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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Cabalist : The Constructive Thread

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    Default Cabalist : The Constructive Thread

    First my suggestions. Please read all and keep it constructive!! Kervik we are waiting.... patiently?


    Obliterate – Passive. An enemy affected by darkness takes 20% more damage from the Cleric's Disintegration and Bound Fate per stack. The enemy takes 10% more damage from the Cleric's Well of Souls, Tyranny of Death, and Curse of Anarchy per stack. Stacks up to 3 times.

    Seeping Death – Passive. Enemies damaged by the Cleric’s Tyranny of Death take an additional 10% of the initial damage over 4 seconds. Stacks up to 4 times.

    Sign of Asias – Passive. Tyranny of Death , when triggered, reduces the Cleric’s global cooldown to 1 second and the cast time of Shadow’s Touch to 1 second. Lasts 10 seconds.

    Oblivion –The next 4 Shadow’s Touch or Dark Water casts hit up to 7 additional nearby enemies. Shadow’s Touch spreads Tyranny of Death from the target to all enemies hit. Lasts 30 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.

    Dominion (Replaces other Oblivion ability) – Resets the cooldown on all Sigil abilities. The next 3 Sigils of Ruin, Binding, or Secrecy used within 30 seconds have no cooldown. 2 minute cooldown.

    Other changes

    4 requests for Curses
    1. Allow all to stack
    2. Allow Curse of Solitude to debuff the targeted enemy like Curse of Discord.
    3. The last tick of Curse of Discord is not affected by the debuff it provides while the other 9 ticks are, therefore we have to clip the DoT in order to maintain the debuff. Make this a named debuff, “Dark Manifesto” for example, that lasts 20 seconds on the target.
    4. Increase the damage of Curse of Discord as it is only slightly better than Curse of Solitude on a single target ~1k by my tooltips.
    Request for Dark Water and Darkness stacking
    1. Allow “Primary Death Bolts” the ability to apply Darkness to an enemy already affected by it. These would include Shadow's Touch, Somatic Desecration, and Bolt of Depravity. Stealing a mage term here but it makes sense... at least I think it does. This could come deeper in the tree to prevent it from becoming too OP for Inq.
    Request for Well of Souls
    1. Turn this into a lava field type application. Applies a debuff to enemies in the affected area, dealing X death damage over the next 10 seconds. Lasts 5 seconds
    Final Requests
    1. Change Dark Harbor to increase damage done by 3%. This is a similar buff to what champ receives at 4 points and the 3% resist is fairly pointless.
    2. Shadow Breach – Grants stealth while stationary. Restores 2.5% health each second. Usable while in combat. Lasts 10 seconds.1 minute cooldown. Believe it was Grinnz that mentioned something like this. Shadow Breach is currently useless.
    Reasoning behind my suggestions.

    Tyranny of Death is excellent because it hits multiple targets and triggers other applications to blow up as well. Obliterate takes this away by restricting the actual mechanic that is unique to ToD. Changing Obliterate to a debuff allows that mechanic to remain relevant even in a single target rotation and, if only 1 more target is present ToD would be a gain over the current iteration of Obliterate and a gain on the focused target not just overall DPS.

    Seeping Death further improves the effectiveness of ToD even with only 1 enemy and since maintaining Sign of Asias would become priority, ToD would have a vital role at any point in an encounter.

    Reducing the GCD to 1 second based on ToD triggers will improve the rotation without drastically boosting the output since most of Cabalists abilities are DoT's or on have cooldowns. A more defined single target rotation would be present since more GCD's would be available for Shadow's Touch use and with it able to apply darkness, the 15 second block would be opened up even more.

    Oblivion brings Shadow's Touch closer to core Cabalist by giving the upfront AoE burst of a high damage ability like Shadow's Touch with the same opportunity of spreading Tyranny as Bound Fate has. Dark Water being included in this ability allows multiple applications of Darkness and added burst from 7 targets being affected by Obliterate. The use of this abilty, being 5 stacks and not timed means it would be useful in several different situations. For example, maintaining Darkness for 45 seconds on 7 targets.

    The change to one of our 61 point Oblivions would be to become Dominion. This would give us extended duration CC's every 2 minutes much like other callings (Nerf Sab) already have.

    All of this would contribute to an AoE soul less dependent on dieing mobs and a Single Target rotation that doesn't suffer from a drastic loss in AoE. Overall it is an extreme nerf to Obliterate if you are looking at it from a purely Single Target rotation but ultimately that is not what Cabalist is about and these changes would make it viable in more content by improving dps on a focused target and improving low target count AoE.
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2013 at 07:16 AM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master Godgrinder's Avatar
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    Obliterate should grant it's current st bonus as passive to your current target only and do nothing besides that, would be a fun mechanic and warrant cab to become quite nice at cleaving.
    It would also make you think who the flip to target/when to cc in pvp etc.

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    I expect it would take an even more drastic nerf than what i laid out here if that was the case. Being able to maintain a full AoE rotation with the current bonuses granted by Obliterate on a single target would be a bit much. Tyranny would turn people to dust
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2013 at 07:31 AM.

  4.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #4
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    Just wanted to drop in and let you all know I was looking at the thread here. No promises, but I'll keep an eye on things here and let you know if any changes are coming.

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    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    I expect it would take an even more drastic nerf than what i laid out here if that was the case. Being able to maintain a full AoE rotation with the current bonuses granted by Obliterate on a single target would be a bit much. Tyranny would turn people to dust
    Obliterate only seems to work half the time though. There has to a better way to separate ST & AOE abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    Obliterate only seems to work half the time though. There has to a better way to separate ST & AOE abilities.
    There is... the way i suggest it, it would just be a damage debuff. An enemy affected by darkness would take more damage from these abilities rather than these doing more damage to one target. They would still act purely as aoe abilities. No change to these abilities would need to occur like the current toggle forces.
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2013 at 10:42 AM.

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    Realistically the damage debuff provided by Curse of Discord and the buff provided to Shadow's Touch by Eccentric in the tree could be removed entirely and the Darkness applied Obliterate debuff could affect all abilities.
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2013 at 10:47 AM.

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    Plane Walker Nickalispicalis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    There is... the way i suggest it, it would just be a damage debuff. An enemy affected by darkness would take more damage from these abilities rather than these doing more damage to one target. They would still act purely as aoe abilities. No change to these abilities would need to occur like the current toggle forces.
    That's not a bad idea. Perhaps operating similar to Shaman's Furious Assault. The present problem with obliterate seems to occur mostly when switching it on and off often. You will see the icon, but it will still be operating in AOE mode.

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickalispicalis View Post
    That's not a bad idea. Perhaps operating similar to Shaman's Furious Assault. The present problem with obliterate seems to occur mostly when switching it on and off often. You will see the icon, but it will still be operating in AOE mode.
    The way it works currently is it will affect ToD and Disintegration as you cast them. So if you toggle it on, cast ToD, toggle it off, and cast Disintegration, the ToD will still explode only on the single target but the Disintegration will hit in AoE. And vice versa.

    The one caveat is Bound Fate will spread ToD (ST or AoE version) regardless of whether Obliterate is toggled.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 12-12-2013 at 11:40 AM.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    To the OP:

    I like these ideas. I would say there shouldn't be separate replacements for both 61 point abilities however, since they essentially are the same ability.

    I'm not sure about giving the ability to maintain Darkness on a group as a cooldown, when that is your idea for changing Obliterate (which I do like by the way). Cab's AoE burst really does not need help. I feel keeping Darkness/Obliterate as a single-target mechanic (which you can spend GCDs to apply to multiple targets if you wish) is a good idea. This would also allow for better control over Cab's ST by messing with the effect of Darkness, while not overbuffing its AoE.

    I do like the idea of a Carpet Bombing clone for Cab, only useful for sigils thus CC. The sigils are great but limited in their use and there's enough DR applied in PvP where it shouldn't be an issue. This would also possibly give Cab the use Sab has in chain-silencing certain trash groups. It would also give Cabalist essentially the ability to purge 5 stacks in AoE however which I am not sure would be too much in PvP, VK has the ability to do this but it's melee-based and very deep in a tank tree, and doing it with Archon requires standing still. I think it could work with the 2m cooldown though.

    The Seeping Death idea is certainly interesting, if you intend it to be triggered not only on the enemy ToD explodes on but the other enemies hit by ToD as well, which in AoE would instantly give the whole group 4 stacks. Against say two targets, you'd get a good stacking effect when using ToD+Disintegration just after another ToD goes off.

    Curse of Discord's damage would have to be increased high in the tree as the ability itself is available with a low investment.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 12-12-2013 at 02:37 PM.

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    If Cabalist gets looked at before stormcaller... just wow

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    To the OP:

    I like these ideas. I would say there shouldn't be separate replacements for both 61 point abilities however, since they essentially are the same ability.

    I'm not sure about giving the ability to maintain Darkness on a group as a cooldown, when that is your idea for changing Obliterate (which I do like by the way). Cab's AoE burst really does not need help. I feel keeping Darkness/Obliterate as a single-target mechanic (which you can spend GCDs to apply to multiple targets if you wish) is a good idea. This would also allow for better control over Cab's ST by messing with the effect of Darkness, while not overbuffing its AoE.
    This is understandable and anything really is an improvement over the current 61 pointers.

    I do like the idea of a Carpet Bombing clone for Cab, only useful for sigils thus CC. The sigils are great but limited in their use and there's enough DR applied in PvP where it shouldn't be an issue. This would also possibly give Cab the use Sab has in chain-silencing certain trash groups. It would also give Cabalist essentially the ability to purge 5 stacks in AoE however which I am not sure would be too much in PvP, VK has the ability to do this but it's melee-based and very deep in a tank tree, and doing it with Archon requires standing still. I think it could work with the 2m cooldown though.
    This would reside deep in the cab tree and shouldnt be a major problem with that length of a cooldown as you pointed out. Major improvement to cab though overall and i would like to see this one happen as much as the change to obliterate. Dumping the oblivion abilities for this only would be a 100% improvement imo.

    The Seeping Death idea is certainly interesting, if you intend it to be triggered not only on the enemy ToD explodes on but the other enemies hit by ToD as well, which in AoE would instantly give the whole group 4 stacks. Against say two targets, you'd get a good stacking effect when using ToD+Disintegration just after another ToD goes off.
    This is exactly as i intended

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xynvyctus View Post
    If Cabalist gets looked at before stormcaller... just wow
    This is not constructive

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    Prophet of Telara TehFrank's Avatar
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    Cab is fine. Horrible ST dmg. Amazing dmg in CQ =^.^=

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    So, here's a list that I sent off to Trion the other day for a "future cabalist" soul. I'd like some feedback on this, as it isn't exactly redoing the entire soul, but more so making this soul much more streamlined to how it functions.

    ----------------Wall-of-text-incoming----------------


    Synopsis: This soul is a mess. Some abilities are where they do not belong for the damage output that they do. Single target damage is to be desired for. Many suggestions listed below would really swap around such issues.


    Issue: Obliterate toggle ability.
    Problem: It should do more to enable and disable AOE and Single target based abilities on the cabalist soul.
    Solution: Move obliterate to Dark Harbor. Remove Dark Harbor from the tree and the soul - 3% base resist is near useless. Now with 'Obliterate' beng toggled off, it would enable the usage of Shadows Touch to do AE damage to five targets; it would also allow dark water to do damage up to five targets. When Obliterate is active, the damage bonuses are applied to these abilities and would become a single target based ability. Shadows Touch would become an instant cast while obliterate is not active. Dark Water would unfortunately have to be nerfed to one stack only while obliterate is disabled/toggled off. Dark Water's stacks would be allowed to stack to three while obliterate is active, and spec'd into - at 16 points into the tree.



    Issue: Seeping Death
    Problem: Can only be applied to one person at a time. The damage of the ability is very minimal for 41 points spent in the cabalist soul.
    Solution: Move Seeping death to the left of Maelstrom. Set Leviathan's Mark to a 2/2 buff, which would cause the damage done bonus to be 8 and 16% respectively. In the place of Seeping Death at 41 points, a new ability would be added.
    This new ability added would be called “Pouring Death”. Pouring Death would be a hybrid of Mass Betrayal and Void Wall. With Pouring Death, the “mass betrayal” portion of this ability would only be active when enemies run in or out of the circle. It would then drain energy/mana/power each time that they run in and out of the circle's perimeter. It would also deal damage to the enemies affected. This ability would have a 1 minute and 30 second cooldown. Enemies within the circle would have a "Void Wall" like dot applied.


    Issue: Maelstrom
    Problem: Only hits five enemies. Cabalist is an AOE soul, bound fate hits eight enemies at a time, and so does Tyranny of Death when spread.
    Solution: Increase the amount of mobs that get pulled in up to eight to match the amount of ToD and Bound Fate hits. Keep the current “pull” distance for both PvE and PvP.


    Issue: Unleash/Unbounded Oblivion
    Problem: This ability is technically a AOE DPS loss with it being a 2.5 seconds channel.
    Solution: Make it a fire-and-forget ability. No channel. Target an enemy, press button, and it fires off. Possibly making it off the global cooldown might make the one minute GCD worth it.

    Issue: Dark Manifesto
    Problem: Curse buff is not AOE centric from Dark Manifesto.
    Solution: Convert Dark Manifesto tree buff to apply to ALL curses, not just Curse of Discord.

    Issue: Howling Death
    Problem: Two minute cool down and a limited amount of CC immunity.
    Solution 1: Set to a one minute cool down with two stacks to allow immunity to the next two int's or silences.
    Solution 2: Copy the inquisitor's perseverance 'Determination' to Howling Death.

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