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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: New Soul Feedback - Oracle

  1.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #1
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    Default New Soul Feedback - Oracle

    Hey all,

    As you may have heard we’re opening up the new souls for testing on PTS to everyone. The souls are available in the dummy foundry on the Mr. SL Raid 1 merchant. In order to get to this merchant you will need to set your dungeon difficulty to Master and click the bear trap object in Tempest Bay, Sanctum or Meridian.

    This thread is primarily for feedback on the Oracle soul. We’re looking for any sort of feedback you might have and of course any bugs you might find with the soul. One thing to be aware of heading into this is the soul isn’t finalized yet. There are still some tweaks and adjustments being done and parts of the soul could still change prior to it reaching Live. I'll update this thread with any changes to the soul as they happen.

    We’re also planning on moderating this thread a bit more than most threads are. As such here are a few reminders:
    1. This thread is for the discussion of the Oracle soul. Discussion about hybrids and how Oracle works or impacts other souls is great, but please keep discussion focused on other souls to threads outside of this one.
    2. Keep feedback constructive. If you don’t like a particular ability or aspect of the soul, that’s fine. Feel free to make those posts, but give us your reasons.

    Thanks ahead of time to everyone for your feedback. Hopefully you enjoy the new soul.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    May increase the duration increase of Insignia of Protection to 7.5/15sec through Vital Swiftness or just let Vital Swiftness increase the base duration of Insignia of Protection by 10sec without using EoA.

    Right now you would use 3sec to get a 26 sec duration of IoP with EoA and without EoA you would get 32 sec duration(also fits better in the dps rotation).

    Edit: Corrosive Insignia also double dips with Tainted Blood....I forgot to check this the last time sry :<
    Edit#2: Could be the shielding part of Defend the Fallen named Fallen Protection or something like that so you could track the dmg buff part?
    repost from the 3.0 section as a reminder and an example

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    RIFT Guide Writer Burninalways's Avatar
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    I would change it so when you learn a new Emblem the buff you gain from it slowly stacks on you, Max 4 stacks. Though different Emblems can have different stacks.
    Instead of having to cast one to enhance another.

    Forcing the user to play the soul slowly in order to gain more damage or healing, rather than smashing buttons as fast as possible.

    You can have it as a passive modifier in the soul:
    All Emblems now apply their buff on to the Cleric every 3s. Emblem of Alacrity, Max 2 stacks. Emblem of Ice, Max 4 stacks. Emblem of Pain, Max 6 stacks.
    Stacks cannot be consumed by Emblems. Cannot be Purged.

    Emblem of Alacrity & Ice would now have to have cooldowns to them, though given how they are now cooldowns could better and as they would have cooldowns their base damage would increase.

    So a second part to that passive modifier:
    Emblem of Alacrity damage is increases by 20% and has a 8 second cooldown. Emblem of Ice damage is increases by 10% and has a 4 second cooldown.

    I would put it at tier 4 passive (requires 15 points in oracle) require 1 point, and change Tainted Blood need for 2 points to 1.
    Last edited by Burninalways; 03-17-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Jelan's Avatar
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    Little heads up to let people know that Magelo has an updated PTS calculator with the new souls in order to help you out testing, sharing and posting builds. Should hopefully prove to be a useful resource.

    > Magelo PTS Soultree calculator

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    RIFT Guide Writer Noshei's Avatar
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    Bug:

    The tooltip amount of absorb provided by Insignia of Protection (from the actual absorb buff) is about 500 less than what the ability tooltip says it should be (the debuff is also a different value). For me the ability says 2204, the buff says 1689, and the debuff says 2372.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Noshei's Avatar
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    Also, should Insignia's that are not effected by Emblem of Alacrity (aka, instant cast) consume it? I feel like it should only be consumed if it will actually have an effect on the ability that consumes it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noshei View Post
    Also, should Insignia's that are not effected by Emblem of Alacrity (aka, instant cast) consume it? I feel like it should only be consumed if it will actually have an effect on the ability that consumes it.
    I'll fix that up. A previous version of Emblem of Alacrity had a benefit for instant abilities as well and that was never fully removed. I'll get it fixed so instant abilities will no longer consume the buff. However, Insignia of Protection will still consume it if you have points spent in Vital Swiftness.

    I'll take a look at Insignia of Protection and see what I can do about getting the tooltips to show better values.

    Vladd and I have talked some about what changes are needed when comparing Oracle and Bard. We're currently leaning towards buffs for Bard, but haven't settled on anything solid just yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    Vladd and I have talked some about what changes are needed when comparing Oracle and Bard. We're currently leaning towards buffs for Bard, but haven't settled on anything solid just yet.
    Is this something you plan to fix before 2.7 goes live?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kervik View Post
    I'll fix that up. A previous version of Emblem of Alacrity had a benefit for instant abilities as well and that was never fully removed. I'll get it fixed so instant abilities will no longer consume the buff. However, Insignia of Protection will still consume it if you have points spent in Vital Swiftness.

    I'll take a look at Insignia of Protection and see what I can do about getting the tooltips to show better values.

    Vladd and I have talked some about what changes are needed when comparing Oracle and Bard. We're currently leaning towards buffs for Bard, but haven't settled on anything solid just yet.
    I would love for Bard to be buffed and not Oracle nerfed, just saying

    Also, Discerning Wave...any chance it could be made instant? Not a huge fan of the channeled abilities like that (like Unleash Oblivion and Wave of Renewal) rather they be instant or just plain cast time = 1 GCD abilities.

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    So far i like the Oracle tree but it seems really disjointed in areas specifically the relationship between emblems and certain other abilities that i explained below. The utility of a cleanse and a bit higher dps are the only things i can find that this soul has over a bard support while bard provides reactive healing which is > shielding that is limited by 10 second ICD's and chance procs.


    Buffs – Would really like to see Inspirations, Favors, and Boons on a 1 second global. 9 seconds worth of buffs is fairly intense especially if a death occurred and you have to consider another 9 seconds for debuff application requirements of a 60 Second Corroded Defense + 2 x 30 second Curses.

    Oversight – Much less value in the oracle tree than what a bard gets out of Multiple Oscillations. The salvation build is the only thing that really benefits from Oversight as the 10 second limitations of Insignia of Protection really drain it's effectiveness. The damage output doesn't justify it's spot this high in the tree imo.

    Insignia of Protection – The value of the shield when it procs is displaying for a much lower value than the IoP tooltip suggests.

    Emblems/Corroded Defense – I am not sure what the intentions of emblems are but overall it seems odd to have them affect Corroded Defense's duration. Drawing comparison from bard, Oracle's have to alter their rotation each minute just to get the Emblem's stacked for a 60 second Corroded when a bard simply does 5 combo points > Jeopardy. It feels to me like the emblems must of played a much larger role at one point and now they are just there acting as a random requirement with slight variations between them to fit a priority rotation. I could be doing something entirely wrong though.

    Icy Cascade – I have the same complaint with this as Corroded Defense. The emblem bonus doesn't make sense to me as the emblems are rarely ever up together all at once unless you are trying to lose dps. Also, why is there such a long cooldown on this ability? At most it should be 6 seconds.
    Last edited by haybale; 03-18-2014 at 04:39 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    So far i like the Oracle tree but it seems really disjointed in areas specifically the relationship between emblems and certain other abilities that i explained below. The utility of a cleanse and a bit higher dps are the only things i can find that this soul has over a bard support while bard provides reactive healing which is > shielding that is limited by 10 second ICD's and chance procs.
    On new fights before people have good gear the extra 3k shield is going to be very useful if not required to survive raid damage mechanics.

    Currently you can get around the 10sec icd by recasting IoS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accol View Post
    On new fights before people have good gear the extra 3k shield is going to be very useful if not required to survive raid damage mechanics.

    Currently you can get around the 10sec icd by recasting IoS.
    I understand that point but you are basing that all on chance to proc and assuming the ICD isnt in effect. I wouldn't take that as a required ability. Useful yes. I assume the bypass will be fixed before going live.
    Last edited by haybale; 03-18-2014 at 12:23 PM.

  13. #13
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    Definitely agree that emblems are at an odd spot.

    Spec used in calculation: http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree/p...kGBh0/n8s/U8p0 (61 Oracle/8 Inquisitor/7 Defiler)

    Using my live gear, which gave me the following stats in the foundry:
    7042 SP
    2810 Crit (22.30% crit base. 33.30% crit with lethal + earthen barrage + motif of focus/inspiration of battle)
    1192 CP (42.5%)

    DPCT of abilities:

    Corrosive Insignia - 24398.79
    Insignia of Blood - 9611.62 (19223.25 talented)
    Wasting Insignia - 17893.19
    Glacial Insignia - 17893.19

    Emblem of Pain, Base: 8619.885
    Agony: 3134.028
    60% of Agony:1880.417
    Total for Emblem of Pain: 13634.33

    Emblem of Alacrity: 9376.577
    Emblem of Ice: 8619.885

    BOD: 14441.9 (Note, 2.0 sec cast)
    Sanction Heretic + Sanction: 14440.6
    Vex: 15885.96

    Siphon Vitality: 14441.9

    Spreadsheet which shows how these numbers were calculated can be found at http://finella.nemissa.info/dump/oracle.ods

    The most obvious issue is that an untalented Siphon Vitality, Sanction Heretic and Vex are doing more damage than a fully talented Emblem of Pain.

    Similar issues appears if we swap the subsouls for Druid and Cabalist, where Combined Effort, Curse of Discord, Dark Water all have higher DPCT than most Oracle abilities.

    ----

    The other issue which is known is that because Insignia of Blood is so high in DPCT that you have to use it every other GCD, which means that in a typical 30 sec block of 20 GCD:

    - 10 GCD used by IoB
    - 1 GCD used by Corrosive Insignia
    - 2 GCD used by Glacial Insignia
    - 2 GCD used by Wasting Insignia
    - 2 GCD by Vex
    - 2 GCD by Sanction Heretic
    - 1 GCD by Siphon Vitality or Emblem of Pain

    ----

    Emblem of Ice's secondary effect is also pretty weak.

    EoI + IoB = 8619.89 + (19223.25*1.2) = 31687.79
    EOP + IoB = 13634.33 + 19223.25 = 32857.58

    EoP is already hardly used in a spec with sufficient "fillers" from other soul. EoI is in an even worse state.

    ----

    Next thing is we have various DOT duration. Agony is 6 second, Corrosive/Wasting is 15 seconds, Blood is 3 seconds. Really wish for these to be standardized to a common timer.

    ----

    Tying to the aboive point, Battle Fury's GCD reduction make the current clucky rotation/dot maintenance cycle even clunkier. We removed temporal GCD reduction abilities from every warrior DPS soul, storm caller and recently Cabalist. Why do we reintroduce it back to Oracle?

    ----

    List of Suggestions:

    Emblem of Pain
    --------------------
    - Reworked: Deals X to Y Death damage. Applies Emblem of Pain to the Cleric, causing the next non-Emblem single target damaging ability to apply Agony. When Agony reaches 4 stacks, it explodes, dealing Z damage

    Tainted Blood
    --------------------
    - Reworked: Your insignia ability deals an additional 10/20% of your spell power as death damage for each emblem it consumes.

    Emblem of Alacrity
    --------------------
    - Reworked: Deals X to Y Water damage. Applies Emblem of Alacrity to the Cleric, reducing the cast time of their next damaging or healing non-Emblem ability by 0.5s, its mana cost by 33% and cause it to ignore 10% of the target's resist.

    Vital Swiftness
    --------------------
    - Reworked: Increase the cast time reduction of Emblem of Alacrity by 1/2 seconds, and the resist penetration bonus by 10/20%.

    Talented Emblem of Alacrity will reduce the cast time of the next non-Emblem ability by 2.5 seconds, mana cost by 33% and resist penetration by 30%. This will still make it useful to be used for instant abilities, and doesn't mess with GCD timings.

    Glacial Insignia
    -----------------
    - Make it 15 seconds CD by default.

    Ice Melt
    ---------
    - Position swapped with Empowered. Empower is now tier 6, Ice Melt tier 8. Reworked: Reduce the global cooldown of Death and Water abilities to 1.25/1.0 seconds.


    Corrosive Insignia
    --------------------
    - Reduce CD to 15 seconds and make it oGCD.

    Battle Fury
    --------------------
    - Reworked: Instantly applies all known Emblems. Resets and reduces the cooldown of the Cleric's Insignia to 0, and increase their damage by 30%. Prevents abilities from consuming Emblems. Lasts 10s.

    --------------------------------------------------

    With these suggestion, you want to do a cycle of 3 emblem -> consume emblem with an insignia ability, which IMO makes more sense than the current IoB -> filler -> repeat rotation.

    EoP -> EoA -> EoI -> Corrosive (3 GCD, 1 oGCD, total: 3 seconds)
    EOP -> EoA -> EoI -> Glacial (4 GCD, 4 seconds)
    EOP -> EoA -> EoI -> Wasting (4 GCD, 4 seconds)
    EOP -> EoA -> EoI -> Blood (4 GCD, 4 seconds)

    Total: 15 seconds. Everything lines up cleanly and doesn't require the use of subsouls ability.

    Summary
    ----------
    Emblems will be an active and vital part of an oracle rotation again with the proposed changes, instead of pretty much being ignored and used as a DPS filler. Numbers have to be adjusted etc, but IMO this is a much more intuitive way to play Oracle than the ignore all emblems and just IoB -> filler repeated ad nauseam we currently have on PTS.

    --------------------------

    Other QOL stuff:

    Vital Swiftness
    -----------------
    Simply just make it extend the duration of Insignia of Protection. Feels really weird to have to cast EoA each time we want to put up IoP.
    Last edited by Finella; 03-18-2014 at 08:13 PM.

  14. #14
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    I think battle fury should be extended to 15 seconds with the gcd reduction removed but i like all the ideas. The 1 second global change was confusing to me as well after the stated problems in the cab rotation. Emblems are bad mmmk.
    Last edited by haybale; 03-18-2014 at 01:13 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant Soulshield's Avatar
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    Feels like Emblem of Pain somehow lost too much dmg with the last dmg nerfs.
    You would have to move the additional dmg from Agony in Tempered Elements to 100% to get it on the same lv as Vex.

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