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Thread: Inquisitor DPS output

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    Rift Disciple Lightwish's Avatar
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    Default Inquisitor DPS output

    Ok, there are about a million threads asking what is the best Inquisitor build for raid dps, and from the investigating I have done it seems there is more than one answer? I am very curious to know if Ahovs cleric build 61inq/10 cabal/ 5 Def is actually the best raid damage spec?

    I can tell you this, I changed to that spec from 61inq/10 cabal/5 sent and it gave me about 500 more dps than before.

    So here are my questions for a heavily geared raiding DPS cleric that knows his stuff:

    1. Is Ahovs' 61 inq 10 cabal 5 def the best spec for single target raiding dps output?

    2. Planar essences and Crit Power- should a raiding cleric be rolling with 6 essences that are all crit power stats? (I have 4 currently), wondering if 6 is better?

    3. NO guides say anything about spiritual deficiency. I tend to use it everytime I can and work it as a priority into my rotation. What is your opinion on this? I know it gets wiped on some bosses sometimes. SD always get used?

    Thanks for answering these questions. Don't even bother answering unless you are at least halfway through GA content and a dps cleric- thanks.
    Last edited by Lightwish; 09-13-2013 at 12:12 AM.

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    Shadowlander Jessamyn's Avatar
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    1. I believe the benefit of this spec depends on how good you are at maintaining your DOTs on the target.

    3. If you are trying to maintain Spiritual Deficiency you are stepping on your Archon or Bard's toes. Please don't do this; they're there to support you! Mainly this buff would be put up by the Archon; their Crumbling Resistance lasts 5 minutes and is therefore preferable. -- This: http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...-stacking.html might be a useful link for you.
    Last edited by Jessamyn; 09-13-2013 at 12:32 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Seatin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwish View Post
    Ok, there are about a million threads asking what is the best Inquisitor build for raid dps, and from the investigating I have done it seems there is more than one answer? I am very curious to know if Ahovs cleric build 61inq/10 cabal/ 5 Def is actually the best raid damage spec?

    I can tell you this, I changed to that spec from 61inq/10 cabal/5 sent and it gave me about 500 more dps than before.

    So here are my questions for a heavily geared raiding DPS cleric that knows his stuff:

    1. Is Ahovs' 61 inq 10 cabal 5 def the best spec for single target raiding dps output?

    2. Planar essences and Crit Power- should a raiding cleric be rolling with 6 essences that are all crit power stats? (I have 4 currently), wondering if 6 is better?

    3. NO guides say anything about spiritual deficiency. I tend to use it everytime I can and work it as a priority into my rotation. What is your opinion on this? I know it gets wiped on some bosses sometimes. SD always get used?

    Thanks for answering these questions. Don't even bother answering unless you are at least halfway through GA content and a dps cleric- thanks.
    1. It depends on 2 things, if you can play it perfectly and also depends on the encounter, this explains a bit more about all the ways you can play it and why Ahov's spec isn't so good in certain situations : http://rift.junkiesnation.com/2013/0...ed-dps-cleric/

    2. I believe the stat weight for crit power to spellpower as an Inquistor is around 1.1 CP:1 SP, so take that into consideration when choosing your essences

    3. The archon, bard or beastmaster should always be using their version of this 7% magical damage taken buff which does not stack with SD.
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    Telaran
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    Personally I love and play Seatin's Inquisitor style.

    http://forums.riftgame.com/game-disc...deo-guide.html

    The reasons why can be found in the above thread. When you have to switch targets it is really hard to keep up dark water all the time.

    And with Dark Water having a travel time AND taking this into account for your rotation, it makes playing Inquisitor much much more difficult.

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    Rift Disciple Lightwish's Avatar
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    Thanks Seatin, this is exactly what I was looking for. NOW here is my tough question:

    1. Taking into consideration the 2.4 crystal changes which spec is better Ahovs or yours?

    2. Do we have a mathematician here to prove to us the calculations behind both specs to show us which spec will technically provide better dps under correct casting conditions?


    These questions are about COMPLETE and TOTAL inq DPS maximization of damage output. Yes I know playstyle will come into affect here also.

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    Rift Disciple LaPengo's Avatar
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    First and Foremost, 500 DPS can be lumped into pure RNG Variance.
    The difference is extremely small for it to matter much.

    As for the specs, most of it has to do with Gifts.

    Defiler will give you:
    5% DMG (Gift)
    10% WIS (Points)
    5% DMG (Link)

    Sent will give you:
    10% SP (Points)
    0% DMG (Gift)

    *note* You also get 10% Wisdom in Caba, which in turn helps Defiler Points

    In almost all situations, unless you have some real low Wisdom (Which is pretty much impossible in SL), 10% DMG AND 10% WIS will beat out 10% SP overall. This is especially true in a 20 man Raid settings.

    The difference is fairly minor, but Defiler beats out the Sent version if you're strictly talking Top DPS.

    Edit: I believe a ton of people believe you need some real good Dark Water usage to get TOP DPS to make use of it, you really don't. You can effectively keep most of your stacks and DPS up fairly well on all 20man Raid Bosses currently, including GA. This includes Twins, where you really can jack up your damage Double Dotting.
    Last edited by LaPengo; 09-13-2013 at 06:38 AM.

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    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    - If you're the type who writes COMPLETE and TOTAL DPS MAXIMIZATION in caps, you shouldn't be playing inquisitor at all. You should be shaman. And yes, stack crit power.

    - When I don't know/trust my support, I will cast Spiritual Deficiency immediately on the pull. If it gets overwritten, I forget about it - someone else is doing it. If it goes the full 60s, I maintain it.
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    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwish View Post
    Ok, there are about a million threads asking what is the best Inquisitor build for raid dps, and from the investigating I have done it seems there is more than one answer? I am very curious to know if Ahovs cleric build 61inq/10 cabal/ 5 Def is actually the best raid damage spec?

    I can tell you this, I changed to that spec from 61inq/10 cabal/5 sent and it gave me about 500 more dps than before.

    So here are my questions for a heavily geared raiding DPS cleric that knows his stuff:

    1. Is Ahovs' 61 inq 10 cabal 5 def the best spec for single target raiding dps output?
    From my experience Ahov's spec is not the top dps spec for inquisitor and it's much harder to play. But as others have said, in certain bossfights, DW does make a difference.
    Last edited by Fia; 09-13-2013 at 09:20 AM.
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    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaPengo View Post
    In almost all situations, unless you have some real low Wisdom (Which is pretty much impossible in SL), 10% DMG AND 10% WIS will beat out 10% SP overall. This is especially true in a 20 man Raid settings.
    In your opinion, which of the stats is better, 10%SP or 10%Wisdom?
    Last edited by Fia; 09-13-2013 at 09:30 AM.
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    Fia
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    Just asking because I'm using 61Inq/10Def/5Senti and this gives me a higher base dmg than 61Inq/10Def/5Cab, so I'm wondering what the benefit of 5 points in Cabbalist would be.
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    Rift Chaser Sikph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    In your opinion, which of the stats is better, 10%SP or 10%Wisdom?
    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    Just asking because I'm using 61Inq/10Def/5Senti and this gives me a higher base dmg than 61Inq/10Def/5Cab, so I'm wondering what the benefit of 5 points in Cabbalist would be.
    You've got it wrong, it's 10 cab and then choosing between 5 Defiler or 5 Sentinel. Cabalist is 10% Wisdom, then 10% dot damage. Defiler is 10% Wisdom, or Sent is 10% SP.

    The choice between is not as simple as 10% Wis and 10% SP, because you have to take into consideration the passive gifts and Defiler buff. Although typically SP is the best thing to go for, in this case with Defiler you get 10% Wisdom and an extra 10% damage for free. It's the better choice.

    See LaPengo's post earlier. (tweaked slightly below)

    Defiler will give you:
    10% WIS (Points)
    5% DMG (Gift)
    5% DMG (Blight Buff link)

    Sent will give you:
    10% SP (Points)
    5% HEAL (Gift)
    The reason your numbers probably look higher for 5 Sent is because your blight buff isn't running, and raid buffs scale things up nicer. Or you were using the wrong spec.



    And in response to the OP:

    1: Yes, regardless of whether you use Dark Water or not.

    2: There is a lot of debate on this still. Since I mostly play Shaman and I'm nearly CP capped with buffs, I went for 4 CP and 2 SP venerated essences. You could also run 5 CP with the air SP if you have both CP relic greater essences.

    3: Easy answer. Don't use it in raids or any content with a Bard/Archon who know's what they're doing. There are occasionally exceptions, such as if you have cannon duty on Ultane and the Archon is focused entirely on boss. It's ok to use the debuff on the cannons if you're the only one focusing them down.

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    Fia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikph View Post
    You've got it wrong, it's 10 cab and then choosing between 5 Defiler or 5 Sentinel. Cabalist is 10% Wisdom, then 10% dot damage. Defiler is 10% Wisdom, or Sent is 10% SP.

    The choice between is not as simple as 10% Wis and 10% SP, because you have to take into consideration the passive gifts and Defiler buff. Although typically SP is the best thing to go for, in this case with Defiler you get 10% Wisdom and an extra 10% damage for free. It's the better choice.

    [...]

    The reason your numbers probably look higher for 5 Sent is because your blight buff isn't running, and raid buffs scale things up nicer. Or you were using the wrong spec. :)
    Ahh, now I see, thank you for the answer. :)
    Last edited by Fia; 09-13-2013 at 12:02 PM.
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  13. #13
    Rift Disciple Lightwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fia View Post
    Just asking because I'm using 61Inq/10Def/5Senti and this gives me a higher base dmg than 61Inq/10Def/5Cab, so I'm wondering what the benefit of 5 points in Cabbalist would be.
    The two Inq specs are:

    61inq 10 cabal 5 def

    and

    61inq 10 cabal 5 sent

    I was in the sent version, changed to the def version and got about 500-700 more dps.

    There is also another spec that some play 61inq 15 def 0 jus

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    1. It depends on 2 things, if you can play it perfectly and also depends on the encounter, this explains a bit more about all the ways you can play it and why Ahov's spec isn't so good in certain situations : http://rift.junkiesnation.com/2013/0...ed-dps-cleric/

    2. I believe the stat weight for crit power to spellpower as an Inquistor is around 1.1 CP:1 SP, so take that into consideration when choosing your essences

    3. The archon, bard or beastmaster should always be using their version of this 7% magical damage taken buff which does not stack with SD.
    I'll address your concerns now. You should not consider 61/15 as top dps. It's very misleading.

    Seatin you crazy foo Y U no Ahov (Dark Water) guide?

    Ahov’s 61 Inqui spec relies on keeping up and maintaining 3 stacks of Dark Water and is only a very minor DPS increase (500-700). This is provided you never let the stacks drop and refresh Dark Water within the 1-3s of it falling off.

    As your DPS takes a bit of a hit initially, getting these stacks up makes it a sub-par build for any fights that last under a minute. If the stacks drop off or you are playing the build too safe and refreshing the stacks too often, you’re going to continually lose DPS.

    Now, realistically for most of the raiding fights in Storm Legion, you are not going to have the opportunity to perfect those stacks very often. Let’s just use Frozen Tempest and Endless Eclipse as an example of why you won’t be able to keep stacks up or if you do it will result in either a DPS loss or a danger to the raid because you’re too busy refreshing dots to pay attention to mechanics:

    Gelidra: Add phase and target switching. You will either let the stacks drop off or waste time and GCDs trying to keep them up on a 99% damage immune Gelidra.
    Zaviel: Conduit Phase. You will either let the stacks drop off or waste time and GCDs trying to keep them up on a completely damage immune Zaviel.
    Twins: May be worthwhile provided your DPS is perfectly balanced. If, however, one is ahead (which is often the case), you’re either going to risk pushing one too far or lose your stacks target switching.
    Crucia: Tons of short, bursty add phases. Need I say more?

    Prog: Bursty target switching galore.
    Kain: Short, bursty add phases. May be better for DPS in the last phase.
    Matriarch: If you can manage to keep the stacks up on Matriarch while you are also burning the child, Ahov’s spec may be better!
    Goloch: Since it’s a straight up nuke, this is one of the fights that 10 Cab/5 Defiler– if played correctly– will beat 15 Defiler.
    Regulos: Target switching and platform phases galore.

    So, unless you have next-level Ahov skills, the spec this guide is suggesting will usually trump 10 Cab/5 Defiler.
    Gelidra: if normal mode you should probably be shaman anyways. If hard mode, the DW spec allows you to maintain dps on Amrian as your focus target (which he should be anyways to see his mechanics).

    Zaviel: Correct; you don't benefit from Dark Water during the conducer phase. However, the 10 cab/5 defiler spec is inherently better here because the conducer phase is consistent raid damage. You will pull higher dps WITHOUT dark water here because Peak of Form will not be maintained in your spec.

    Twins: I pulled 28.5k last week and can potentially do 30k+ without derpy bubbles dropped in melee. DW+ scourge + vex multi-dotting + soul drain = win. There is also a fairly-consistent amount of raid damage, particularly if you're only using a couple of chloros (who cannot get all the cleanses).

    Crucia: You should probably run Shaman.

    Progenitor: in normal mode you don't have to target switch much, and even when you do, you just check to make sure your DW will remain on the primary target. In hard mode there is increased raid damage which really kills your uptime on peak of form. And yes, even in hard mode you can maintain DW on your primary target between target swaps. For final phase you can also do DW on both targets simultaneously.

    Kain: Regardless of normal or hard mode, you should be running Shaman.

    Matriarch: you should run Shaman unless you have too many melee getting hit by black rot (which gives her a lot of energy to power Consume Essence.) When the childe is up, she pulses quite a lot of raid damage, and her black rot occurs fairly often as well. Peak of form will have minimal uptime here. Finally, you never need to target-switch, so it's very simple to maintain 3x Darkness stacks.

    Goloch: Easiest fight for Dark Water.

    Regulos: Burning down Eyes does not mean losing your Darkness stacks on Regulos. You can focus-target Regulos and manage your stacks. The add phase and spines will diminish the usefulness of Dark water (in fact, negating it). This makes Dark Water less than ideal for this fight, but not by a significant margin as you may suggest. This would be the one fight where another Inquisitor spec is justifiable.
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-13-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seatin View Post
    2. I believe the stat weight for crit power to spellpower as an Inquistor is around 1.1 CP:1 SP
    That stat weight for CP is way too high. For shaman it is usually somewhere between .9 and 1.1 depending on who you ask. For inquisitor its probably around 0.7. CP stat weights will be nearly irrelevant in 2.4. The CP cap with a charred proc, banners, and feast is 1194, and I already know a few clerics (including myself) who are within 20-30 CP of that number.

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