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Thread: Making Sentinal Raid Viable Again version#32

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Lightwish's Avatar
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    Default Making Sentinal Raid Viable Again version#32

    Yes this has been posted many times on this topic; however, the fact that it has been posted so many times means that it is of major concern to us players. Clerics are SUPPOSED to be healers, when you think of cleric in any game, you think- healer usually....except in Rift.

    This threads topic is how to make sentinel a viable raid spec- OR some version of sentinel/warden or sentinel/purifier.

    The status of Cleric healing in game right now:

    - Sentinal can heal tanks in raids, but does not since Chloro's are just that much better at it due to versatility.

    - Sentinel can heal in expert dungeons just fine.

    - Wardens are raid viable as aoe raid healers.

    - Purifiers can be used as raid healers/shielders also.

    What is needed:

    - We need a Cleric spec (preferably Sentinel) that can tank heal in raids with some versatility similar to Chloro's now.

    How to do it:

    There are many suggestions on how to make Sentinal raid viable once more, and those suggestions are scattered throughout these forums. The purpose of this thread is to list those suggestions again- OR new ones until someone listens.

    So if anyone has a suggestion on how to bring cleric raid healing in line with Chloromancy, or have Chloromancy brought back to the level that Clerics are currently at please make your suggestions! I am not sure how to do it, but I am betting some of you have idea's that are viable to make it work!
    Last edited by Lightwish; 07-25-2013 at 10:48 AM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    If clerics are supposed to be healers then our dps and tanking abilities need a nerf.
    If that's not too appetizing, then you must face facts that not every soul will be the best.
    Senti is fine and has a prominent role in the game.

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    lots of people against changes to sentinel. Don't know if it is the PvP crowd that just think it is wonderful as it is or people just literally do not like the soul enough to want to raid with it.

    We have no pure tank healer that is actually wanted in raids. 3 healing souls and not one of them is wanted to perform this job. With puri changes incoming and warden literally neglected from having hardly any single target healing capability, sentinel is the only option.

    I think taking away Living Energy and Wild Growth from chloro is part of the equation but that doesn't fix Sentinel. Chloro is more versatile on so many levels.

  4. #4
    Champion of Telara dead2soon's Avatar
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    Raid encounters are designed with heavy quick damage. Sent is just too slow. Also chloro provides living energy and a nice chunk of dps and wild growth. Sent would have to provide something similar.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    If clerics are supposed to be healers then our dps and tanking abilities need a nerf.
    If that's not too appetizing, then you must face facts that not every soul will be the best.
    Senti is fine and has a prominent role in the game.
    ?

    so mages get to be the best healers, and have top tier dps and support and will soon be able to tank and thats OK but if clerics want to be vaible tank healers we need to have all our other roles nerfed??

    the moral of the story is:

    ****. Not even once.

    Edit: wow... the drug that starts with "M" and ends with "eth" is censored? lol
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 07-25-2013 at 11:20 AM.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    No, if clerics are supposed to be the "best healers" then there is no reason why any of its other roles should be up to snuff. If that is the mentality you have for clerics then you have to accept all that comes with such an ideology, and ideology that took 2 years for us to break.

    Chloro are the most useful healers only in one aspect of the game. You ignoring pvp is cute, but it doesn't make it non existent and any changes to senti to give it any more utility than it has currently will wreck another major feature of the game. A part of the game where chloros are the 'sentis' when it comes to overall usefulness.


    Doesn't change the fact that there is nothing inherently wrong with senti, but content.
    It's like saying "it hurts when I walk barefoot. Lets blow up the ground"

    Lobby for puri to be your tank healer all you want but senti is fine as is.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    One thought I had:

    Right now, Sentinels have a lot of trouble when forced to move, since the bulk of their tank healing comes from cast time abilities that only heal at the end of the cast. I think that changing Subtle Invocation into a channeled ability that heals a few times over 2-4 seconds would help to fix this, because they'd be able to instantly crank out some heals after moving, instead of needing a second or two.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    If clerics are supposed to be healers then our dps and tanking abilities need a nerf.
    If that's not too appetizing, then you must face facts that not every soul will be the best.
    Senti is fine and has a prominent role in the game.
    That's not true.

    The problem has been Trion's insistence that classes with 1 soul must be as versatile as the combination of 3 souls.

    Clerics should be the most versatile healers, being the ones you typically use. Chloros should have niche healing, good for some fights, not for most. Same for the new healing souls.

    Similarly, Warriors should be the most versatile tanks, the ones you should be using almost always. As it is now, Rogues and Clerics are better in most ways, except DPS. They should be niche tanks, good or even best for some fights (not necessarily the same fights, ideally), but not for most.

    Either the specialization issue needs to be addressed, or Clerics and Warriors need an uber-soul just like the other classes, and those 2 superflous souls need to be reworked into something not useless.

    And you're an idiot, honestly, if you think Sentinel has any place in any raid, ever. It doesn't. It's a 5-man spec and who cares about PvP.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    No, if clerics are supposed to be the "best healers" then there is no reason why any of its other roles should be up to snuff. If that is the mentality you have for clerics then you have to accept all that comes with such an ideology, and ideology that took 2 years for us to break.

    Chloro are the most useful healers only in one aspect of the game. You ignoring pvp is cute, but it doesn't make it non existent and any changes to senti to give it any more utility than it has currently will wreck another major feature of the game. A part of the game where chloros are the 'sentis' when it comes to overall usefulness.


    Doesn't change the fact that there is nothing inherently wrong with senti, but content.
    It's like saying "it hurts when I walk barefoot. Lets blow up the ground"

    Lobby for puri to be your tank healer all you want but senti is fine as is.
    I don't recall the OP asking for clerics to be the best healers in the game, we just need to have a tank healing soul that is vaible. Currently sentinel is supposed to be that, but isn't, I don't see how it would harm PVP if sentinels were given the same level of tank heals as a chloro. (note: not even talking about their AOE heals or dps)

    we're not asking to change the whole game around sentinels weakness, or to use your metaphor: it hurts when we walk barefoot, can we please have some shoes like mages have?

    Quote Originally Posted by OP
    What is needed:

    - We need a Cleric spec (preferably Sentinel) that can tank heal in raids with some versatility similar to Chloro's now.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    One thought I had:

    Right now, Sentinels have a lot of trouble when forced to move, since the bulk of their tank healing comes from cast time abilities that only heal at the end of the cast. I think that changing Subtle Invocation into a channeled ability that heals a few times over 2-4 seconds would help to fix this, because they'd be able to instantly crank out some heals after moving, instead of needing a second or two.

    Movement is not a problem for properly specced sentis. Unless there is a perpetual movement raid i dont know about, sentis have more than enough tools to deal with movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    That's not true.

    The problem has been Trion's insistence that classes with 1 soul must be as versatile as the combination of 3 souls.
    If this is about tank healing, then healing versatility is a non issue, as chloro cant raid heal and ST heal proficiently at the same time.

    However, the lot of clerics feel that inqui and cab should be able to ST and AoE dps proficiently so why that thought process is all of a sudden bad is beyond me.

    Most of the complaints, however, arent even about the healing (as there is 100% nothing wrong with senti healing), but about the dps both personal and raid assisted.


    Clerics should be the most versatile healers, being the ones you typically use.
    Then what use are other healers then? Clerics would have the monopoly and no other healers would be needed. Again, there is no inability for sentis to tank heal afaik, chloros are used for its utility.

    But clerics are the most versatile.

    Need a bubbebobble? Get a cleric.
    Strong and fast ST healer? Get a cleric.
    Powerful AoE healer? Get a cleric.

    Chloros should have niche healing, good for some fights, not for most. Same for the new healing souls.
    Why?

    Similarly, Warriors should be the most versatile tanks, the ones you should be using almost always.
    Why? If warriors are good for all fights, then there is no reason not to use them.


    As it is now, Rogues and Clerics are better in most ways, except DPS. They should be niche tanks, good or even best for some fights (not necessarily the same fights, ideally), but not for most.
    Why?

    Either the specialization issue needs to be addressed, or Clerics and Warriors need an uber-soul just like the other classes, and those 2 superflous souls need to be reworked into something not useless.
    Or content needs to be designed around different specs

    And you're an idiot,
    This statement is usually followed by something stupid.

    Lets see if that holds up.

    [quote]
    honestly, if you think Sentinel has any place in any raid, ever.

    It doesn't.
    [quote]

    Due to its lack of healing i presume?

    It's a 5-man spec and who cares about PvP.

    Here we go.

  11. #11
    Champion of Telara dead2soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    No, if clerics are supposed to be the "best healers" then there is no reason why any of its other roles should be up to snuff. If that is the mentality you have for clerics then you have to accept all that comes with such an ideology, and ideology that took 2 years for us to break.

    Chloro are the most useful healers only in one aspect of the game. You ignoring pvp is cute, but it doesn't make it non existent and any changes to senti to give it any more utility than it has currently will wreck another major feature of the game. A part of the game where chloros are the 'sentis' when it comes to overall usefulness.


    Doesn't change the fact that there is nothing inherently wrong with senti, but content.
    It's like saying "it hurts when I walk barefoot. Lets blow up the ground"

    Lobby for puri to be your tank healer all you want but senti is fine as is.
    I sort of agree. I love sent in PVP. It's great for dungeons. Raids not so much. Getting it to be useful in all 3 is the trick. In all fairness read the title of the post. We don't need it to be the best but we would like it good enough to be considered for the job.

  12. #12
    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redcruxs View Post
    I don't recall the OP asking for clerics to be the best healers in the game, we just need to have a tank healing soul that is vaible.
    Clerics are SUPPOSED to be healers, when you think of cleric in any game, you think- healer usually....except in Rift.
    Unless all of a sudden clerics loss their ability to heals, the implication is that they should be the best.

    Currently sentinel is supposed to be that,
    Says who?

    I don't see how it would harm PVP if sentinels were given the same level of tank heals as a chloro. (note: not even talking about their AOE heals or dps)
    So what you are saying chloros are the stronger ST healer? Because in pvp, the ST prowess of senti is only matched by one other, defiler.

    Hmm.


    Quote Originally Posted by dead2soon View Post
    I sort of agree. I love sent in PVP. It's great for dungeons. Raids not so much. Getting it to be useful in all 3 is the trick. In all fairness read the title of the post. We don't need it to be the best but we would like it good enough to be considered for the job.
    So because its not good in one aspect of the game, although is great in other aspects...its not good?

    Hmm.

    The title may say one thing, but the body implies something that hinders all aspects of the game.
    Last edited by Eughe; 07-25-2013 at 11:53 AM.

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    Rift Master Krumelur's Avatar
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    It looks like Purifier will be getting some pretty sweet stuff that could make hybrids with Sentinel as "viable" as Chloromancers, with some tweaking. Lets theorize about possible hybrids and what should change for that purpose, and why!

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muspel View Post
    One thought I had:

    Right now, Sentinels have a lot of trouble when forced to move, since the bulk of their tank healing comes from cast time abilities that only heal at the end of the cast. I think that changing Subtle Invocation into a channeled ability that heals a few times over 2-4 seconds would help to fix this, because they'd be able to instantly crank out some heals after moving, instead of needing a second or two.
    That is not an issue in my mind. You have healing breath and either healing flare or healing spray depending on spec, and touch the light or fullness of life for any real emergency. Also subtle/crucial invocation if you just need a heal sooner (either way procs faith rewarded).
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 07-25-2013 at 11:54 AM.

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    Rift Master Guyjax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zomtik View Post
    That's not true.

    The problem has been Trion's insistence that classes with 1 soul must be as versatile as the combination of 3 souls.

    Clerics should be the most versatile healers, being the ones you typically use. Chloros should have niche healing, good for some fights, not for most. Same for the new healing souls.

    Similarly, Warriors should be the most versatile tanks, the ones you should be using almost always. As it is now, Rogues and Clerics are better in most ways, except DPS. They should be niche tanks, good or even best for some fights (not necessarily the same fights, ideally), but not for most.

    Either the specialization issue needs to be addressed, or Clerics and Warriors need an uber-soul just like the other classes, and those 2 superflous souls need to be reworked into something not useless.

    And you're an idiot, honestly, if you think Sentinel has any place in any raid, ever. It doesn't. It's a 5-man spec and who cares about PvP.
    You sound like you just got off the WoW train. The holy trinity and the generic MMO formula of forcing classes to play one or two play styles has been changing. Sorry to break it to you but one class does not need to be the "best" or the most "versatile" in one area of the game, especially in a game like Rift. You're obviously not getting the whole point of Rift's soul/class system.
    Last edited by Guyjax; 07-25-2013 at 12:12 PM.
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