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Thread: Just/Shaman can't hold agro in dungeons

  1. #1
    Telaran Mentla's Avatar
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    Default Just/Shaman can't hold agro in dungeons

    Hi all,

    Have levelled warr tank up with no issues and played tanks in many MMOs, so have an idea what I am doing, but I can't keep agro on my Cleric tank. At all. Every single pull, whether I charge in, pull with a spell or run in. Someone said I'm not doing enough AE but I've tried just spamming it, but I lose agro on every single pull. I assumed they were just not very good tanks but I've grouped with a few when I'm healing and they have no problems. Any suggestions?

    Is it just damage done that builds ago? Appart from the taunts of course?

    Appreciate any advice. Love tanking, not loving Cleric tanking

    Thanks.
    Love and a hug,

    Meds

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    I tanked on my cleric through every dungeon from 50-60 and never had an issue with threat. For AOE threat, Censure > Doctine of Loyalty and everything should snap onto you. If you have stuff still at range that you can't pull in with Rebuke, just keep hitting DoL every other attack or so. Also, make sure you have Righteous Mandate on someone for extra heal threat.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander blackdeath's Avatar
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    What build are you using? I'm wondering if you are full Justi with the extra points in Shaman, or some kind of hybrid.
    Greybriar:
    Voraj - 4x Mage
    Voraje - 6x Cleric
    Teo - 6x Rogue

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    did you use 'mien of leadership'?

  5. #5
    Telaran Mentla's Avatar
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    Am using the recommended build of Justi/Shaman/Inqu.

    neverwhere2012, don't have Censure yet, but I didn't realise I should be using Doctrine of Loyalty, not sure I've ever even used it. I've mostly been spamming Even Justice, the AE attack. Is that not right?
    Love and a hug,

    Meds

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentla View Post
    Am using the recommended build of Justi/Shaman/Inqu.

    neverwhere2012, don't have Censure yet, but I didn't realise I should be using Doctrine of Loyalty, not sure I've ever even used it. I've mostly been spamming Even Justice, the AE attack. Is that not right?
    Even Justice is what you'd spam most of the time. Cleric threat is mainly based on over healing, though, so using Doctrine of Loyalty early on and throughout the fight is going to generate a ton of threat on any mob attacking you or your group. Righteous Mandate is also going to help by tossing bigger Salvation heals onto someone who has full health most of the time.

  7. #7
    Telaran Mentla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverwhere2012 View Post
    Even Justice is what you'd spam most of the time. Cleric threat is mainly based on over healing, though, so using Doctrine of Loyalty early on and throughout the fight is going to generate a ton of threat on any mob attacking you or your group. Righteous Mandate is also going to help by tossing bigger Salvation heals onto someone who has full health most of the time.
    Is Reparation worth picking up then?
    Love and a hug,

    Meds

  8. #8
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mentla View Post
    Is Reparation worth picking up then?
    If you don't have points in reparation, that's probably why you're losing aggro so easily.

  9. #9
    Telaran Mentla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverwhere2012 View Post
    If you don't have points in reparation, that's probably why you're losing aggro so easily.
    Yeah, makes sense now I know part of our agro is from healing. Will have a go tonight, thanks guys
    Love and a hug,

    Meds

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Sikph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverwhere2012 View Post
    If you don't have points in reparation, that's probably why you're losing aggro so easily.
    This, by god.

    Cleric agro is mostly in the overhealing.

    Using abilities that generate the most heals will provide the highest threat, as long as your group has people at 100% HP. Generally, stick to using the melee aoe attacks unless you're out of range since Salvation usually heals for slightly more than Doctrine of Loyalty. And if the group you're in isn't at full health, the damage agro should be enough to compensate for lack of overhealing.

    In single target fights, use your heaviest hitting, biggest healing attack first, and then use Provoke if someone still manages to take agro off you. Good choices are Doctrine of Authority (when you get it) Hammer of Duty or Bolt of Radiance. Make sure to always use Justicar attacks, because they generate an increased amount of Salvation heals. Using abilities from Shaman or Inquisitor may give you a tiny dps boost, but you're losing out on potential threat and heals.

    You can even use Reprieve, our big self heal cooldown for some very decent threat, but that's a bit of a waste of a valuable ability.
    Last edited by Sikph; 09-02-2013 at 09:48 AM.

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  11. #11
    Plane Touched
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    Justa gentle correction - you don't need people to have 100% health as damage and healing already generate threat as normal - mien of honour just makes sure that IF people have 100% health you still generate as much threat.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    If you can hit the enemies, hit as many as possible. The damage threat plus threat from salvation is the best bang for your buck. This means EJ, Censure, or the Hammer with enough convictions for AoE depending on number and position of mobs, or various single-target abilities for ST. Doctrine of Authority especially with Total Assurance is good threat for either situation. Doctrine of Loyalty is good if you can't hit all the enemies you want to build threat on.

    Also what the above post said. Overhealing and regular healing threat is the same.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 09-03-2013 at 07:46 PM.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser
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    OP pointed out his problem in the question. You should not be "charging in" to combat. Shaman charge is almost never the right choice for pulling.

    This is all you need to know to hold agro:

    Never ever pull a group of enemies with a single target attack. They all come running but you only have threat on the one you actually hit. You will lose the rest right away.

    Always always pull groups of enemies with a multi target attack. This means hammer of faith. If you don't have any convictions to use it, hit total assurance which gives you 7 convictions and is available every minute.

    If you have no choice, pull with rebuke and then hit them all with melee aoe attacks. EJ if 5 enemies/censure if more than 5.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Actually, don't pull with rebuke either.
    Sometimes enemies get stuck on a tiny bump on the ground, dividing the group, and it wastes a great cooldown for when more than one mob make a beeline for the healer.
    Instead i suggest just running at the enemies and hitting an AE attack (EJ or Censure, depending on number and spread of Enemies. Make sure you hit everyone.) to get some snap aggro.

    Ride the Lightning is useful when you already have aggro and want to get to the target quickly (after being knocked back or running out for mechanics, for example). Never use it to initialize combat as it causes close to no threat.

    Hammer of Faith still is the easiest way to initialize combat with more than one enemy.
    Hit the one in the center, because the hammer looks for other mobs and tags them for a hit on the first impact, instead of seeking another mob after every jump. (This confused me at first, I used to target the mobs standing on either side and wonder why the Hammer didn't go all the way across)

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