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Thread: warden healing - healing cataract spam?

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default warden healing - healing cataract spam?

    I ran with a pug into FT got to Zaviel with a few wipes.. However during this fight we had 2 chloride and 2wardens and me purifier to begin with, warden for the last pull..

    I noticed the other wardens spamming hc with a slight addition of a few he's and the odd pool if restoration, ofc when the dance begins they die every time.. Noting they didn't attack the boss once for dangers of the deep., and yet their healing was 1-2k higher than mine (and their overheating was about 10k/s) I worry that maybe my understanding of the class was wrong..

    We're these guys bad? Or was it me that was slacking?

    I was keeping ss on the tank and rippling to the offhand and using monsoon, por and even wave of renewal during the power conducting. I know I could have done a few hc's as well but was preserving mana jic. I do hold my hands up to forgetting dotd myself until mid pull but I was adjusting from puri to warden (well that's my excuse and I am sticking to it)

    Was I wrong? we're they right?

  2. #2
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Seatin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeDemoggs View Post
    I was keeping ss on the tank and rippling to the offhand

    Was I wrong? we're they right?
    I think that's what you were doing wrong, it's really not worth it at all healing wise, it takes ages to get and maintain all the hots, espcially on single target. Soothing Stream and Healing spray are useless in my opinion.

    The other guy sounds like he was on the right track, but not 'quite' there.

    If you're a Warden, your whole soul is focused around big burst AOE healing, that should be your focus.

    IMHO only 8 healing abilities should be used as Warden -

    1. Healing Cataract
    2. Pool of Restoration
    3. Healing Effusions
    4. Wave of Renewal
    5. Geyser
    6. Tidal Surge + Monsoon
    7. Orbs of the Tide
    8. Healing Flood (Every 15s and only when the raid is fully topped)
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  3. #3
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    Hi,

    first of all, warden is not a tank healer, keeping hots on tank is just big waste of time, one healing breath + orb will do the job better, unless of course warden is the only healer in raid, which is not the case on zaviel. It is job of chloros or puri to keep tanks up. So thats probably reason they were above you ...
    HC spam is not bad thing if raid damage is minor and you wanna conserve your mana, however you should keep 5 stacks by using geyser or any damage spell (I prefer spamming geyser all the time with dots, cause I feel I contribute more this way than just standing there casting hots on tank).

  4. #4
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    Yeah I understand that, I only hotted the tanks as I was the purifier previously and had found the tanks were using my latent blaze regularly.. As if the chloro's weren't 100% on top of the healing.. So I felt I should lend a hand.

    When I changed to warden I felt I should have kept a little healing assist on the tanks and do the_burst aoe healing with the abilities you mentioned.. I wasn't really needed for sustained aoe healing any way.

    All I thought was, on a boss where you have to move or die.. A cast time spell would have not been the spell of choice.. They obviously did not use the other bursts heals enough as until I went warden, people were dying (even with purifier shields) during the conductor phases.

    Thanks though I know I need to work on my warden and your tips seem helpful

  5. #5
    Champion of Telara Hikos's Avatar
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    Everything in this thread gives me a headache.

    For real.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara TheDoomgiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikos View Post
    Everything in this thread gives me a headache.

    For real.
    so why dont you contribute something?

    for zaviel, have pool of restoration and healing effusion handy for the "running" phase. make sure you have full mana and your mana pot/tonic is off CD BEFORE you begin that phase!!! you will be doing 80% of the healing there, as the chloros wont get time to cast their healing spells most of that phase.

    also, if possible, try to have all your major skills are off CD before that phase.
    i do one little trick, right before she announces "run while you can", i start channeling wave of renewal. by the time i finish the channel, im ready to run, and when the first raid damage hits in the next few seconds, my contracting wave hits the raid again, healing everyone.

    other than that, healing cataract is fine. downpour is not that good, unless you have the anti-pushback from sentinel. the best thing you can do as a warden is to "time" her attacks, its far better to stop for a GCD or two, to sync up with raid damage, than to spam cataract all the time and waste most of it to overhealing.

    im not a perfect warden by any means, but this is what i find most effective.

    any tips to help/improve further would be appreciated.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoomgiver View Post
    downpour is not that good, unless you have the anti-pushback from sentinel. ..
    Quoting this because its a misconception, Firstly sentinel anti-pushback doesn't affect channeled spells only casted ones, so has no effect on downpour.

    Secondly downpour is awesome, especially with tidal surge, but only if all the people you need to heal are with its area of effect, (15m Radius of where you place it)

    Good wardening in my eyes is maximising the use of tidal surge, at least 2-3 uses per minute if not 4, either with burst heals like monsoon/pools/downpour/orbs or call the depths for more deeps. So spend as many GCD's dps'ing (refreshing TS as possible) and not messing about overhealing people who don't need it because bard/justicar/chloro splash will cover them anyway.

    TLR Don't waste GCD's trying to compete on HPS, when you can be dps'ing and maxing use of tidal surge instead.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


  8. #8
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Riane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    1. Healing Cataract
    2. Pool of Restoration
    3. Healing Effusions
    4. Wave of Renewal
    5. Geyser
    6. Tidal Surge + Monsoon
    7. Orbs of the Tide
    8. Healing Flood (Every 15s and only when the raid is fully topped)
    Most fights (excl Volan/Abom) don't even need to utilize Healing Cataract. I'd give it less priority because it's a waste of a cast when that damage will be healed up by another Chloro and even if you're solo healing, HE and/or a POR will cover that just fine and you can maintain your ample DPS.

    Maybe back in the day (SL launch), I'd say it should be a priority by now there are much better ways to keep your party up and casting HC is not one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoomgiver View Post
    for zaviel, have pool of restoration and healing effusion handy for the "running" phase. make sure you have full mana and your mana pot/tonic is off CD BEFORE you begin that phase!!! you will be doing 80% of the healing there, as the chloros wont get time to cast their healing spells most of that phase..
    Spamming Withering Vines still procs LGV. There's also still Ruin, Corrosive Spores, and Nature's Touch (with boon stacks). Oh and Flourish, Bloom and Essence Surge. They'll still be able to cast a lot during that phase. You just need to position yourself so you don't have to move that much and only when the debuff is up where you have to juke a bit.
    Last edited by Riane; 01-27-2014 at 10:00 AM.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    1. Downpour (and any other channeled ability) is not affected by pushback reduction talents. It suffers from pushback no matter what. It is still quite worth using if the raid is stacked and you use it with Tidal Surge and/or Flashover because it ticks faster than any other healing ability, so it can prevent deaths that other healing abilities cannot, even Healing Effusion.

    2. Always keep dangers of the deep up. If you do not you are bad. The only time to let it drop is if the raid has been constantly damaged for 15 seconds so you have not had a chance to use Geyser, which happens never.

    3. Always keep healing flood up. In a 20 man you can't control who gets it but at least use it twice. This maintains Invigoration (+10% healing to affected targets) as well as your crystal bonus spellpower.

    4. Healing Cataract is great for predictable raid damage that happens about every 2s, such as Zaviel's conducer phases or Kain bloodthieves. If you start the cast when the damage has already happened, you should not bother using it.

    Warden has many tools and some of those are personal preference for what to use during downtime. Some of them however affect your peak healing significantly so it is unwise to ignore them.

  10. #10
    Champion of Telara TheDoomgiver's Avatar
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    yes, as i said, im quite new myself, to wardening.

    i can confirm, TS+downpour = awesome. though, if your raid has recently taken a huge hit, TS+wave of renewal would be far better.

    i try to save downpour for when i know damage is about to start. wave is more of a reactive heal for me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoomgiver View Post
    yes, as i said, im quite new myself, to wardening.

    i can confirm, TS+downpour = awesome. though, if your raid has recently taken a huge hit, TS+wave of renewal would be far better.

    i try to save downpour for when i know damage is about to start. wave is more of a reactive heal for me.
    I try to use flashover for wave and save tidal for downpour or a really powerful effusion. wave heals for a lot so TS on wave is usually overkill unless your entire raid is practically redlined
    Do the herpty derp, please, keep LOSing your healers behind objects so you die.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    I think that's what you were doing wrong, it's really not worth it at all healing wise, it takes ages to get and maintain all the hots, espcially on single target. Soothing Stream and Healing spray are useless in my opinion.

    The other guy sounds like he was on the right track, but not 'quite' there.

    If you're a Warden, your whole soul is focused around big burst AOE healing, that should be your focus.

    IMHO only 8 healing abilities should be used as Warden -

    1. Healing Cataract
    2. Pool of Restoration
    3. Healing Effusions
    4. Wave of Renewal
    5. Geyser
    6. Tidal Surge + Monsoon
    7. Orbs of the Tide
    8. Healing Flood (Every 15s and only when the raid is fully topped)
    Orbs of the Stream is ultra-efficient at topping tanks off for the next three auto-swings. It's your largest direct ST heal and I recommend using it whenever the tank healers need some assistance. I find it in my rotation for most fights because of how good it is.

    Tank-healing with your other abilities depends on a few things. Most compositions with a Warden involve an already-dedicated tank healer, usually in addition to a Defiler, so spending GCDs on ST heals are not worth it in many scenarios. Well, Orbs of the Stream is quite powerful so I would recommend using it on most fights just to help out. Healing Spray, Overflowing Renewal and Healing Breath are quite situational. It takes extreme tank damage to warrant GCDs spent on these and/or a dedicated tank-healer who has died. I do spend a few GCDs here and there tank-healing as a Warden on Planebreaker Abominus (whichever tank has two council members auto-swinging them).

    Each Warden just needs to find a feel for how strong the tank healer is, and if you need to help carry them, it's absolutely worth losing some dps to keep the tank alive. With all the direct aoe/ST healing I do on Planebreaker Abominus I'm still able to dish out near 4k dps, so I'd expect at least 3k from a T1-geared Warden even in extreme healing scenarios.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple LaPengo's Avatar
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    Everytime you use Cataract, using Geyser was probably a better option.
    Except timing a big hit to insta Cata + Pool/EF.
    Last edited by LaPengo; 01-27-2014 at 06:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaPengo View Post
    Everytime you use Cataract, using Geyser was probably a better option.
    Except timing a big hit to insta Cata + Pool/EF.
    Cataract is great for constant-damage mechanics which aren't exactly light. This includes, but is not limited to: the foot stomp on Volan (don't know the name), Crushing Implosion on Abominus, and pre-casting for Cascade Reaction on Abominus (to top anyone off .5 seconds before the damage hits, then you can PoR to top them off again).

    Yeah, yeah, more Abominus examples. It's a great warden fight for utilizing all of your tools. Most people haven't seen it, but I promise you there are plenty of times where Cataract is ideal.

    In T1 content Zaviel's conducer phase used to tick a lot harder but has since been nerfed. When it was ticking for 7k and people in the raid were in the low 20k range at maximum, that was pretty significant incoming damage. Good luck maintaining your mana spamming Effusion, and good luck keeping the raid up with Geyser during that. Back then the best method was to maintain Dangers of the Deep and Monsoon, but otherwise you were spamming Healing Cataract.

    I can't really think of examples on T2 20-man bosses outside of Volan and Abominus, but it's certainly plausible to design content around that.

    One example in GA for Warden is Ultane. During the add phase if you're using up Healing Effusion a lot you're probably going to oom before the transition. You need to reserve your mana while submitting enough healing across not only your raid but your tanks. The best way to achieve that is being off-center but obviously not in the melee stack, and spamming Healing Cataract.

  15. #15
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    FYI nothing useful to contribute

    My GOD reading this makes me GLAD I don't raid. T1 wasn't that out geared with world content AND nerfted and it still sounds drop dead hard every second having to be accounted for or death shall arrive. This is with the conversation sounding like 1Puri, 2 wardens and a chloro or 2

    THAT 4-5 slots JUST for healing and STILL relying on split second decisions.

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