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Thread: Breaking -icar specs was a mistake. Bring them back.

  1. #76
    Plane Touched Sikarius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Side note. The balance of healing specs is going to get a lot more interesting when the warrior and rogue heal souls come out. If you think sentinel and chloro are redundant now...
    Yeah, looks like we'd all better get used to playing Defiler ;)
    Last edited by Sikarius; 06-21-2013 at 05:57 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I dunno what HK you ran but usually the only non-icar we had in there was a puri/sent or chloros for tank healing. Sure there were other specs at first but even as a casual guild we eventually realized it was wasting our time.
    Now you're rewriting history.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool of Society View Post
    Now you're rewriting history.
    If he is, it's because you did it first.

  4. #79
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    People talk like they were all in world-first-competing raid guilds. Anyone who actually is in such a guild must accept that their playstyle will be dictated by min/max concerns. That comes with the territory. But that's a relatively small minority of the population - and one that I doubt includes anyone posting here.

    My sent/ward healed HK fine. Better than fine, really. There were fights where I ran my PvP inquisicar spec with 32 justicar, and it performed fine as a hybrid raid healer with a brez. In ID (which we never cleared) there were fights where you really wanted a purifier tank healer - but that wasn't every fight, and you still had a lot of flexibility with your other healers.

    I love messing with specs, so I spent raid weeks as senticar, full warden, purisent, even wardicar. All of them could handle a raid role, and all of them had advantages in some areas. So anyone who says one of those specs was 'forced' or another was 'useless' - and wasn't in one of the first guilds to clear ID - I'm not buying what you are selling.
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  5. #80
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    People are still missing the point about why -icar was enjoyable.

    The thing that should be brought back is true Salvation. DoL, even without Mein of Honor (even the old +50% one) is too much for a "dps" slot.

    However, Salvation allowed the Cleric to actually feel like they were contributing to the raid. Our DPS was not, and never has been, #1 unless it was heavy, heavy AE back in Cab days. Inquisicar, Shamicar, hell even Cabicar, allowed us to "DPS" and still provide consistent heals to the raid.

    I forget the mini-boss in HK, but that was an excellent example of why people loved -icar. Not too much damage, easily covered by a healer or 2. Everyone is "supposed" to ST the machine boss and some people kite the adds. OR you could stick a tank in the back with a Cabicar and righteous mandate and just go to town. I could have struggled to be in the top 5 in a full DPS spec, but I seriously enjoyed AE'ing mobs and keeping a tank alive at the same time. Just as how so many people loved solo-healing 5mans as Shamicar/Inquisicar. Barely ever was DoL used for those situations.

    Is that OP? Maybe. It could probably be tuned down...but with DoL being unobtainable/less efficient, the steady, strong flow of Salvation should be an option. I'm not going to be #1 DPS as Cleric unless my raid-mates aren't good or aren't as geared, so let me feel like I'm adding to the group.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyasha View Post
    People are still missing the point about why -icar was enjoyable.

    The thing that should be brought back is true Salvation. DoL, even without Mein of Honor (even the old +50% one) is too much for a "dps" slot.

    However, Salvation allowed the Cleric to actually feel like they were contributing to the raid. Our DPS was not, and never has been, #1 unless it was heavy, heavy AE back in Cab days. Inquisicar, Shamicar, hell even Cabicar, allowed us to "DPS" and still provide consistent heals to the raid.

    I forget the mini-boss in HK, but that was an excellent example of why people loved -icar. Not too much damage, easily covered by a healer or 2. Everyone is "supposed" to ST the machine boss and some people kite the adds. OR you could stick a tank in the back with a Cabicar and righteous mandate and just go to town. I could have struggled to be in the top 5 in a full DPS spec, but I seriously enjoyed AE'ing mobs and keeping a tank alive at the same time. Just as how so many people loved solo-healing 5mans as Shamicar/Inquisicar. Barely ever was DoL used for those situations.

    Is that OP? Maybe. It could probably be tuned down...but with DoL being unobtainable/less efficient, the steady, strong flow of Salvation should be an option. I'm not going to be #1 DPS as Cleric unless my raid-mates aren't good or aren't as geared, so let me feel like I'm adding to the group.
    absolutely right!
    I loved to play Inquicar. I was good in this spec and i loved it to be a real part of the raid....
    Now.... it sucks!
    What is a Cleric? nothing! No DPS, only Heal ...maybe 2-3 in a Raid (1 defiler, 1 puri, 1 warden, 0 dps!!)

    Itīs like Trion hates Clerics! All Classes gets Updates to make more DPS or something... whatīs about the clerics? nothing!

    The -car Specs were the only ones who brought a bid fun in a clerics game-life and gave a little reason not to rerole.

    Trion! Are u wondering, why most of the guilds are searching for clerics?

    Bcause, nobody wants to play a cleric, bcause it makes no fun to be the unloved stepdoughter in this game.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNM View Post
    If he is, it's because you did it first.
    Who raided with only icars then? I know my guild didn't and I know other guilds on my server that were doing HK didn't. I know the people were going through HK in the early days when the club of people who completed HK was small that few used more then two icar.

    He's claiming icar specs were so overpowered that there was no reason to bring any other healer and as such no no one did. That's just bullocks..
    Last edited by Tool of Society; 06-23-2013 at 04:03 AM.

  8. #83
    MNM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool of Society View Post
    Who raided with only icars then? I know my guild didn't and I know other guilds on my server that were doing HK didn't. I know the people were going through HK in the early days when the club of people who completed HK was small that few used more then two icar.

    He's claiming icar specs were so overpowered that there was no reason to bring any other healer and as such no no one did. That's just bullocks..
    He said there was no reason to bring any other specs aside from your chloros and the occasional puri.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyasha View Post
    The thing that should be brought back is true Salvation. DoL, even without Mein of Honor (even the old +50% one) is too much for a "dps" slot.

    /this

    The thing that was broken with -iacr was DoL.

    All that was really needed was to bring down the heal of DoL and give it a threat bonus. It's changed from an OP heal to an AoE threat tool and most of the problems are solved.
    Last edited by asshead; 06-26-2013 at 09:06 PM.

  10. #85
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    Personally I miss my inquisicar, senticar, and cabicar specs. So much fun.

    The only thing i really enjoy playing on my cleric now is mainly tank but defiler is kinda fun.
    Last edited by Hodor; 06-27-2013 at 11:56 PM.

  11. #86
    General of Telara
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    did they even say why they nerfed icar builds? Why kill something that a lot of people enjoyed?

  12. #87
    Iri
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasmgp View Post
    did they even say why they nerfed icar builds? Why kill something that a lot of people enjoyed?
    They nerfed almost all hybrid builds, and -icar they specifically wanted to go away because it was a healing spec based on points in a tank soul, which would make no sense given the new soul gifts introduced in 1.11.

    I have to say that while I am sad that -icar went away, it's not because cleric has no replacement, it's because the replacement stinks at doing what -icars did.

    What I miss about senticar was the role flexibility. I was our main senticar throughout ID, and I loved that I could go into a fight prepared to fill any healing role necessary. Brezzes were just a bonus... for me, the big thing was that I could lay down heavy group burst healing, steady group heals, or take over or help out with tank healing, all in the same fight. Senticar was a build that could single-handedly negate moments of stupidity or bad RNG, and for me that was why it was awesome. Inquisicar brought a similar type of flexibility, but it dropped the ability to tank heal and some of the power of the group heals in exchange for the ability to pull solid dps when not healing.

    The problem is that warden is supposed to be the replacement. Looking at the tools it brings, it's supposed to be able to drop huge burst group healing, offer decent sustained group healing, help out or temporarily cover tank healing, and if not engaged in any of those things it should be able to bring decent dps with some group healing from Geyser. The problem is that it sucks at everything except big burst ae heals. If warden could actually do what it looks like it should be able to do, we'd have something equivalent to -icar. But sadly, that ain't the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  13. #88
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    I just came back yesterday after a year and a half layoff myself. While I will miss my Shamicar/Inquisicar specs as well, having a severe case of self diagnosed ADD, I do look forward to researching/parsing new viable specs also. While sometimes change can be frustrating and disappointing, I do yearn for the constant theorycrafting that disappears once you have your viable specs cemented in place.

    Naturally, all of this will come after I hit 60 though, 10 levels to grind out now.

    Now to find a new guild and server, as Deepstrike is LONG gone apparently.
    Last edited by Guerrero; 06-28-2013 at 06:12 PM.

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  14. #89
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    They deserved to die.
    Last edited by Balferest; 06-29-2013 at 07:58 AM.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dudi View Post
    absolutely right!
    I loved to play Inquicar. I was good in this spec and i loved it to be a real part of the raid....
    Now.... it sucks!
    What is a Cleric? nothing! No DPS, only Heal ...maybe 2-3 in a Raid (1 defiler, 1 puri, 1 warden, 0 dps!!)

    Itīs like Trion hates Clerics! All Classes gets Updates to make more DPS or something... whatīs about the clerics? nothing!

    The -car Specs were the only ones who brought a bid fun in a clerics game-life and gave a little reason not to rerole.

    Trion! Are u wondering, why most of the guilds are searching for clerics?

    Bcause, nobody wants to play a cleric, bcause it makes no fun to be the unloved stepdoughter in this game.
    Shaman and Inq are the DPS specs.

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