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Thread: Clerics as support in pre-60 instances

  1. #1
    Telaran Archae's Avatar
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    Default Clerics as support in pre-60 instances

    I've been levelling up my first cleric, so I'm newer to the class but not to Rift in general.

    I'm aware that cleric is not a traditional support role at 60, but levelling up it's not uncommon to see clerics queue support for the dungeon finder. I am finding that the definition of "support" is broadly interpreted depending on the player:

    When I get selected as support, I play a heavy druid/light justicar build with the healing fairy out and using justicar attacks for salvation spam. This provides a constant stream of AoE healing while also contributing significantly to the group's dps. Sure, I'm not bringing the group buffs of a bard or an archon, but I'm able to dps and fill the cracks on group healing. This is the closest I can imagine a cleric coming to filling the role of support.

    Other interpretations I've seen generally consist of a full-on healing spec or full-on dps. I realize that the full-on dps is just a lazy keyboard masher that wanted a faster queue and has no interest in playing support, but the full-on healer thing is just inexplicable. Many times when I am the group's healer and another cleric is support, they run full warden and treat support as a 'second healer', spamming overflowing renewal on the tank the entire instance. I'm perplexed by this and I think it's a total waste of a slot as the overhealing is phenomenal and the group loses a lot of dps potential.

    Am I right to call them out on this and ask them to change, or is this the accepted norm?
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  2. #2
    Rift Chaser Sikph's Avatar
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    Like you said, a lot of people with a lot of opinions.

    Typically, the learned community accepts that the Support role in a dungeon is best suited to another full DPS unless the Healer is not very good. Then you'd play a DPS with offheals, and if that still isn't enough, then full healer. The support role is very rarely filled with a genuine Support class because the buffs don't improve group DPS as much as a pure DPS player would do.

    So bottom line, you're in the right. Make a judgment call based on the healers performance. The goal is to get the dungeon cleared as quickly as possible with as few wipes as possible.

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    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Clerics that queue as support (and that are expected to be providing support) should be playing one of the following classes (in my opinion). By order of preference;

    1. Druid
    2. Defiler (use over Druid for trash AoE)
    3. New Purifier
    4. Sent or Warden depending on what's needed.

    I'm not a fan of icar specs anymore... but again, this is purely my opinion.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Why is new puri build support? It's not very high damaging relative to warden afai can tell, AMD the heals seem fine for primary tank heals.

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    Ascendant Hotter's Avatar
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    I'd take the second full on healer as a nice reprieve and swap specs to a druid flavor. Rolling dps is always a nice break from playing whack a mole with green bars.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izawwlgood View Post
    Why is new puri build support? It's not very high damaging relative to warden afai can tell, AMD the heals seem fine for primary tank heals.
    3 Fire Walls + Eruption > Any DPS Warden can do

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptini View Post
    3 Fire Walls + Eruption > Any DPS Warden can do
    Oh, maybe if you get lucky with a nice add pile. But single target wise, Warden has Dehydrate, Call of the Depths, and Geyser spam, the latter of which not only heals, but also procs Oversaturation for yet more damage. I don't disagree that Warden damage has zilch for AoE damage, but it's ST is hella superior to Puri.

  8. #8
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izawwlgood View Post
    Oh, maybe if you get lucky with a nice add pile. But single target wise, Warden has Dehydrate, Call of the Depths, and Geyser spam, the latter of which not only heals, but also procs Oversaturation for yet more damage. I don't disagree that Warden damage has zilch for AoE damage, but it's ST is hella superior to Puri.
    Hmmm... I might have to parse it. Them Fire Walls can really bring out the DPS, even on ST, because each wall adds 1k DPS at least. Warden does have the advantage of healing while spamming Geyser, though.

  9. #9
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kriptini View Post
    Hmmm... I might have to parse it. Them Fire Walls can really bring out the DPS, even on ST, because each wall adds 1k DPS at least. Warden does have the advantage of healing while spamming Geyser, though.
    I'd be curious to hear how it stacks out. I'm not sure Geyser can proc Oversaturation, but I know my ST damage with Warden>Puri.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Izawwlgood View Post
    I'd be curious to hear how it stacks out. I'm not sure Geyser can proc Oversaturation, but I know my ST damage with Warden>Puri.
    Keeping up Healing Flood every 20s or so will proc oversaturation every ICD and I believe Geyser does as well. But it's still not even worth the GCD to cast it. I took it off my bar about a month ago.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-26-2013 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Keeping up Healing Flood every 20s or so will proc oversaturation every ICD and I believe Geyser does as well. But it's still not even worth the GCD to cast it. I took it off my bar about a month ago.
    Geyser will proc Oversaturation, according to healing dummy testing. I use Healing Flood, btw, just to keep stacks of a HoT moving along.

    I'm not really digging the Warden as much lately for dungeons, but it is nice to be able to keep a group that doesn't know fights alive.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikph View Post
    The support role is very rarely filled with a genuine Support class because the buffs don't improve group DPS as much as a pure DPS player would do.
    Pyrochon/archonbringer would like to have a word with you Being the odd one out aside, mages are the only class that can fill a true "support" role in dungeons because they can do viable (non subpar) dps for a dubgeon and add raid (group?) buffs/dps.
    Last edited by Vetheax; 08-27-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser Sikph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetheax View Post
    Pyrochon/archonbringer would like to have a word with you Being the odd one out aside, mages are the only class that can fill a true "support" role in dungeons because they can do viable (non subpar) dps for a dubgeon and add raid (group?) buffs/dps.
    Yes, this is true. But how often do you pug and see these actually take up the support slot?

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  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikph View Post
    Yes, this is true. But how often do you pug and see these actually take up the support slot?
    Touche. I'm used to seeing my guild archon in my dungeons, who plays nothing but pyrochon. Personally I think more mages should consider learning it, it's not a hard spec at all.

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