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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Inquisitor DPS

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    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Default Inquisitor DPS

    Due to the constant buffing of other callings, we have once again fallen behind with Range DPS. If Pyro/Warlock/Tempest are going to be brought down, then disregard this post. However if they are more in line of what the range target is, then i propose the following to buff Inquisitor:

    Suggestion 1:

    Add a new buff at 58 points or simply add the following to Spiritual Scrutiny:

    Reduces the Global Cooldown of the Cleric's instant cast damaging abilities by 0.5s.

    Benefits:

    This suggestion will make the following abilities 1s GCD (Depending on spec):

    Sanction Heretic
    Scourge
    Vex
    Aggressive Renewal
    Dark Water (Cabalist)
    Curse of Discord (Cabalist)
    Curse of Solitude (Cabalist)
    Marrow Harvest (Defiler)

    Bolt of Judgment is not listed because it is considered a cast time ability, and this will not make it have 1s GCD.

    Note: Most the abilities listed above are used once per 15s (Marrow Harvest is 6s, Aggressive renewal 45s), therefore this will not be a huge buff to our DPS, it will be a slight and needed buff.

    Suggestion 2:

    What suggestion 1 lacks would be the much needed reduced cast time on Bolt of Retribution from Burning Purpose, currently we do not benefit from that other than reducing ability lag caused by animation. So perhaps reducing the GCD of only instant damaging abilities might not be enough, and we would need to reduce the GCD of all abilities just like Pyro.

    However the problem that would occur would be Bolt of Judgment might overshadow Bolt of Retribution that way, therefore if suggestion 2 was implemented then Bolt of Judgment needs a nerf. 15% less DPS than Bolt of Retribution would be a fair movement reduction.

    If Bolt of Retribution: 9326/1.5s = 6217.3
    Bolt of Judgment would be: 5284.7
    Last edited by Byona; 04-30-2013 at 08:08 AM.
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    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Due to the constant buffing of other callings, we have once again fallen behind with Range DPS. If Pyro/Warlock/Tempest are going to be brought down, then disregard this post. However if they are more in line of what the range target is, then i propose the following to buff Inquisitor:
    Well, after reading this post - you have successfully distracted me from eating my mac 'n cheese that i just finished cooking! Time to break stuff down - this is more so feedback rather criticism of what you've posted!


    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Suggestion 1:

    Add a new buff at 58 points or simply add the following to Spiritual Scrutiny:

    Reduces the Global Cooldown of the Cleric's instant cast damaging abilities by 0.5s.

    Benefits:

    This suggestion will make the following abilities 1s GCD (Depending on spec):

    Sanction Heretic
    Scourge
    Vex
    Aggressive Renewal
    Dark Water (Cabalist)
    Curse of Discord (Cabalist)
    Curse of Solitude (Cabalist)
    Marrow Harvest (Defiler)

    Bolt of Judgment is not listed because it is considered a cast time ability, and this will not make it have 1s GCD.

    Note: Most the abilities listed above are used once per 15s (Marrow Harvest is 6s, Aggressive renewal 45s), therefore this will not be a huge buff to our DPS, it will be a slight and needed buff.
    The buff that you describe would actually be viable at 54 points rather 58 points. I would be for it either way wherever it might end up at. It definitely has no place in the actual tree of inquisitor, as that would cause quite the interesting hybridization of the spec to the other souls. Anyhow...

    Reducing the GCD of the clerics instant cast damaging abilities would also, by how you describe, would decrease the GCD of shaman, druid and justicar damage. As they are all 'instant cast' as well. It would need to be limited to the lines of "Reduces the global cooldown by 0.5 seconds for magical instant cast abilities." This would also possibly cause an issue on shaman and justicar magical melee GCD's. Bolt'n'jolt re-invented, anyone?

    SH, Scg, Vex, AR, DW, CoD/CoS, MH (you forgot siphon vitality) are all general to the instant cast abilities - I'd like to see such a thing happen. But since we are on the near same subject, not quite the same, but near the same, reduce all of the two second cast times on all of the cleric souls to 1.5 seconds. That way this general ideas would have a slightly larger variety for players - not just raiders and min-maxers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Suggestion 2:

    What suggestion 1 lacks would be the much needed reduced cast time on Bolt of Retribution from Burning Purpose, currently we do not benefit from that other than reducing ability lag caused by animation. So perhaps reducing the GCD of only instant damaging abilities might not be enough, and we would need to reduce the GCD of all abilities just like Pyro.

    However the problem that would occur would be Bolt of Judgment might overshadow Bolt of Retribution that way, therefore if suggestion 2 was implemented then Bolt of Judgment needs a nerf. 15% less DPS than Bolt of Retribution would be a fair movement reduction.

    If Bolt of Retribution: 9326/1.5s = 6217.3
    Bolt of Judgment would be: 5284.7
    Yes, that could happen - however a tweak or two could occur in the inquisitor tree. Cunning analysis. Why not just change the 2/2 to "Your single target spells ignore 30% of the targets resistance. Casting Bolt of Retribution will ignore an additional 15%." That would potentially solve the BoJ vs BoR issues. The 1/2 on C.A. would not include the BoR bonus.

    I'm moot on this second suggestion for the most part, not much of it is ringing with me.
    --BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by bctrainers View Post
    The buff that you describe would actually be viable at 54 points rather 58 points. I would be for it either way wherever it might end up at. It definitely has no place in the actual tree of inquisitor, as that would cause quite the interesting hybridization of the spec to the other souls. Anyhow...

    Reducing the GCD of the clerics instant cast damaging abilities would also, by how you describe, would decrease the GCD of shaman, druid and justicar damage. As they are all 'instant cast' as well. It would need to be limited to the lines of "Reduces the global cooldown by 0.5 seconds for magical instant cast abilities." This would also possibly cause an issue on shaman and justicar magical melee GCD's. Bolt'n'jolt re-invented, anyone?
    The reason i put it high up in the tree at 58 inquisitor means the issues you are describing will not exist.

    But you are right making it work on instant cast spells would be a better implementation. Only due to 1 combination 61inq/11defiler/4druid for Combined Effort, that would suck, just like BnJ did

    Shaman and Justicar reference however is irrelevant because there is nothing there that would be worth specing into

    Quote Originally Posted by bctrainers View Post
    I'm moot on this second suggestion for the most part, not much of it is ringing with me.
    Whats wrong with it? its very much needed so we can benefit from Burning Purpose. Its already implemented on Pyros, they have 1.5s cast time but 1s gcd.
    Last edited by Byona; 04-30-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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    I still think the best way to go about buffing Inq is to keep any changes simple.. rather then overhauling the GCD. Not that i think Byona's suggestions are bad, but it may be pushing something that would create further problems.

    Ill stand by some of the suggestions ive posted before but clarify them some:

    1: Bump up the damage of the SH dot by about double its initial hit from 729 to say... 1400 over 15s. This keeps it below vex/scourge but reinvigorates it as a key component of Inquis.. not just for LDC but for damage as well.

    2: Bump up the damage of SoC talent from 10/20/30 to 10/25/50. SoC was always intended to be an important component to Inq and its rotations, and it needs a bump. You could also make the choice to bump up the damage more significantly... and increase the dot time to spread out the damage and avoid the possibility of BoD spam.

    2b: Instead of bumping up its damage... allow it to be affected by mental resilience.

    3: Bump up the damage of CoO significantly to allow Inq to once again have usefull AoE DPS outside of SD.

    4: Zealotry change. Adjust to 5 stacks for a 50/40/30/10 drop. For where it is in the tree... it should be a bit stronger.

    5: Finally... i would like to ask if it would be possible to allow all the Inquisitor Armors to stack. This is less a DPS bump (although we would gain 5% crit) and more something i think would just be a nice little gift I mean... once you have Armor of Awakening.. the others fall by the wayside entirely. And tbh.. its not like your causing problems because AoA is so high in the tree. The other 2 stacking really shouldnt cause many problems at all since if your using Inq as a side spec for damage you wont waste a point on Treachery.

    More could be made but i think these are some of the key ones ive considered.....
    Last edited by No_Exit; 04-30-2013 at 04:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    I still think the best way to go about buffing Inq is to keep any changes simple.. rather then overhauling the GCD. Not that i think Byona's suggestions are bad, but it may be pushing something that would create further problems.
    The reason i am advocating 1s gcd and why i think its the best way, is because we need to benefit from Burning Puropse, it is sickening seeing how many GCDs are wasted due to animation bug while spamming BoR.

    Another reason is 1.5s to apply dots is quite boring, i want to put them up and get it over with asap so i can go back to DPSing, 1s gcd would help.

    1s GCD would also solve your first suggestion which is Sanction Heretic, SH value would be higher once its 1s GCD therefore it would not need a bumb.

    Overall, i would prefer 1s GCD for Inquisitor over any other suggestion. If the DPS gain was not enough, then other ideas such as the ones you posted would be very welcome as well.
    Last edited by Byona; 04-30-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    The reason i am advocating 1s gcd and why i think its the best way, is because we need to benefit from Burning Puropse, it is sickening seeing how many GCDs are wasted due to animation bug while spamming BoR.

    Another reason is 1.5s to apply dots is quite boring, i want to put them up and get it over with asap so i can go back to DPSing, 1s gcd would help. Also it would be a nice addition for PvP to tab target and put dot

    1s GCD would also solve your first suggestion which is Sanction Heretic, SH value would be higher once its 1s GCD therefore it would not need a bumb.

    Overall, i would prefer 1s GCD for Inquisitor over any other suggestion. If the DPS gain was not enough, then other ideas such as the ones you posted would be very welcome as well.
    Oh dont get me wrong.... id LOVE the change you suggested. But i have concerns about if it would be possible without creating a other issues. Messing with a GCD is always a questionable affair imo. Hence why i posted up some other alternative suggestions.

    PS: Bluelightt.. just ignore bishopx. Hes no better then tro44 and ive already reported his post as "trolling". I suggest you do the same.
    Last edited by No_Exit; 04-30-2013 at 04:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    Oh dont get me wrong.... id LOVE the change you suggested. But i have concerns about if it would be possible without creating a other issues. Messing with a GCD is always a questionable affair imo. Hence why i posted up some other alternative suggestions.

    PS: Bluelightt.. just ignore bishopx. Hes no better then tro44 and ive already reported his post as "trolling". I suggest you do the same.
    Well seeing how we really want this to go through, we should think ahead of possible issues this could bring and solve them to make the idea more appealing to the Devs.

    Bctrainers brought a good point about making it reduce damaging spells, so that we dont have a new Bolt n Jolt with Combined Effort.

    I personally cannot see any other downside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Well seeing how we really want this to go through, we should think ahead of possible issues this could bring and solve them to make the idea more appealing to the Devs.

    Bctrainers brought a good point about making it reduce damaging spells, so that we dont have a new Bolt n Jolt with Combined Effort.

    I personally cannot see any other downside.
    Well part of the problem is i dont know enough about how they would go about incorporating such changes. And as such im not sure of the problems that could arise. For example... would it even be possible to pick and choose with such accuracy what it will and wont affect?

    I probably should of clarified that im not shooting down your suggestions one bit, but being that i figure the easiest way is the best way when it comes to getting Trion to be accepting of changes and able to incorporate them, i wanted to provide some simple damage or number change options that would not create a possible ripple effect that a GCD change could cause.

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    buffs plz!!1!
    Nope.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Pokesi's Avatar
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    Very good suggestions good enough to make me actually log onto my account and post ^^

    I really like implementing 1sec GCD for spells and, and making all the armor's stack since they are pretty useless there anyways when you have AoA.
    Real question I had tho is if this were to happen has anyone done any math how useful cabalist dot's and marrow harvest would be.
    Can't log onto game right now but if my memory and math skills don't completely fail me, they would still be pretty useless.Then again I guess the goal was to buff up Inq not defi and caba dots, nor do I really want inq to become dot juggler.

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    please buff the best spec because I use it and I use it because it is the best spec

    this is counter productive to the overall health of the class and the community.
    think more of ways to improve lesser used trees and less on how to make the dominant ones more dominant.
    buffing other souls to be more effective may cause more viable options and also raise our overall effectiveness as a class.
    Last edited by BishopX; 04-30-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    please buff the best spec because I use it and I use it because it is the best spec

    this is counter productive to the overall health of the class and the community.
    think more of ways to improve lesser used trees and less on how to make the dominant ones more dominant.
    buffing other souls to be more effective may cause more viable options and also raise our overall effectiveness as a class.
    This is strictly based on Range DPS balance, also only PvE players are concerned about Parses and DPS so you do not understand the situation, as example when you say "The best spec" you are making no sense.

    Also, read the first line in the OP.
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    Quote Originally Posted by No_Exit View Post
    Well part of the problem is i dont know enough about how they would go about incorporating such changes. And as such im not sure of the problems that could arise. For example... would it even be possible to pick and choose with such accuracy what it will and wont affect?

    I probably should of clarified that im not shooting down your suggestions one bit, but being that i figure the easiest way is the best way when it comes to getting Trion to be accepting of changes and able to incorporate them, i wanted to provide some simple damage or number change options that would not create a possible ripple effect that a GCD change could cause.
    Yes i do believe it is possible to be specific.

    Example how to implement (Suggestion 1):

    Agent of Affliction: increases damage done to Delayed and damage over time abilities.

    Adding something similar to this at 58 points , reduces the GCD of delayed and damage over time abilities by 0.5s, would take care of my (Suggestion 1).


    Example how to implement (Suggestion 2):

    Spark: Reduces the global cooldown of your fire spells to 1 second.

    Something like that could be done for Inquisitor: Reduces the global cooldown of your Life and Death spells to 1 second.

    In addition to that nerf Bolt of Judgment, and there you have it.
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    I really, really like the idea just making the 1 second GCD a thing all DPS has. I was so hopeful that the Storm Legion revamps would make a one-second GCD universal. Spells with cast times should be limited by their cast times, and the GCD should be used to throttle instant abilities, and nothing more. Instead, half the DPS specs have a 1-second GCD with a couple off-GCDs to use in there, while the other half feel like they play at the speed of molasses.

    But we can't change horses mid-stream. Inquisitor, and the cleric calling as a whole, was balanced around having a 1.5 second GCD. To apply as dramatic a change, even in as limited a scope as you suggest, would mean an awful lot of rebalancing behind the scenes.

    The first thing to worry about is the 50% DPS increase in all instant abilities in other souls. Eruption of Life and Combined Effort are the obvious ones; also, Marrow Harvest suddenly becomes much better; a 58 Inq/18 Cab noticeably increases Inq's 2-8 target damage; and maybe Massive Blow or Lightning Hammer would find their way into a spec.

    More important is what it does to Inquisitor. Its four dots can be applied in two-thirds of the time, which means something like Scourge goes from doing about the same DPS per use as a big-hitter like Nysyr's (albiet not as concentrated) to significantly more. I mean, obviously that extra half-second is only as good as what you can fill it with, but that's still a lot of damage for one second of time investment, and even more so when you consider that it can be cast on the move, and can't be interrupted. Assuming one target, you are basically getting five extra BoRs a minute, which is something like another thousand DPS. Given multiple targets, however, "tab-Scourge-Vex; tab-Scourge-Vex" becomes quite rewarding. Doing that is already better than Circle of Oblivion on its best day, but being able to do that in two-thirds of the time just gives Inq more AoE than a single-target soul should have.

    Really, the best adjustment to Inquisitor is also the safest: tweak the numbers of individual abilities, and not fundemental mechanics. It functions pretty smoothly as it is. If they were to implement the GCD idea, the best way would be to call out which abilities it affects to keep crazy hybrids from popping up. "Reduces the GCD caused by Vex, Scourge, and Sanction Heretic by 0.5 seconds," for example. But even then, I wouldn't advocate for this particular change. Inq is already one of the most front-loaded specs in the game. Reducing its set-up time is nothing but trouble.

    As to Burning Purpose: I hate the fact that this (or any) buff affects some builds so well, and others so poorly. I think the best way to change that is to well, change it. "Reduces the casttime, auttoattack delay, and GCD by 7% on all party or raid members". That seems a lot easier and more consistent than asking "Which classes do how much autoattack damage?" and "How many souls use spells with a casting time longer than or equal to their GCD?" Just my two cents.
    Last edited by Kolfinna; 04-30-2013 at 07:19 PM.

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