas.
    Not even Ahov whose argument changes to what suits him.



    You do realize that phys/tact can substitute for a CHloromancer right?
    Something you have acknowledged multiple times.
    Why you find this amusing is beyond me, but clearly you cannot even keep track of what you are talking about, let alone understanding the point of someone else's argument.
    All you have done is declare your stance repeatedly even after it has been ripped to shreds.


    Which is perfectly acceptable because a Chloromancer does not have the same cooldown suite that a Physician possesses.
    Phys/tact spec s intended to rely on constant healing just like a Chloromancer.
    Perfect substitution outside the personal DPS loss.

    So try again.


    Where do you think the majority of healing comes from?
    Their healing aura, which means a Chloromancer cannot reliably cross heal like the other healer's can.


    No...it really does not.
    A chloro still cannot cross heal another chloro due to the way veils work.
    This does not at all address the issue.

    This is liek me going up to you and saying "The vents for my air conditioning unit are too small and now there is water in the walls."
    Your solution?

    A smaller A/C unit.
    Sure you addressed the leaking problem, but that doesn't change the fact that the vents are too small and that now the house takes longer to cool and costs me more money.




    Really now?
    Tell me about how you stacked Chloromancer's during Crucia progression without using a single Warden and survived orbital strikes.

    Oh right...you didn't...

    No they aren't.
    Defiler muti-links and monster CD? Not shared.
    Puri shields? Not entirely shared.
    Unique gameplay should stay as it is...unique.
    Considering you can make up for WG through phys/tact, this is perfectly acceptable.
    Get over yourself Mumnoch.


    Reread my previous post concerning these "unique cooldowns" of defilers and others. Other classes have similar (Phy, Lib) cooldowns do some research already :P.



    When's the last time you've done any raid content without a Chloro? Even farm content where you are maximizing your DPS you shave off healers with the Chloro being last. The Chloro is last because the Chloro is the only healer that has Wild Growth + Living Energy and does the most DPS while being able to Tank heal and raid heal. You would go with a Chloro over a Phy/Tact because the Chloro does in a order of magnitude more DPS than the Phy/Tact.

    Give Liberator (or another healer) Wild Growth + Living Energy and now you can swap out that Mage if you need to (short on mages, mages want to tank, whatever) and still run with the Wild Growth + Living Energy from a healer. The only thing in this situation you'd be giving up is several thousand of DPS from the Chloro but you are not hurting the raid by loosing the Chloro.
    win/win.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    There you go again trying to derail ths thread about Wild Growth and Living Energy being duplicated to another healing soul has nothing to do with Bard vs Oracle or Chloro's in PVP.
    Living energy will always be present in a raid due to archon/bard/oracle/beastmaster. There is absolutely no need to give it to any healing soul since it exists in support souls that will always be present.



    I made it bigger so you'd see it.


    As for Wild growth.

    Phys/tactician already has it.
    Phys/tact is a healing spec.
    So...what you're screaming about already exists, and given the fact that Cleric's hold the most optimal roles, why aren't you calling foul there?
    Last edited by Katosu; 05-25-2014 at 04:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    Reread my previous post concerning these "unique cooldowns" of defilers and others. Other classes have similar (Phy, Lib) cooldowns do some research already :P.
    Similar =/= the same.
    Just as Necromancer cannot fulfill the same role as a Defiler.
    There are abilities and cooldowns that are unique in nature and this is perfectly acceptable because that is the intent of the game's design.

    As such, there is no need to have wild growth be transferred to any other healing soul since its not only part of what makes Chloromancer unique, but also because you find the same unique behavior/gameplay in every other soul in the game in one form or another.

    On top of this, phys/tact has power core.
    So at this point, you're essentally demanding that there be a healer soul exactly like Chloromancer.
    Which makes no sense since Chloromancer is already present.

    It fulfill the steady healing niche.
    Clerics fill burst healing niche.

    I think the game is perfectly fine and isn't in danger of inflexible composition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    When's the last time you've done any raid content without a Chloro? Even farm content where you are maximizing your DPS you shave off healers with the Chloro being last. The Chloro is last because the Chloro is the only healer that has Wild Growth and does the most DPS while being able to Tank heal and raid heal. You would go with a Chloro over a Phy/Tact because the Chloro does in a order of magnitude more DPS than the Phy/Tact.
    I like the exaggeration's you make. Its like reading the PvP forum.
    You don't shave off the Chloro because during farming runs, spike damage is handled by the larger health pools the raid possesses.
    Not because there is no spike damage.

    If the boss hits the raid for 10k and your health pools are 15k, you're not going to give up a Warden.
    If the boss hits for 10k and everyone has 100k health, you'll give up the Warden because eventually, the healer's will catch up as HPS is capped.

    Furthermore, you are ignoring the fact that your order of magnitute is relative.
    In reality, its a couple thousand DPS that can easily be given up without affecting your run in a meaningful way.

    Which is fine because if you had a soul that performed exactly like a Chloromancer, then why would you have a Chloromancer?
    Your proposal is no that you want a healing soul with wild growth.
    Its that you want a healing soul with wild growth AND Chloromancer DPS.
    This is genuinely bad for balance because then you'd never bring a Chloromancer. Ever.
    Sustained healing is not what encounters are designed around its burst damage, and both Lib/warden can fulfill that lost HPS by themselves.

    So if you are going to do that, then you might as well do the same for Defiler and every other spec.
    No soul can substitute for defiler.
    No soul can substitute for a Warden or Liberator.
    No soul should be a perfect substitute for a Chloromancer.
    That makes the game healthy because it means people's choices can matter, and also creates diversity for the game.

    At the moment, it does not cause any design problems and as such, there is no need to change it without also changing everyone else in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    Give Liberator (or another healer) Wild Growth + Living Energy and now you can swap out that Mage if you need to (short on mages, mages want to tank, whatever) and still run with the Wild Growth + Living Energy from a healer. The only thing in this situation you'd be giving up is several thousand of DPS from the Chloro but you are not hurting the raid by loosing the Chloro.
    win/win.
    Physician/tactician does this already.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    Reread my previous post concerning these "unique cooldowns" of defilers and others. Other classes have similar (Phy, Lib) cooldowns do some research already :P.



    When's the last time you've done any raid content without a Chloro? Even farm content where you are maximizing your DPS you shave off healers with the Chloro being last. The Chloro is last because the Chloro is the only healer that has Wild Growth + Living Energy and does the most DPS while being able to Tank heal and raid heal. You would go with a Chloro over a Phy/Tact because the Chloro does in a order of magnitude more DPS than the Phy/Tact.

    Give Liberator (or another healer) Wild Growth + Living Energy and now you can swap out that Mage if you need to (short on mages, mages want to tank, whatever) and still run with the Wild Growth + Living Energy from a healer. The only thing in this situation you'd be giving up is several thousand of DPS from the Chloro but you are not hurting the raid by loosing the Chloro.
    win/win.

    You can swap a Phys/Tact for a Chloro without losing anything but the Chloro's personal DPS.

    If this thread were merely about whether or not Chloros are irreplacable, it would already be over. The only reason you're still arguing is because you have a childlike sense of self-entitlement that demands the develepors hand you all the shiny toys so you can be best at everything.

    The cognitive dissonance you've shown is staggering. For example: it is not possible for you to suggest moving Wild Growth onto liberator without also suggesting that defiler's link utility and all healing and cooldowns associated with it be moved to Necromancer. You tried to argue that this isn't a fair comparison because necromancer is already a sub-optimal replacement for defiler, thus giving the raid options, while you simultaneously said that phys/tact having power-core to replace wild-growth wasn't an option because it was sub-optimal compared to chloro.

    This is the definition of self serving hypocrisy, and this behavior is why, when I had the audacity to claim to speak for the entire forum while insulting you, no one corrected me.

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    DASMANI!
    Do it
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

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    If it's already that way, what's the problem with giving it to a actual 61pt heal soul?


    Children, calm down and take a breath. Phy/Tact is a hybrid spec that may or may not get nerfed in the future. The only 61pt healing soul in this game with Wild Growth and Living Energy is currently Chloro. That is why there is always at least one Chloro in the raid. They bring Wild Growth+Living Energy+Personal DPS+Great AOE heals or ST heals.

    This thread is because based on patterns via Necro, Beastmaster, Arbitior, Liberator, Physician, and Oracle Trion is doing the smart thing by making it so you don't "have" to have a specific class for 100% of the content. You can substitute one class for another if you are short on a specific class instead of not being able to do it. Adding a alternate to what the chloro brings is the natural progression of this game.

    Didn't realize I was talking to kids.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    If it's already that way, what's the problem with giving it to a actual 61pt heal soul?
    And this is what we refer to as moving goal posts. It also completely shoots down and shows as complete BS the quote of yours I posted where you said you did not care where they placed it. Now you are raising the bar again so you can say...."see 61 pt...Cleric is good for that right?"

    In order to try and support this you need to revert to complete conjecture

    Children, calm down and take a breath. Phy/Tact is a hybrid spec that may or may not get nerfed in the future.
    And you have the nerve to call other people children.

    The only 61pt healing soul in this game with Wild Growth and Living Energy is currently Chloro.
    and again you have moved your goal post because of the quote I posted earlier and your numerous other statements where without qualification you complained ONLY Cloro had it and someone else should bring it. Hell for pages you tried to deny this and say that the hybrid soul was a sup-par build.

    That is why there is always at least one Chloro in the raid.
    and you have at least 2 Cleric healers in the raid. This again is a point you keep blatantly ignoring.

    In essence this is you in support of your argument

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    And this is what we refer to as moving goal posts. It also completely shoots down and shows as complete BS the quote of yours I posted where you said you did not care where they placed it. Now you are raising the bar again so you can say...."see 61 pt...Cleric is good for that right?"

    In order to try and support this you need to revert to complete conjecture



    And you have the nerve to call other people children.
    Don't act like a child and throw fit's if you don't want to be treated as one. I don't care where they duplicate Wild Growth + Living Energy. Give them to one of the cleric healing souls, give them to Lib, or give them to Phy. I'm pretty sure I've repeated this directly to you many times.

    and again you have moved your goal post because of the quote I posted earlier and your numerous other statements where without qualification you complained ONLY Cloro had it and someone else should bring it. Hell for pages you tried to deny this and say that the hybrid soul was a sup-par build.
    Name another healing soul that has Wild Growth and Living Energy. I'm patient, take your time and try and pay attention this time. Healing soul (singular) does not meant healing soul+DPS soul hybrid (as 2 soul's combined

    and you have at least 2 Cleric healers in the raid. This again is a point you keep blatantly ignoring.

    In essence this is you in support of your argument

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro
    I'm not ignoring that for some raids you have at least 2 cleric healers in the raid. We have 3 healing souls which I have pointed out to you, makes sense that Trion would make content that would require multiple healers. I've also taken the time to point out to you that you have 1 healing soul. That 1 healing soul is required for 1-2 of the healing spots. 1 soul. 1 soul for 2 spots. Cleric has 3 souls. 3 souls for 0-3 spots. See what I'm trying to explain to you? Give Liberator (or another healing soul) Wild Growth and Living Energy and now you have Options. The Mage class with 1 healing soul. 1 soul. 1 soul is now required for 0-2 of the healing spots.

    Just like all the other healing souls. It's about giving the raid options. Something that is blatantly obvious to me that you and a few other's are against.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    If it's already that way, what's the problem with giving it to a actual 61pt heal soul?


    Children, calm down and take a breath. Phy/Tact is a hybrid spec that may or may not get nerfed in the future. The only 61pt healing soul in this game with Wild Growth and Living Energy is currently Chloro. That is why there is always at least one Chloro in the raid. They bring Wild Growth+Living Energy+Personal DPS+Great AOE heals or ST heals.

    This thread is because based on patterns via Necro, Beastmaster, Arbitior, Liberator, Physician, and Oracle Trion is doing the smart thing by making it so you don't "have" to have a specific class for 100% of the content. You can substitute one class for another if you are short on a specific class instead of not being able to do it. Adding a alternate to what the chloro brings is the natural progression of this game.

    Didn't realize I was talking to kids.
    The only 61-point soul that has three links plus unstable transformation is defiler. Therefore, by your logic, we need another 61 point soul with three links plus unstable transformation.

    The only 61-point build that has notable single target shielding is puri. By your logic, it would be perfectly fine if chloromancer could tank shield as well as a purifier.

    You can't play sides here. If you suggest changes to make competitive substitutions for chloro, you have to propose similar changes to make competitive substitutions for cleric souls that are currently irreplacable for progression.

    Otherwise you're being an irrational whiny hypocrite.

    Which is what you're being.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    If it's already that way, what's the problem with giving it to a actual 61pt heal soul?
    Does it really need to be repeated?
    There are three issues that appear with your proposal.

    1. An option already exists. One that is sub-optimal just like every other option for Defiler, Puri, Oracle. This is acceptable and clearly within design intent. Ignoring the fact that the only thing a phys/tact cannot do is main tank heal.

    2. Your proposal is also self serving. You demand there be an optimal variant, but you do not demand an optimal variant for Defiler, Oracle and the others. This suggests bias, and also suggests that you acknowledge the pressure on Chloro which is


    3. Chloro lacks burst healing. It also lacks cooldowns and cannot cross heal through veils. The only traits it brings is higher heal DPS, steady healing, and wild growth. The DPS is a non-factor. The steady healing is unnecessary. Wild growth is the only thing.

    This means literally the only reason you'd bring a Chloro is for a couple thousand DPS. A completely unimportant factor relative to the raid's whole.

    That is bad design, and would warrant altering Chloro beyond just give WG to someone else.
    The other healer souls dont need WG because they don't have the weakness Chloro's have to justify their ownage of WG.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    Phy/Tact is a hybrid spec that may or may not get nerfed in the future.
    Irrelevant, we deal with the now.
    Who is to say Defiler, oracle, Warden, Sentinel, and Purifier may get nerfed in the future?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    They bring Wild Growth+Personal DPS
    I altered it accordingly given that Veil swapping is so rare it isn't really a factor in anything.
    Wg and its personal DPS are the only thing.

    You then have phys/tact which brings WG, so the only thing you're taking when it comes to a Chloro is for its personal DPS. Which is only a couple K.

    What you are demanding is that there be a CHloro copy.
    One that provides WG AND provides its DPS.
    Otherwise, you would have dropped your argument as soon as phys/tact was mentioned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    This thread is because based on patterns via Necro, Beastmaster, Arbitior, Liberator, Physician, and Oracle Trion is doing the smart thing by making it so you don't "have" to have a specific class for 100% of the content. You can substitute one class for another if you are short on a specific class instead of not being able to do it. Adding a alternate to what the chloro brings is the natural progression of this game.
    Not sure if you are serious.
    The only one's listed that are remotely similar are Oracle and Beastmaster.
    This is almost entirely because support is designated as someone who provides the raid buffs/debuffs.
    On top of this, Beastmaster has Enrage, Archon does not.
    Archon has lava field but Beastmaster does not.

    That is unique. That is like Wild growth.
    Oracle provides an AoE cleanse and shields that Brd does not.
    It also has superior DPS.
    It entirely displaces Bard and more than likely will be nerfed so that the only thing it provides is shields.
    This is unique.
    That is like Wild growth.

    Liberator is similar to Warden, but does not provides the same DPS and cooldowns.
    That is unique to Physician.

    Physician is similar to Puri/Sent, but does not have flame of life.
    They are similar, but not the same.
    Puri is unique.

    Every single soul you have listed has a unique ability that the other does not share.
    Puri has Flame of life.
    Archon has lava field.
    Beastmaster has Enrage.
    Oracle has shields.
    Chloromancer has WIld growth to compensate for its lack of cd's and inability to properly crossheal and self heal itself.


    That is unique, that is balanced in regards to the other healers. They complete each other and ensure that at least 1 of every class will go to a raid. This is excellent design because it means someone will always be able to find their way into a raid instead of worrying about total displacement.

    That is balance, and that is Trion's design intent.
    Deal with it.

    I did not realize that adult handled themselves like my 4 year old sister.
    Last edited by Katosu; 05-25-2014 at 07:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by wickede View Post
    please just stop posting your misinformation here
    Quote Originally Posted by Wickede
    how often you "snipe heals" is also important

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumnoch View Post
    Don't act like a child and throw fit's if you don't want to be treated as one. I don't care where they duplicate Wild Growth + Living Energy. Give them to one of the cleric healing souls, give them to Lib, or give them to Phy. I'm pretty sure I've repeated this directly to you many times.
    I am not throwing fits you are. You called other people children simply for daring to point out the errors of your argument with facts rather than the subjective views you paint as facts.

    When you look at people who contradict you, you seem to end up projecting your frustration, anger and fits onto them. This is actually a classic passive aggressive trait...someone who projects their own aggression in order to deny theirs

    Name another healing soul that has Wild Growth and Living Energy. I'm patient, take your time and try and pay attention this time. Healing soul (singular) does not meant healing soul+DPS soul hybrid (as 2 soul's combined
    This is for all intents and purposes a strawman argument. Why? Because it is NOT whether they come in one soul that is important but whether they are readily available. It is actually humerous that your argument has evolved to this point. First you blatantly denied that either could be brought effectively to raid. You seemed to eventually cave in on LE but continued to try and dodge the WG issue as it relates to Power Core and you fought SOLELY over that issue.

    -1st you tried to say it was a tac ability and tacs weren't healers.
    -2nd then how it was a hybrid and didn't count
    -3rd how it was an OP hybrid that would be nerfed (both conjecture and untrue, the op bit).
    -4th then you said "well name a 61 point soul that has it"
    -5th now it's name one soul that has both.



    I'm not ignoring that for some raids you have at least 2 cleric healers in the raid. We have 3 healing souls which I have pointed out to you, makes sense that Trion would make content that would require multiple healers. I've also taken the time to point out to you that you have 1 healing soul. That 1 healing soul is required for 1-2 of the healing spots...
    And this is again where your primary problem is identified. Trion does not balance around individual souls. Why do you think when this game launched they made Cloro both a tank and raid healer and have maintained this? Because when it comes to balance Trion looks at callings. Trion says "Mage healer" and "Cleric Healer" NOT "Cloro" and "Warden, Puri, Sent, Defiler." As such the self serving metric you are using is not the one Trion is using for balance. You need 2-3 Cleric healers to raid. 1-2 mage healers to raid... this is how Trion has balanced since launch. Now maybe since you have been here less than a year you are unaware of this fact but having been here since closed testing I know as FACT that it is how Trion chose to balance.

    You could actually replace one of those two Mage healers right this minute with a Rogue healer. You could NOT replace a Puri or a defiler with anyone...A Physician will do in a pinch but does not provide the shields and the heals lack the burst of Sent to compensate and a Puri will dps it into the ground. Nothing replaces a Defiler and neither a Mage nor a Rogue can replace a warden either. A Warrior could replace a Warden in a pinch BUT he lacks the raw burst potential of a Warden.

    Just like all the other healing souls. It's about giving the raid options. Something that is blatantly obvious to me that you and a few other's are against.
    And again with the passive aggressive behavior. It is not about giving a raid options because in doing what you propose, simply giving a Cleric healer the abilities would then simply make it so people say "who needs a Cloro" unless they changed things because from a healing stand point a Warden and a Sentinel can replace a Cloro but a Cloro can NOT replace them. So in the end you create options in your corner of the game while screwing an entire calling over for your benefit.
    Last edited by Galibier; 05-25-2014 at 11:14 PM.
    Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

  14. #224
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    I think its because there was someone I think his/hers name is Ahola or something whom keeps saying Chloro is OP, and many of his/hers cleric followers believes w/e he/she says must be correct. Chloro being the only "Living Energy exclusive" healing soul proves exactly what he or she said. Hence either chloros need to be nerfed or cleric healers need to be buffed to include Living Energy in their arsenal.

    Is his/hers arguments correct? I have no idea.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasmani View Post
    The only 61-point soul that has three links plus unstable transformation is defiler. Therefore, by your logic, we need another 61 point soul with three links plus unstable transformation.
    Sure give Necro's 3 links. Now give another healing soul Wild Growth + Living Energy. Phy (the cleric healing souls rolled into 1 + some) already has a very nice 61pt ability similar to Defiler's UT.

    The only 61-point build that has notable single target shielding is puri. By your logic, it would be perfectly fine if chloromancer could tank shield as well as a purifier.
    Phy has shields so fight with them over it. What does Links or Shields have to do with Raid DPS increasers in a healing soul?

    You can't play sides here. If you suggest changes to make competitive substitutions for chloro, you have to propose similar changes to make competitive substitutions for cleric souls that are currently irreplacable for progression.

    Otherwise you're being an irrational whiny hypocrite.

    Which is what you're being.
    So now you're admitting that the Chloro is irreplaceable. That's a start I guess. Odd that you think progression is the only form of raiding. Guess you're saying a big FU to any casual guild huh? Giving Wild Growth + Living Energy to another healing soul would only be a good thing as it wouldn't effect your raid force at all. It would allow other guild's more options though. Kind of like what they did with Beastmaster, Phy, Lib, Oracle, oh and Arbitior :P

    The only things I've heard from any of you is they shouldn't give Wild Growth and Living Energy to another healing soul because:

    - Defiler has links
    - There's a version of Wild Growth in a DPS soul that Rogues can give up some powerful ST cooldowns to get.
    - Puri has a shield
    - Chloro's would become the worse choice.


    - Defiler links has nothing to do with the raids DPS.
    - The Phy/Tact combo is considered by many to be broken at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if it was nerfed into the ground in a month which is the issue I raised. Hybrids are far more likely to get nerfed or "adjusted" than a 61pt build.
    - Shields have nothing to do with the raids DPS.
    - Chloro's would not change at all. They would still be the preferred healer and be required to fill either 1 or 2 of the raid's total healing spots because nothing for them has changed and none of the other healing souls come close to the Chloro's personal DPS.

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