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Thread: Possible Rework for Sentinel?

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Possible Rework for Sentinel?

    Hey everyone,

    now that Purifier is reworked I think it would be nice to see some changes to Sentinel.

    What I would love to see would be Sentinel using convictions as well and generally some more synergy with Justicar, so that a deep Sentinel could play like the old Senticar without allowing the return the more problematic -icars.

    -Sentinel could gain convictions from casting invocations as has been suggested by someone in an earlier thread already.

    -There should be a talent in the soul tree allowing them to get more convictions, up to 7 from 4.

    -Divine Call should hit 10 players etc to replace doctrine of loyalitys function and consume a conviction instead of having a cool down

    - Sentinel should have a version of righteous mandate that would function much like synthesis for chloromancers

    - Casting invocations should trigger a salvation effect on several players, which could replace marked by the light.

    - Sentinel should provide a cost reduce and a wild growth like effect to the raid

    - To support synergy with justicar all conviction based healing and the justicars salvation should also be buffed by the higher up talents in the sentinel tree

    - There should be a gcd reduce for sentinel around 51 or 54

    - crucial invocation should become the equivalent of hammer of duty in healing. burns up all convictions to provide a fast life-saving per conviction heal.

    -additional to the instant group cleanse there should be a cast time group cleanse with no cd

    - the basic subtle invocation should be channeled and gain 2-3 convictions over its whole duration

    This would allow a playstyle much like the old sentincar with some improved features, while preventing the issues of some other -icar specs.

    It could also reweight it's priorities between tank and group healing quickly and would allow raids to decide more flexibly between bringing a chloro or a sentinel. Hence they could react much better to the composition of their pool.

    It's a big rework but I think it would be worth it.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    Lol, you're asking too much.

    Because with all these changes, warden would be a bit useless and sentinel the "best" healing spec.

    Actually, you're asking to have a copy of chloromancer in sentinel but with conviction mechanic. That's a thing not possible for cleric because we got 3 healing souls and sentinel would be "uber".
    Some ideas are great and could be done but not all.
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  3. #3
    Soulwalker
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    Well, there's a lot of proposals that would go well together

    There are 3 core points that would make sentinel with a senticar playstyle desirable:

    - Utility of wild growth and cost reduce
    - convictions from heals
    - DoL like divine call for group heals.

    Everything else is maybe nice to have, but the above 3 would define a reasonable cleric alternative, that would give raids more flexibility.

    Would Warden need to be reworked? Yep, but that shouldn't really stop one from making changes in sentinel.

    I think Warden would fare well if it was made to be more like a tactician based on Air and Water and with synergy with shaman in mind.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Sentinel suffers from the same problem as every other Cleric healing soul: it is niche, it is not well rounded, it is not generally useful, and it doesn't bring anything truly awesome to the raid. Compared to a Chloro, it's bad, as are all Cleric healing specs.

    1. It's slow. 1.5s GCD is far too long given how encounters are tuned around abilities that tick for damage on individuals and/or tanks at rates from 0.5-1s. Reactionary healing is not good when damage is applied faster than you can possibly respond to it.

    2. Tank damage is extremely spiky especially around damage that needs cooldowns to be healed through. Sentinel healing is backloaded. This means you're super reliant on cooldowns, which is stressful.

    3. It doesn't have utility even comparable to Warden and a notable lack of useful cooldowns. Almost all of its cooldowns serve to improve its horrible state. This is a "mechanic" consistent with other Cleric souls under Zinbik's design, where baseline performance is awful and only through 61 point spec or the use of cooldowns are Clerics comparable in any way to other classes at anything. Having a billion cooldowns to make the Sentinel do better than its abysmally slow backloaded healing is not interesting. Most of those CDs should be removed and replaced with utilities that warrant bringing a Sentinel, ever.

    4. It's immobile. Because everything is casted. Most encounters these days are being made to require super mobility in healers. Granted Chloros can't deal with this, either, they can deal with much more movement than a Sentinel can, as they have front-loaded channels that let them do something while stutter stepping.
    Last edited by Multimax; 08-26-2013 at 03:21 AM.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    The niche I'd have to agree with.

    I think Puri now has some good potential. If we could just get those signs active simultaneously.

    Anyhow, I would like to see a healing soul for both raid and tank damage with good utility again. That's what the proposal is aiming for, as senticar provided the healing side and the utility we can get right this time as well. We should have a soul that's worth bringing as much as chloro on any fight. Things like Puri, Defiler or the present incarnation of warden should be additional roles to bring if required. But we should be just as capable to fill a "default healing and utility" slot.

    It would make things more fun for the players and worthwhile for the raid.

  6. #6
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Multimax View Post
    1. It's slow. 1.5s GCD is far too long given how encounters are tuned around abilities that tick for damage on individuals and/or tanks at rates from 0.5-1s. Reactionary healing is not good when damage is applied faster than you can possibly respond to it.
    1.5s gcd like every other healer is too slow(if you not count tactican)? Also Sentinel has Healing Breath which trigger no gcd with a proc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Multimax View Post
    2. Tank damage is extremely spiky especially around damage that needs cooldowns to be healed through. Sentinel healing is backloaded. This means you're super reliant on cooldowns, which is stressful.
    What a healing soul that have to plan his cooldowns for tank damage- sounds like it needs skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Multimax View Post
    3. It doesn't have utility even comparable to Warden and a notable lack of useful cooldowns. Almost all of its cooldowns serve to improve its horrible state. This is a "mechanic" consistent with other Cleric souls under Zinbik's design, where baseline performance is awful and only through 61 point spec or the use of cooldowns are Clerics comparable in any way to other classes at anything. Having a billion cooldowns to make the Sentinel do better than its abysmally slow backloaded healing is not interesting. Most of those CDs should be removed and replaced with utilities that warrant bringing a Sentinel, ever.
    The cooldowns are not bad, but like said managing them is what a real sentinel have to do in the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Multimax View Post
    4. It's immobile. Because everything is casted. Most encounters these days are being made to require super mobility in healers. Granted Chloros can't deal with this, either, they can deal with much more movement than a Sentinel can, as they have front-loaded channels that let them do something while stutter stepping.
    You can pick up Healing Flare from Puri with you need an instant spam heal for movement or just use Touch the Light for movement.
    For group heal just put 6/8/12 points in Warden every groupheal+ Faith Rewarded is a beast.
    For Utility maybe they can bring the 5% crit debuff for Sentinel and implement it in Wrathful Exuberance or one of his other healing mechanics.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Rubinelol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    For Utility maybe they can bring the 5% crit debuff for Sentinel and implement it in Wrathful Exuberance or one of his other healing mechanics.
    good idea!

    a bit stronger Aoe-Heal with a 61Senti/15Warden would be nice to use Senti more often. The Probleme is: for the most Encounters a Chloro is better because they can switch to Aoe-Heal easily. I do not want to replace a Chloro but I want to play Senti more often (not only in Dungeons and PvP )

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
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    I would love to see sentinel turned into a soul with extremely mobile heals and the ability to switch between area of effect and single target damage.

    Heal out put might go down some, but then we would have.

    Purifier: Tank healer

    Warden: AE Healer.

    Sentinal: Good for movement fights and fights where we have to switch between AE and Single target heals.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Utility wise I think the easiest way would be to use wild growth and the cost reduce. Why overcomplicate things by giving sentinel something different utility that might feel weaker or overpowered? If this is the "generic raid healer utility" then so be it and it should be in sentinel.

    This would put the basic raid healers (chloro, sentinel) on a comparable basis. Then the heals could be adjusted accordingly.

    On the raid damage side I would prefer sentinel to cope better with bursty raid damage and chloro better with sustained raid damage:
    I would prefer DoL like heals in sentinel and hence a new senticar to the present warden since warden feels way to restricted in anything but it's little niche.

    Warden isn't bad, but it's so much less versatile than the former senticar and the issues it has with dps vs raid healing are not going to be fixed by some band aid changes to it's present form. That's why I hope to see warden redefined as well. Tactician would be an inspiration.

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    Although warden would still have a place if we were to use convictions in sentinel as they would be exhausted quickly. So that should work out even if warden stayed in its present form.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer fufi's Avatar
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    INB4 old senticar is one of the new warrior/rogue soul for 3.0 instead.
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  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    I didn't think I'd miss senticar when SL came out but at this point I think it would greatly improve the game if it were reinstated through sentinel. After all, more flexibility in raid healing and raid composition can hardly be a bad thing.

  13. #13
    Champion
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    The biggest change for Sentinel I think, needs to come from the fights in Rift, and not with the soul itself. There isn't a fight out there, that has the need for Sentinel healing throughput. Sentinel was used sparingly during progression, when the tanks were rocking 50k HP, but that hasn't been the case since March. Lets see some fights where the tanks are continually getting hit for 20k, 25k, and I think we'll see a revival in Sentinel.
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  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    I'd love to agree but I feel that position has been taken by purifier. We'll see I guess.

    While the change coming from the fights in Rift might help, I would prefer if they went the other route and adapt sentinel to a different environment/purpose.

    Or put simply: If purifier fills it's pre SL tank healing spot... just let sentinel fill it's allrounder healing spot again as known from senticar. But in a way that is more beneficial to the raid (stronger Ae than now, same utility as chloro) than is presently the case. I think we would benefit from it.

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    1. Move Healer's Covenant to 61 pt ability and remove the debuff that it applies.

    rework complete.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-26-2013 at 10:24 AM.

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