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Thread: Cleric Healing Souls, Suggestions.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Default Cleric Healing Souls, Suggestions.

    Oki dont make fun but clearly I was a bit bored at work.

    Let's just say we know kervik has his work cut out for him on the cleric healing souls, and so far, all we have seen is puri suggestions, and not much else. So this is totally for fun.

    Personally I feel (again differs from many lines of thought, and I dont care) that every healing class in the game should be 100% equally capable of healing 5 man content (meaning its approximately equally easy on each class to do an expert dungeon). I dont know if that is achieved with the following changes but I do know that some classes are innately way easier (example 61 chloro vs 61 defiler). One big reason for this is that many new players get royally frustrated when they pick a healing class, that eventually becomes really hard to use in more casual play such as normal dungeons over other healing specs.

    With two new healing souls coming out, you know they will be made to be able to both tank and raid heal just like chloro, since the goal is to enable them be able to heal five man dungeons as easily as a chloro can.

    Therefore I felt that healing changes needed to take place. I took basically what kervik has posted so far, and tried to make each healing soul in cleric at 61 points equal in ability to heal on 5 man content, still fill a niche, but also be able to help out in little ways in the other areas of healing (single target and AOE), though they heal in vastly different ways.


    Summary:
    61 sentinal: Still the king in single target healing and single target CDs. Now has about the same splash heal and raid heal capability as a lifebound chloro, but not equal in LGV chloro. Has extra insentive to bring now with some minor continual ST mitigation tools on multiple tanks.
    61 Purifier: Still king in spike damage prevention with shields. Raid shields are added back in with larger cooldowns. This class is more versatile, having some CDs available for the tank as well as some for the raid, but not as many in either category as sent or warden. Also removed a lot of abilities from being completely obsolete once new abilities were gained. All abilities will still have use in endgame.
    61 Warden: Ramped up the DPS ability a lot by warden. Gave it abilities to refresh both its hots and dots and ways to concentrate on either single target or AOE damage without a hinderance on healing. Changed talents a little to help encourage the use of geyser over healing cataract when enemies are present. Because of hot refreshes tank healing should be a little easier in five mans by opening up more GCDs.
    61 Defiler: Gave a few more raid healing CDs (not nearly as powerful as any AOE healing out there from other specs but will help when needed) and added some focus for more continual healing on tanks. Added new skills to help defilers still be desired over necromancers if a defiler is available.

    Again, its a long post, and most of it is overpowered, but that is not my concern. My ONLY intent is to give kervik more things to bounce around in his brain along with everything else. I just really care a lot about the cleric healing classes and if the new warrior and rogue healing classes are as powerful as a chloro them I'm genuinly concerned about a clerics place as healer during raids.

    Non of these suggestions really take PVP into consideration. I apologize for that.

    Purifier:

    Ability Changes:
    *Char: is now instant cast. Not castable on targets already affected by char.
    *Ward of Flame: Now a 3 second channelled ability that heals and applies a ward each second. The wards stack up to 3 times. Cannot move while channeling.
    *Ward of Fire: Now A medium heal with a medium ward that stacks with ward of flame. 3 second cast.
    *Ward of Scorching: Large Ward with a large heal 2 second cast, high mana cost. No GCD. Does not stack with ward of fire.
    *Ward of Torching: A heal and ward applied to 10 party or raid members. The ward lasts 10 seconds or until consumed. 30 second CD.
    *Symbol of Sun: Can now only affect 3 targets at a time. If Symbol of the sun is applied to a 4th target, your first target will be removed and burnout applied. Cannot be applied to a target with symbol of the torch currently active.
    *Symbol of the Torch: Now a 20 second CD, same power as symbol of the sun but can be applied to a target reguardless of burnout conditions and does not apply burnout. Cannot be applied to a target with symbol of the sun currently active. No GCD.
    *Gathering of ancestors: A large absorbtion shield applied to 20 party or raid members. Absorbs 50% of the damage dealt until X damage is absorbed. Then heals for a certain amount if the shield is consumed. lasts 30 seconds.
    *Eruption: Is now not castable on targets with eruption currently on them. Does not trigger Global Cooldown.
    *Premonition - Removed Ability
    *New ability: Aspect of the Flames - The caster gains a damage absorbtion shield every 15 seconds while in combat that absorbs 20% of incoming damage up to X damage (small amount). Allows the caster to use all learned symbols simultaneously and reduces the burnout applied by the caster by 5 seconds.

    Talent Changes:
    *Safe haven: Increases the spell power on wards and symbols by 4/8/10%. Each full channel of ward of flame applies a stacking buff that reduces the cast time of your next single target ward by 0.5 seconds. Lasts 20 seconds. Stacks up to six times.
    *Clear the coals: has a 5 to 10% chance to apply a stacking buff to the cleric that lasts 20 seconds whenever the cleric fully channels or casts a single target ward, up to five stacks total. Upon recieving atleast one stack of clear the coals, a reactive ability appears that will remove burnout from a total amount of party members equal to the amount of stacks consumed. Burnout removal is always prioritized on party members affected by eruption.
    *Emblem of Ashes: Increases damage by flame lance / char by 10/20%. Causes flame lance to heal 5 other party or raid members for X health 1/2 times as well as an additional time if the target is affected by Char; each trigger is 0.5 seconds apart.


    Warden

    General: Changed all base times for Heal over time and damage over time effects to 16 seconds.

    Ability Changes:
    *Ripple: Now applies 4 stacks of soothing stream and 1 stack of healing spray to the target and 4 other targets.
    *Orb of the tide: No longer triggers GCD
    *Orb of the stream: No longer triggers GCD
    *Healing Flood: Now affects 20 party or raid members.
    *Oversaturation: Changed purpose - Refreshes and spreads all your current water damage overtime effects to 5 nearby enemies
    *Glassy Reflection: Can now also be used on other players.
    *Bosun's Blessing: Now also increases the cleric's health by 10%.
    *New ability - Typhoon, lvl 40: Toggle ability, causes geyser to deal 25% less damage but deals damage to 5 other enemies near the main target.

    Talents Changes:
    *Reef Barrior - Changed: Healing flood also reduces damage recieved by 2/4% for its duration.
    *Under Pressure: Increases damage done with call of the depths and geyser by 20%/30/60%. Causes water jet to have a 33%/66%/100% chance to refresh dehydrate and call of the depths, and also deals 30%/60%/100% of its damage over 16 seconds.
    *Invigoration: Also gives overflowing renewal a 50%/100% chance to refresh healing spray and soothing stream currently on the target and to reduce the current cooldown of orbs of the stream by 1/2 second.


    Sentinal

    Ability Changes:
    *Healing Communion - removed
    *New ability - Massive Invocation: Heals up to ten party or raid members. 2 second cast. (since its an invocation it now triggers invocation talents, such as the chance for no GCD on healing breath, etc)
    *Flash of Radiance - Applies banish and a debuff to all enemies within a 35 meter radius that increases the damage they recieve by 10% for 12 seconds. 45 second CD.
    *Divine Call: Changed to a 2 minute CD. Fully heals all party or raid members for the clerics maximum health.
    *Healer's Haste: Now reduces the cast time of all cast time heals by 30% for 30 seconds.
    *Wrathful Exhuberance: Cannot be cast on targets already affected by wrathful exhuberance.
    *Nyol's Hope: Changed to a toggle ability - causes all of your spells to heal for 25% more health, but also consumes 25% more mana.
    *Marked by Light: Now affects up to 5 party or raid members within 35 meters of the cleric.
    *Light of Redemption: Can now affect up to a maximum of 3 party or raid members. Casting on a fourth player will remove the oldest buff. Cannot be cast on players currently affected by light of redemption. This buff also reduces damage recieved by 7%.

    Talent Changes:
    *Echoes of altruism: increased healing of echos of altruism from 4/8/12% to 8/16/24%. Echoes of Altruism now also triggers wrathful exhuberance.
    *Attentive: Also increases your mana regeneration by 100% for 10 seconds if your target of wrathful exhuberance drops below 50% of their maximum health. Cannot be triggered more than once every 10 seconds.
    *Noble Supplication: Also increases the cleric's maximum health by 4/8/12%.


    Defiler

    Ability Changes:
    *Siphon vitality: Now also heals your linked targets for the same amount. Healing is increased based on the power of the links.
    *Feedback: Now affects up to 10 party or raid members.
    *Explosive Growth: No longer triggers GCD.
    *New ability: 40 points - Massive Growth: Applies one stack of foul growth to up to 10 party or raid members. Instant cast, 15 second CD, does not trigger GCD.
    *New Ability: 32 points - Overgrowth: Self Buff, 20% of the overhealing you recieved from siphon vitality heals five other party or raid members.
    *New Ability: 61 points - Agonizing Support: Self buff, increases health by 10%, allows husk of indifference to absorb 30% more damage, and all link abilities become 30% links.

    Talent Changes:
    *Peak of form: Changed to increase damage done, healing done, and absorbtion done by 2/4/6/8/10%. (No health requirement).

    Oki have fun. Again, lots of the abilities are OP, its not meant to be taken as a complete package but just merely ideas to jog some grey matter. I hope to see more ideas from peeps as well on what they feel will help out their classes compete with the new ones coming and even the onest that exist already.

    Again I want to reiterate that I have not taken any PVP consideration with my suggestions. Every suggestion really was for ideas for the dungeon and raid focused healer.
    Last edited by Xenoheart; 08-06-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  2. #2
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    *Premonition - Removed Ability
    *New ability: Aspect of the Flames - The caster gains a damage absorbtion shield every 15 seconds while in combat that absorbs 20% of incoming damage up to X damage (small amount). Allows the caster to use all learned SIGNS simultaneously and reduces the burnout applied by the caster by 5 seconds.
    I meant signs. Not symbols
    Xenohart
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    Shield of Telara Isadore's Avatar
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    Nice post!

    I am pretty worried that we are gonna get the short end of the stick once the new heal souls come out (rogue,warrior heals). Not very inspired by what I have seen sofar on changes, but I do see a ton of people coming up with some great ideas.

  4. #4
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    A lot of the suggestions would be ridiculously overpowered but you did mention that already. In general I don't agree that every spec should be equally capable of healing experts. Every class should (so this pertains to the new rogue and warrior healing souls), but warden is better for raids and sentinel is better for experts, I don't see a problem with that at all. Dominator is better for large AoE and pyro is better for ST and boss encounters. Players that cannot make use of multiple builds are not really making use of their class.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-06-2013 at 11:20 AM.

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    Rift Master Krumelur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    A lot of the suggestions would be ridiculously overpowered but you did mention that already. In general I don't agree that every spec should be equally capable of healing experts. Every class should (so this pertains to the new rogue and warrior healing souls), but warden is better for raids and sentinel is better for experts, I don't see a problem with that at all. Dominator is better for large AoE and pyro is better for ST and boss encounters. Players that cannot make use of multiple builds are not really making use of their class.
    Not to mention hybrids! That's the strength I love about Cleric healing, that we can make hybrid healing builds that fit a situation better (or your play style). At least in lesser content than progression raiding. :P

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    A lot of the suggestions would be ridiculously overpowered but you did mention that already. In general I don't agree that every spec should be equally capable of healing experts. Every class should (so this pertains to the new rogue and warrior healing souls), but warden is better for raids and sentinel is better for experts, I don't see a problem with that at all. Dominator is better for large AoE and pyro is better for ST and boss encounters. Players that cannot make use of multiple builds are not really making use of their class.
    I do agree. However the main strength of chloro, I think you will find in the other specs as well, which is the ability to heal the raid or the tank on the fly...in one class, and the ability to switch to either while in combat.

    cleric's cannot do this in a high end raid setting. Its so impactful that our regulos farm now consists of the following

    2 chloros
    1 Puri
    3 Necromancers.

    All the other clerics go DPS now. Chloros are the main healers, the puri helps with ST CDS and gets the entire raid shielded (which is dissapearing soon so we'll probably just add a third chloro).

    I know you want classes that are just good for experts, just good for raid healing, or just good for shield botting. But unfortunately not being able to be versatile in high end raid settings MID FIGHT is exactly why we dont bring cleric healing anymore and will only further be impacted once new classes come into the game that can bring both while in combat.

    We only bring one warden on one fight now and thats crucia. We've never brought a sentinal and purifier we likely wont bring anymore once SOS goes away.

    Clerics should not be getting last dibs on healing spots in raids. Its so bassackwards.
    Last edited by Xenoheart; 08-06-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krumelur View Post
    Not to mention hybrids! That's the strength I love about Cleric healing, that we can make hybrid healing builds that fit a situation better (or your play style). At least in lesser content than progression raiding. :P
    Really when it comes down to it hybrids (of all natures) are very viable in Rift right now, while not overshadowing the 61 point builds. Everyone says hybrids aren't viable because they are referring to progression raiding, which lends itself to people running very specific roles. Hybrids are only used in progression raiding when either 1. it fulfulls a pure role very well (i.e. NB/Sin is similar to the pure NB role with lethal poison, or pyrochon that fulfills the full archon role with higher DPS -- this is an example of a 61 point build being overshadowed) or 2. 10 man raids where one person needs to cover multiple roles because of the limited number of people (wtb master mode dungeons). Otherwise the strength of a pure healing, pure DPS, or pure tanking build must be maximized. Then there's Defiler.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-06-2013 at 11:32 AM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    I do agree. However the main strength of chloro, I think you will find in the other specs as well, which is the ability to heal the raid or the tank on the fly...in one class, and the ability to switch to either while in combat.

    cleric's cannot do this in a high end raid setting. Its so impactful that our regulos farm now consists of the following

    2 chloros
    1 Puri
    3 Necromancers.

    All the other clerics go DPS now. Chloros are the main healers, the puri helps with ST CDS and gets the entire raid shielded (which is dissapearing soon so we'll probably just add a third chloro).

    I know you want classes that are just good for experts, just good for raid healing, or just good for shield botting. But unfortunately not being able to be versatile in high end raid settings MID FIGHT is exactly why we dont bring cleric healing anymore and will only further be impacted once new classes come into the game that can bring both while in combat.

    We only bring one warden on one fight now and thats crucia. We've never brought a sentinal and purifier we likely wont bring anymore once SOS goes away.

    Clerics should not be getting last dibs on healing spots in raids. Its so bassackwards.
    Well that's the Chloro elephant in the room really. Cleric healing specs are stronger and have more options at their roles because they do not have the flexibility between ST and AoE. But if encounters are made that require more healing than chloros can cover, mage healers are devalued. And compounding that is Chloro's trump card Wild Growth. I think chloro could be brought down a notch to raise the importance of cleric healers but I fear this will only get worse when Rogue and Warrior healers have to be viable as well.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 08-06-2013 at 11:38 AM.

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    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    And compounding that is Chloro's trump card Wild Growth. I think chloro could be brought down a notch to raise the importance of cleric healers but I fear this will only get worse when Rogue and Warrior healers have to be viable as well.
    This exactly 1000 times over. Its nice to excell at one particular type of healing really well, but if three classes can do everything decently well, then you dont need the niche healers except for specific niche situations (orbital strike crucia, for example).

    All these threads of new players asking...I want to heal, what role should I play? Nearly every answer is chloro, not cleric. Next it'll be liberator or crucader...whatever is the warrior one, phsyician or chloro. Cleric wont even be mentioned.
    Last edited by Xenoheart; 08-06-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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    Shield of Telara Isadore's Avatar
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    At this point, I'm worried that raiding in the future might look like this...

    2 chloros
    1 rogue heals
    1 warrior heals
    if missing 1 of the above...1 Warden
    1 support Cleric with the equivalent of ferver and wild growth, but is mostly focused on dps.
    1 Necro or Defiler as needed


    Great 5 man heals....

    chloros
    rogue heals
    warrior heals
    2-3 cleric heal specs that are still subpar in certain fights
    Last edited by Isadore; 08-06-2013 at 12:35 PM.

  11. #11
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isadore View Post
    Great 5 man heals....

    chloros
    rogue heals
    warrior heals
    2-3 cleric heal specs
    While I agree there is a potential issue in raids I'm not sure what your point is here. Every class needs to have a viable 5 man healing spec. Warriors, rogues and mages only have one healing spec so that one must be able to heal 5 mans. Clerics have more choices so they do not all have to be as capable at that one specific kind of content.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara Isadore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    While I agree there is a potential issue in raids I'm not sure what your point is here. Every class needs to have a viable 5 man healing spec. Warriors, rogues and mages only have one healing spec so that one must be able to heal 5 mans. Clerics have more choices so they do not all have to be as capable at that one specific kind of content.
    Just pointing out we may get more relegated to 5 man healing in the future, but less viable as far as raiding goes on our healing specs.

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    Rift Master Krumelur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Really when it comes down to it hybrids (of all natures) are very viable in Rift right now, while not overshadowing the 61 point builds. Everyone says hybrids aren't viable because they are referring to progression raiding, which lends itself to people running very specific roles. Hybrids are only used in progression raiding when either 1. it fulfulls a pure role very well (i.e. NB/Sin is similar to the pure NB role with lethal poison, or pyrochon that fulfills the full archon role with higher DPS -- this is an example of a 61 point build being overshadowed) or 2. 10 man raids where one person needs to cover multiple roles because of the limited number of people (wtb master mode dungeons). Otherwise the strength of a pure healing, pure DPS, or pure tanking build must be maximized. Then there's Defiler.
    In some fights I use 36 Puri (for the double shield) and 40 Defiler (for Explosive of course) and others I go full Sent. Neither spec is AE focused, but the former is much better on the move with lots of high hitting AE (or on a "random person") than the latter, imo (Manslaughter for example). Just an example of what I love. :P *rambling again*

    I think I'll try and get legit married to the numbers 36/40. Sweden is pretty conservative when it comes to number marriage though! I can only choose to marry a man or a woman.

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