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Thread: And adventuring through these Rift forums...

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default And adventuring through these Rift forums...

    Err sorry for this kind of post. Really i'm trying to avoid it but it's a question that i'll only feel answered when someone comes and answers it with arguments that i could consider solid. Although i'm a newbie player, i'm pretty aware that this patch gave clerics the oportunity to compete in the DPS department with the mages. And yes, while my first toon was a mage (and he is still there) i'm still wondering: Why so much QQ about cleric buffs?
    No i'm not being sarcastic, i'm being serious, why?
    During the time i played mage i found eveything someone would want but a tank, look:

    1 - Chloromancer

    A condensed soul for healing that, in adition to healing, can contribute to the party DPS.

    2 - Pyromancer, Warlock, Necromancer and Harbinger

    4 souls that do have a lot of potential for Single Target DPS (not to mention Necro utility with that shield and the pet)

    3 - Necromancer and Stormcaller

    2 souls that do have great aoe potential

    So lets see: mages have a condensed healing tree and decent DPS for all the situations... Oh and i forgot to add that they can suport :P

    Before this patch, what i only could think of clerics was something like this:

    They have all their healing potential spread through 3 trees.
    They can't be competitive in the DPS department.

    And after this, i saw the light at the very end of the tunnel for the DPS department (also, about their healing potential being spread thorugh 3 trees, who cares? all of them are needed in a raid anyway :P)

    So i looked at the patch notes, and what i saw, at least on the PVE side was DPS balance.
    I would like to know what exactly is making them the OP thing many people are talking.
    I should also remember that i'm still new to the game and you can correct absolutely anything that is wrong in my post.
    And do not come with rudeness cause it's unecessary.
    Your attention is much appreciated.

    PS: Yeah i read the End of the world thread but i'm still confused. And if you are a biased player, reconsider not replying to this post, i need the answer from someone that can look to all the souls impartially.

    BTW, sorry for the english, it is not my native language although i try to improve.
    And i'm feeling flames while clicking the "Submit New Thread" button.
    Last edited by Nizael; 08-01-2013 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #2
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Pre-patch, Cleric DPS was lower than other DPS because of the way our souls are made. Now, Cleric DPS is more equal to that of the other callings.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser Sikph's Avatar
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    It's just a stigma that has arisen since the beginning of Rift. In the 'fantasy genre' that many mmo's are set in, Warriors, Mages and Rogues are widely understood and you know what to expect. It's the typical trinity of character classes. However, a lot of these fantasy mediums like to include more options than just these three, and in this instance Cleric is the ugly duckling or the Cinderella of the group.

    Essentially, opinions are just very divided about what should and should not be. No matter what the developers say, or what logic dictates, or what fairness and equality means, there's always going to be people that look at something and shake their head, denying all reason in favor of their own personal ideals.

    It's very sad.

    This is why I play Cleric mostly, because I like to not be 'normal'. Life's more interesting that way.
    Last edited by Sikph; 08-01-2013 at 05:29 PM.

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    Rift Disciple
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    Yet Chloromancers are still generally superior at healing.
    Pyromancers are still higher ranged DPS, while having better target switching capability.
    Harbingers are still higher melee DPS, while having the best disconnect DPS in the game along with insane survivability, while also having the best target swapping cooldown in the game.

    We're still behind almost universally, yet the QQ ensues.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    Yet Chloromancers are still generally superior at healing.
    Pyromancers are still higher ranged DPS, while having better target switching capability.
    Harbingers are still higher melee DPS, while having the best disconnect DPS in the game along with insane survivability, while also having the best target swapping cooldown in the game.

    We're still behind almost universally, yet the QQ ensues.
    not quite, properly itemized shamans are equal with harb (don't know about pyro vs inq, but shaman is higher than pyro)

    ^
    based on crucia vs a harb that usually beats me on dps

    harb do better on disconnect though
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 08-01-2013 at 06:04 PM.

  6. #6
    General of Telara Kriptini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    Yet Chloromancers are still generally superior at healing.
    Not true. Chloros are pretty much equal to Sent for ST or Warden for AoE. Chloros do have Living Energy, Wild Growth, and good DPS while healing relative to Sent and Warden, which is why they are generally preferred.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    Yet Chloromancers are still generally superior at healing.
    Pyromancers are still higher ranged DPS, while having better target switching capability.
    Harbingers are still higher melee DPS, while having the best disconnect DPS in the game along with insane survivability, while also having the best target swapping cooldown in the game.

    We're still behind almost universally, yet the QQ ensues.
    Errr wait a minute...
    I've been reading posts and assuming the boss does not move that much, Shaman DPS can reach Harbinger's tier. If that situation would make something like that happen, and inquisitor is a little behind shaman for ST DPS, i'd say its the same thing for "Pyromancer's DPS behind Harbinger's DPS". From what i see, inqs and pyros are at the same tier of dps... Remember i'm newbie and i have the right to be wrong
    Last edited by Nizael; 08-01-2013 at 09:00 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nizael View Post
    Errr wait a minute...
    I've been reading posts and assuming the boss does not move that much, Shaman DPS can reach Harbinger's tier. If that situation would make something like that happen, and inquisitor is a little behind shaman for ST DPS, i'd say its the same thing for "Pyromancer's DPS behind Harbinger's DPS". From what i see, inqs and pyros are at the same tier of dps... Remember i'm newbie and i have the right to be wrong
    There are very few fights in the game that do not have some form of melee disconnect. Many fights include a random target-swap or damage-another-target mechanics (generally only 1 other target). Because of both of these facts, Harbinger will consistently do better than Shaman, since it has abilities that are designed to exploit these cases.

    Inquisitor isn't close to Shaman. It also can't deal with target swapping in any capacity at all, but Pyro is quite good at swapping.

    Chloro brings enormous support abilities while being able to provide tank healing and/or raid healing competitive with our 61-point niche builds, while also providing more DPS than either.

    There's really no realistic scenario where a Cleric is ideal or even preferred to a Mage, unless you're talking tanking, for now.
    Last edited by Zomtik; 08-01-2013 at 10:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Scerenis's Avatar
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    Clerics must not be too OP because I still get shouted at for DPSing as one in PvP



    So many people see clerics as 'that one class who should do one thing and one thing only', that one thing being heal.
    These changes actually make PvE competitiveness viable and even helped out with making more cleric souls viable for PvP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragerblade View Post
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  10. #10
    Rift Chaser parangea's Avatar
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    the QQ you see is from the pvp department.

    before the buffs inquisitors were allready extremely strong in pvp, now they're over the top-OP.
    Druid buffs also have a great influence in pvp. they can get an insane amount of extra dmg for a limited amount of time, making their burst OP.
    cabalists now are able to crit for 15K in pvp. 'nuff said.

    sure, the changes are great for pve, but everyone always forgets about the angry step child.
    R.I.P: Paraygon lvl-60 & Parangea lvl-60 <The Lords of War@bloodiron>
    It saddens me to see what Rift pvp has become. The laughing stock of the gaming world.

  11. #11
    dbe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    Yet Chloromancers are still generally superior at healing.
    I'm curious if you've played both.

    Sentinel is is on par with chloro for tank healing and has more cooldowns for tank survival. Chloro brings steadier heals, more dps, and the ability to switch to aoe healing in combat. And a couple of buffs (which is nice, kinda wish cleric healers had something similar).

    And the dps isn't even that much more, it's just more.

    You also have to take healing meters with a grain of salt, There's a lot they don't account for.
    Last edited by dbe; 08-02-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbe View Post
    I'm curious if you've played both.

    Sentinel is is on par with chloro for tank healing and has more cooldowns for tank survival. Chloro brings steadier heals, more dps, and the ability to switch to aoe healing in combat. And a couple of buffs (which is nice, kinda wish cleric healers had something similar).

    And the dps isn't even that much more, it's just more.

    You also have to take healing meters with a grain of salt, There's a lot they don't account for.
    I have healed as both, just as I have also DPSed as Pyro and Harb when I compare them to Inq and Shaman.

    Sentinel can heal a tank, but there is no fight in the game where those cooldowns are actually necessary, meaning they aren't some sort of advantage. So if you look at it from that perspective, as a Sentinel, you're standing there casting HI, a random HB on a player as a spot heal or HF if you're in a raid for a little extra raid healing. In that boat, you are a low-DPS, non-energy-reduction-providing, non-dps-boosting Chloro without a cooldown as good as Flourish.

  13. #13
    Soulwalker
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    Everyone will get upset when they feel someone else is creeping on their territory. It is just human nature. Part of the problem is that healers are almost universally underplayed in almost every MMO. So when people see them getting buffed to be able to perform other roles, it can viewed as an issue.

    Also: This quote is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikph View Post
    It's just a stigma that has arisen since the beginning of Rift. In the 'fantasy genre' that many mmo's are set in, Warriors, Mages and Rogues are widely understood and you know what to expect. It's the typical trinity of character classes. However, a lot of these fantasy mediums like to include more options than just these three, and in this instance Cleric is the ugly duckling or the Cinderella of the group.
    The "trinity" in an MMO is Tank / Healer / Damage Dealer. (Mages and Rogues both fall into the Damage Dealer category.) Regardless of what you call the classes themselves, those are the three roles 99% of them fall into. Many games have added a 4th pseudo role with CC or Support, but neither of them are considered universally needed. Maybe for a certain encounter, but it is not universal.
    Last edited by Broadway; 08-03-2013 at 09:07 AM. Reason: Added detail / corrected

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