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Thread: Possible Rework for Sentinel?

  1. #16
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    1.5s gcd like every other healer is too slow(if you not count tactican)? Also Sentinel has Healing Breath which trigger no gcd with a proc.
    That's completely unreliable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    What a healing soul that have to plan his cooldowns for tank damage- sounds like it needs skill.
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    The cooldowns are not bad, but like said managing them is what a real sentinel have to do in the moment.
    Not really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    You can pick up Healing Flare from Puri with you need an instant spam heal for movement or just use Touch the Light for movement.
    For group heal just put 6/8/12 points in Warden every groupheal+ Faith Rewarded is a beast.
    For Utility maybe they can bring the 5% crit debuff for Sentinel and implement it in Wrathful Exuberance or one of his other healing mechanics.
    None of those are good, and damage which consistently spikes a raid to below 50% is trivially healed by a Warden, but won't be healed by Faith Rewarded.

  2. #17
    Shadowlander Razgrim's Avatar
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    I REALLY wish the devs didn't have to assign specs "niches" to make them feel unique. Not saying make every 61 soul equal at everything, but maybe give sent a hot, purifier an aoe. Make them a little more than incapable at doing things that don't fit their niche. I think every soul should have a specialty, but not be so specialized that they're completely incapable at doing things outside of it. Give them each a noticeable edge, you know? I'd love to ask for more spell creativity and soul identity, but I doubt that'll happen. Warden spells are very cool, unique and interesting, can the other 2 souls get some neat new ideas?

  3. #18
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razgrim View Post
    I REALLY wish the devs didn't have to assign specs "niches" to make them feel unique. Not saying make every 61 soul equal at everything, but maybe give sent a hot, purifier an aoe. Make them a little more than incapable at doing things that don't fit their niche. I think every soul should have a specialty, but not be so specialized that they're completely incapable at doing things outside of it. Give them each a noticeable edge, you know? I'd love to ask for more spell creativity and soul identity, but I doubt that'll happen. Warden spells are very cool, unique and interesting, can the other 2 souls get some neat new ideas?
    that would remove the incentive to hybridize anything. Currently the point of hybridizing is to get such cross-utility at the expense of lower pure functionality. This of course is rarely needed in raids due to the nature of the encounters, but it can be very useful in 5-man dungeons (WTB master modes), PvP or soloing.

  4. #19
    Shadowlander Razgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    that would remove the incentive to hybridize anything. Currently the point of hybridizing is to get such cross-utility at the expense of lower pure functionality. This of course is rarely needed in raids due to the nature of the encounters, but it can be very useful in 5-man dungeons (WTB master modes), PvP or soloing.
    I understand what you're saying, but many people play this game just to raid, and as you said hybrids sure as hell don't work in raids. I love the idea of hybrid specs, but that's not how the game's currently balanced. So, we mise well continue perfecting the current "all pure" model.

  5. #20
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razgrim View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but many people play this game just to raid, and as you said hybrids sure as hell don't work in raids. I love the idea of hybrid specs, but that's not how the game's currently balanced. So, we mise well continue perfecting the current "all pure" model.
    Some hybrids can be made to work in raids but it has to be a hybrid that cannot be replaced by higher performing pure specs. Such as Pyrochon because of the current failure of high-point Archon, or Defiler because it is efficient at the combination of mitigation/healing and DPS. To do this with existing souls in a way that is useful in raids just diminishes the use of pure builds as we see with Archon.

  6. #21
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    1. Move Healer's Covenant to 61 pt ability and remove the debuff that it applies.

    rework complete.
    That would be interesting. Better if they cut the CD in half :B
    Last edited by Eughe; 08-26-2013 at 12:13 PM.

  7. #22
    Shadowlander Razgrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Some hybrids can be made to work in raids but it has to be a hybrid that cannot be replaced by higher performing pure specs. Such as Pyrochon because of the current failure of high-point Archon, or Defiler because it is efficient at the combination of mitigation/healing and DPS. To do this with existing souls in a way that is useful in raids just diminishes the use of pure builds as we see with Archon.
    As stated I'm very aware that role-hybrids don't work because they don't meter well. I don't see what your problem is with allowing some minor soul-hybridization (like 42 sent 34 warden, not that it's an example of a good build) though in straight heal specs. Right now you've got to be 61 something to heal. Although it would be nice if distributing some of those to other heal souls would work, it doesn't. Again, for healing, we mise well continue perfecting the current "all pure" healing model.

  8. #23
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razgrim View Post
    As stated I'm very aware that role-hybrids don't work because they don't meter well. I don't see what your problem is with allowing some minor soul-hybridization (like 42 sent 34 warden, not that it's an example of a good build) though in straight heal specs. Right now you've got to be 61 something to heal. Although it would be nice if distributing some of those to other heal souls would work, it doesn't. Again, for healing, we mise well continue perfecting the current "all pure" healing model.
    I'm not against it. I'm just trying to state why it won't work without overshadowing the pure heal roles. If there is a hybrid between any of sent/warden/puri that is effective then you remove the need for the pure healing builds to be present in some fashion. Right now they have enough trouble keeping the pure healing builds relevant.

    Hybrid DPS builds on the other hand are much simpler to introduce and they have already started working on those to some extent.

  9. #24
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    The only way hybriding would work is if they got rid of 1-2 of our healing souls.
    Last edited by Eughe; 08-26-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  10. #25
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    another option imo would be to give sentinel a really strong passive damage output, something similar to eruption but on steroids.

    Then you would have:
    chloro: good tank/raid heals, able to switch from tank to raid healing in 1 gcd, good damage
    purifier: best tank healing (maybe boost it a bit more i don't know), good tank cds, spot healing
    warden: best burst aoe healing, mobile healing, some damage
    sentinel:good tank healing, some aoe healing, best damage

    it will be similar to how warrior tanks outdps by far justicars p.e.

    then, when a raid is equipped to easily handle bosses or when the healing is not that hard but it has a hard dps check, the optimal choice will be sent for his dps.
    Last edited by shroudb; 08-26-2013 at 12:25 PM.

  11. #26
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Sentinel already has strong passive damage through Wrathful Exuberence. Increasing it would just lead to issues of overpowered hybrids as there were in beta.

  12. #27
    Rift Master Krumelur's Avatar
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    imo, the healing souls are already by far the most hybrid friendly souls we have. It's the Cleric's strength.

  13. #28
    Soulwalker
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    Thanks for all the replys.

    So to summarize, there seems to be only one serious concern:

    - That sentinel might make warden redundant.

    Well, it requires only a small change to the core proposal in the 3rd post to avoid that. The new proposal for a rework is:

    - No convictions in sentinel, but still the ability cost reduce buff and wild growth
    - Divine call gets the functionality and also the cost of healing effusion, to give sentinel a good but costly response to short aoe burst

    Then all that would have to change in warden are the things we would want to change in warden anyhow:

    - higher dps
    -a healing-from-dps effect that is of the same strength as LGV (after all the buff's in it's tree) for a chloro. I propose Bosun's Blessing to trigger heals from dps abilities on up to 10 raid members.
    -a good cd to buff raid dps. preferably the stats of wild growth again. it has become sort of the standard.

    With those changes we get:

    -Purifier can shine as tank heal
    -Warden remains the best burst group healer but also gains sustained healing while dps-ing
    -Sentinel is a flexible allrounder, that can ST heal but help with Aoe and brings a lot of great cool downs to the table.

    Best,
    Ais

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