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Thread: Inquisitor is incredibly, terribly, horribly broken.

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    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Default Inquisitor is incredibly, terribly, horribly broken.

    Oh yes, I know there will be plenty of "qq moar" replies to this post and I look forward to ignoring them all. The truth is that two-and-a-half years of Trion's ineptitude at PvP balancing has finally led to the abomination known as 61-Inquisitor. Never mind the NB/RS of days yore or even the newly rebuffed 'Sin - Rift has a new heavyweight champion of PvP facerolling!

    61-Inquisitor has:
    1. single-target burst damage comparable to any Pyro,
    2. free passive immunity to the first CC ability cast against it every 2 min.,
    3. the best purge ability in the game,
    4. a passively applied AoE damage aura (suck it up, melee!),
    5. an instant-cast AoE fear,
    6. Bewilder,
    7. instant-cast and passively applied self-healing of 50% maximum health on a 60s CD,
    8. an instant and complete reset of all Inq. CDs on demand every 2 min., oh and...
    9. a knockback!
    Now it is true that much of this utility is provided by purgeable buffs. The caveats to this are: 1) other classes have to go well out of their way to acquire purges, and 2) by the time the other player has purged any buffs of consequence he or she will be dead.

    In thinking of Inquisitor I am reminded of a time about a year ago when I played an old-school (non-Escalation) Whitefall Steppes. I was on a well-rounded team of ten Guardians, including three healers and at least one tank. We were crushed by an opposing team of nine Defiant Rogues. At the time, that was the most dramatic illustration of how inept Trion is when it comes to PvP balance - but I think they have now outdone themselves.

    I know a stock reply from the community is, "Trion balances for PvE." Oh yes, Trion obviously balances predominantly for PvE. But how much of the Inquisitor's utility is truly necessary for PvE, particularly given that no other soul in the game is so self-sufficient? And Trion does occasionally make balance changes only for PvP when motivated to by hordes of screaming players. I simply wish to call attention to their latest abomination, as it reminds me of why I will never spend another dollar on this game again. I continue to play for free, of course - after all, my highest-level alt is a Cleric and I look forward to experiencing godmode for myself.

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    1. single-target burst damage comparable to any Pyro,
    2. free passive immunity to the first CC ability cast against it every 2 min.,
    3. the best purge ability in the game,
    4. a passively applied AoE damage aura (suck it up, melee!),
    5. an instant-cast AoE fear,
    6. Bewilder,
    7. instant-cast and passively applied self-healing of 50% maximum health on a 60s CD,
    8. an instant and complete reset of all Inq. CDs on demand every 2 min., oh and...
    9. a knockback!
    1. comparable to pyro - sounds balanced
    2. seems OP, thats gotta be what? At least 99% of all CC right? no? /sarcasm
    3. if by "best" you mean "standard 2 buffs with 10 second cooldown"
    4. ... look at my HUGE ticks of 200 damage in a 5m radius!!! weee!
    5. only good for an occasional fear bomb suicide run, lasts like 2 seconds + broken on any damage
    6. 1 decent CC (still only 3 seconds)
    7. you forgot to mention that it requires that you get hit to heal so by the time you get healed by 50% you're already dead
    8. a standard part of the soul, other classes have it as well
    9. a knockback, since when has that ever stopped anyone?

    weak arguments, try playing inquisitor in pvp before crying about things you obviously have no clue about.

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    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    You are late and the boat left already. It's assassin cry week now.
    I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    1. comparable to pyro - sounds balanced
    In PvE, sure. In PvP, not in conjunction with the volume of other utility.

    2. (Perseverance) seems OP, thats gotta be what? At least 99% of all CC right? no? /sarcasm
    You obviously have no concept of the value of a GCD in PvP.

    3. if by "best" you mean "standard 2 buffs with 10 second cooldown"
    Why yes, I do. Find me a better purge ability.

    4. ... look at my HUGE ticks of 200 damage in a 5m radius!!! weee!
    You obviously have no concept of the value of an extra 200 DPS in PvP, particularly when passively applied.

    5. only good for an occasional fear bomb suicide run, lasts like 2 seconds + broken on any damage
    You lack imagination and/or PvP experience. It is instant-cast; it can serve as an interrupt, a gap-opener, and/or a tool for disengagement.

    6. 1 decent CC (still only 3 seconds)
    See #5, although Bewilder is most commonly used as a tool for engagement and to force the target to Break Free.

    7. you forgot to mention that it requires that you get hit to heal so by the time you get healed by 50% you're already dead
    OMG, that's really your defense? I guess that's where Inquisitor's real skillcheck lies - remembering to cast Judicial Privilege before you are in danger of dying!

    8. a standard part of the soul, other classes have [a complete CD reset on demand] as well
    A few do, not all. Considering the power of the other Inquisitor abilities in combination, it is hardly necessary.

    9. a knockback, since when has that ever stopped anyone?
    It hasn't; I mentioned that at the end partly for comedic value. If Trion makes any changes at all, I suspect it will be to remove Excommunicate. After all, why would an Inquisitor fear any target so much he or she would need to knock it back?

    weak arguments, try playing inquisitor in pvp before crying about things you obviously have no clue about.
    Oh wait - I have! Both as one and (many times) against one! Try learning to PvP before you showcase your ignorance on the subject.

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

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    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    You are late and the boat left already. It's assassin cry week now.
    I couldn't find any QQ threads about Inquisitors, so I figured I'd start my own. But I am reasonably certain that 'Sins were buffed because the Rogue dev was displeased to find that he couldn't gank 61-Inqs.

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

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    Champion of Telara kronor's Avatar
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    Inquisitor is powerfull (op as hell against warriors/rogues) but not because of anything mentioned here

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    rogues 61MM purge ability is better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    single-target burst damage comparable to any Pyro
    It has significantly less burst than Pyro.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    free passive immunity to the first CC ability cast against it every 2 min
    Which can be purged and requires it be used proactively, also is consumed on proccing AoE CC like ground target snares that re-apply every 1s. It's guaranteed to be gone within half a second of using the ability in most cases.

    I'd much prefer having Flicker, which breaks all CC and is a port, with a significantly shorter cooldown.

    Or an 8s root that doesn't break on damage (Bright Wizard 2.0).

    Or both!

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    the best purge ability in the game
    While almost everything of value is no longer purgeable in PvP, and many specs constantly proc effects that are purgeable but aren't really things you care to purge.

    But really, MM has the best purge in the game. It purges 5x more.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    a passively applied AoE damage aura (suck it up, melee!)
    Which is not as strong as Warlock Armor, for instance, and ticks for about 100 damage every 3 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    an instant-cast AoE fear
    Which is PBAoE and breaks on damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    Bewilder
    Which shares immunity timers with everything ever, meaning the probability that you won't see "Immune" on a target is approximately 0.000001% outside of a 1v1.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    instant-cast and passively applied self-healing of 50% maximum health on a 60s CD
    Which has an ICD and provides HPS significantly below the DPS of all known PvP builds, including tanks, and is severely uncompetitive with the passive survivability of Harbs, for instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    an instant and complete reset of all Inq. CDs on demand every 2 min.
    Which is required because NR can be broken so easily in PvP and is our only reliable form of burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    a knockback
    After knockbacks were severely nerfed and almost every PvP spec has a port or a charge, and with no fall damage. The distance is also quite bad.
    Last edited by Multimax; 08-15-2013 at 01:26 PM.

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    Fellas fellas, the real question here is who cares about pvp? It's not like cq or the warfronts are designed primarily for players to utilize their skill. You keep your distance from the clusterf*ck, smash your keys hard and fast and hope to take someone down with you before you die. That's it. It's an absurd exercise and the only thing more absurd would be to attempt to balance the game around it.


    Besides there's already an official qq thread for people like you that can't adapt to new challenges.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Multimax,

    Quote Originally Posted by Multimax View Post
    It has significantly less burst than Pyro.
    I think the burst damage is quite comparable in the sense that players' health pools are too small for the difference to be all that significant. While Pyro's Prime->Fulminate->Fusillade is likely superior to Inq's Sanction Heretic->Nysyr's Rebuke->Unified Theory Proc->Fanaticism->Bolt of Depravity in terms of pure DPS, the effect on the target's health pool in PvP is quite similar.

    For the record I think that Pyro has its own balance issues in PvP and is also broken; it's just that other specs are "even more broken." Also, the current paradigm of low time-to-kill in PvP is likely obfuscating the issue.

    [Perseverance] can be purged and requires it be used proactively, also is consumed on proccing AoE CC like ground target snares that re-apply every 1s. It's guaranteed to be gone within half a second of using the ability in most cases.

    I'd much prefer having Flicker, which breaks all CC and is a port, with a significantly shorter cooldown.

    Or an 8s root that doesn't break on damage (Bright Wizard 2.0).

    Or both!
    I agree, I'd rather have Flicker too. But the fact that Inq has Perseverance at all means that CC-dependent builds need to expend one more GCD, at the least, in order to have the desired effect. Even if it's a purge, that's still a GCD expended and Perseverance has served its purpose.

    The fact that it needs to be reapplied every two minutes is understandably an annoyance, but that's why KaruulAlert and NKRebuff exist. PvP is largely about vigilance and preparation, so there's no excuse for an Inq having Perseverance off CD when PvP is likely.

    While almost everything of value is no longer purgeable in PvP, and many specs constantly proc effects that are purgeable but aren't really things you care to purge.

    But really, MM has the best purge in the game. It purges 5x more.
    I concede that Marksman has the most powerful purge in the game. I had forgotten about MM, perhaps because it's no longer widely played. But consider also that one needs to invest 44 points into MM to acquire Eradicate, but only 12 points into Inquisitor to acquire Purge. And really, having the SECOND-best purge ability in the game does nothing to detract from its power in conjunction with all other Inq abilities.

    I think you also discount the value of purgeable buffs:

    Mage Armor Buffs? Bye.
    Shield buffs? Bye.
    Stat buffs? Bye.
    Split Personality? Bye.


    [Shroud of Agony] Which is not as strong as Warlock Armor, for instance, and ticks for about 100 damage every 3 seconds.
    I think you underestimate its value. I've seen PvP parses where Shroud of Agony accounts for an extra 100-200 DPS, and it's passively applied. It's free DPS against melee-range targets. Alone it is not significant; it is yet another straw that needs to be considered in light of all the other abilities in Inq's kit.

    And no one plays Warlock for PvP anymore, presumably because its TTK is too high.


    [Trepidation] Which is PBAoE and breaks on damage.
    As I mentioned in my reply to Redcruxs, it is a multi-purpose tool. It can be used as an interrupt, a gap-opener, and/or a tool for disengagement. It can be used as an opener with the intent of forcing the target to Break Free and having the target risk aggro from nearby MOBs. It's utility is largely limited by players' imagination, although given the power of Inq's other abilities (let alone burst damage) Trepidation is typically unused.

    [Bewilder]Which shares immunity timers with everything ever, meaning the probability that you won't see "Immune" on a target is approximately 0.000001% outside of a 1v1.
    Exaggeration does not make for good argumentation. Tracking the timers on diminishing returns is part of the skill in Rift's PvP.


    [Judicial Privilege]Which has an ICD and provides HPS significantly below the DPS of all known PvP builds, including tanks, and is severely uncompetitive with the passive survivability of Harbs, for instance.
    Judicial Privilege doesn't need to outheal the opponent's DPS, it only needs to sufficiently offset it - and it does this superbly. You should mentally double the health of any Inq you see (one I face frequently usually has 31k+), because of Judicial Privilege and Radical Coalescence.

    Passive survivability of Harbinger? I presume you don't mean the increased Dodge chance, but rather the synergy from Chloro/Harb builds? Passive single-target healing from Chloro's LIfegiving Veil is quite minor, particularly relative to Inq's burst damage. Instant-cast heals allowed from procs of Harb's Eldritch Armor are generally solved with a simple cast of Purge. Sure the Mage could rebuff in combat, but very few do. Harbinger hybrid builds are quite susceptible to purging in general; I know, because that's how I kill them.

    Which is required because NR can be broken so easily in PvP and is our only reliable form of burst.
    Seriously, Nysyr's Rebuke is so easily broken? It's only a three-second channel; very few players even realize that you are casting it in sufficient time for them to react, and even fewer play well enough to reserve an interrupt just for that spell. And remember that Perseverance will protect against that many more potential interrupts.

    So those very, very few players who play well enough to circumvent your Perseverance, reserve an interrupt for your Nysyr's Rebuke, and react in time for it to be of consequence are rewarded with you casting Radical Coalescence.


    After knockbacks were severely nerfed and almost every PvP spec has a port or a charge, and with no fall damage. The distance is also quite bad.
    I included it at the end partly for comedic value. Honestly, I'm not concerned with Excommunicate - it's just the icing on the cake.

    Thank you, however, for maintaining a civil and thoughtful tone throughout your reply.

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

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    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chatlagh View Post
    Besides there's already an official qq thread for people like you that can't adapt to new challenges.
    Thank you for the lol! I "liked" your reply.

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Not that I'm saying it and Pyro don't have issues in PvP. But on the purge point. It's actually the 4th best purge in the game, behind Eradicate, the BM purge on Fierce Strike (no cooldown), and Archon's Purging Flames (no cooldown and AoE but has a cast time).
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-15-2013 at 02:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heihojin View Post
    Thank you for the lol! I "liked" your reply.
    It's the only reason I keep posting

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    MM is not widely played?
    1) pyro is not the only burst soul in game. It's not even the only burst soul in mages. So inq, is I'm cahoots with quite a few souls/builds
    2) tack that on to other double break free ability. And it's on a 2min cd and can be eaten by any and all useless CC. So unless yer 1v1ing...
    3) already conceded this one
    4) which many have, some stronger. And let's not forget the ones that are global like warlocks and Doms. That also persist through death if you have any dot still ticking on them.
    Both of which aren't proc based. And hits harder. And warlock and Dom reflect shields are low point ability, and necrolock, one of the stronger burst builds is indeed widely played.
    5)breaks on damage
    6) breaks on damage
    7) and 8) could be topics of discussion
    9) available to most pvp specs

    You can complain about many things about inqs. You happen to only touch on 2.
    And it doesn't even seem like you pvp much since you don't know current builds.

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    Rift Disciple heihojin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Not that I'm saying it and Pyro don't have issues in PvP. But on the purge point. It's actually the 4th best purge in the game, behind Eradicate, the BM purge on Fierce Strike (no cooldown), and Archon's Purging Flames (no cooldown and AoE but has a cast time).
    Okay, I'll admit it - I misspoke when I said that Inq has the most powerful or the second-most powerful purge in the game, because I was only considering PvP contexts in which Inquisitor is typically employed (solo or small-group encounters). It is true that BM's and Archon's purges are also superior in terms of number of buffs purged per second, although neither BM nor Archon are prevalent or effective in solo/small-group PvP.

    And...Inq's Purge still only requires 12 points. How about, "best purge by value in the game?"

    "If you want uninterrupted PvE questing, choosing a PvE server is definitely recommended." - Scott Hartsman, posted Feb. 10, 2011

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