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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Inquisitor DPS

  1. #46
    Telaran
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    Default Fanaticism Change

    I suggested this in another thread, but I would like to see something like warden and sent have reducing the cd Ttl and Tidal surge...make Bolt of Retribution reduce the cd of fanaticism to make it more useful other than an insta-BoD followed by Nysyr's. That way, we can benefit from the extra dmg offered by fanaticism more frequently

  2. #47
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    Default Fanaticism Change

    I suggested this in another thread, but I would like to see something like warden and sent have reducing the cd Ttl and Tidal surge...make Bolt of Retribution reduce the cd of fanaticism to make it more useful other than an insta-BoD followed by Nysyr's. That way, we can benefit from the extra dmg offered by fanaticism more frequently

  3. #48
    Rift Chaser Amariah's Avatar
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    It's a good thing you need 17 clerics for Crucia or I dam near wouldn't even have a raid spot in FT.

    Maybe that's why trion borked Crucia's loot tables to drop sooo many Cleric relics, to make up for our chit dps?

    If I had any energy I'd make one of those Bill & Ted memes right now.... What if I told you......?????

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amariah View Post
    It's a good thing you need 17 clerics for Crucia or I dam near wouldn't even have a raid spot in FT.

    Maybe that's why trion borked Crucia's loot tables to drop sooo many Cleric relics, to make up for our chit dps?

    If I had any energy I'd make one of those Bill & Ted memes right now.... What if I told you......?????
    Inquisitor DPS-3ub0ak-1-.jpg

    What if Ted is the One and Bill is the Zero?

    Whoah...
    Last edited by Pork Star; 05-08-2013 at 09:59 AM.

  5. #50
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    Something needs to be done. I parsed with a Pyro with far less gear than me and he was beating me by 1.5-2k. I then asked him to do the most faceroll rotation he could think of and he still kept pace with me.

    For the record, I have all raid gear, best runes, CQ trinket and BiS essences for my source machine. Is 11.5ish k what most Inqs are getting on the test dummies over a 4 min+ parse?

  6. #51
    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskatol View Post
    Something needs to be done. I parsed with a Pyro with far less gear than me and he was beating me by 1.5-2k. I then asked him to do the most faceroll rotation he could think of and he still kept pace with me.

    For the record, I have all raid gear, best runes, CQ trinket and BiS essences for my source machine. Is 11.5ish k what most Inqs are getting on the test dummies over a 4 min+ parse?
    I'm in what sounds to be pretty similar gear, so I gave it a shot. Without the extra 5% from Rage Blight or any silliness like damage procs, I did about 12.8k over the four minutes. I did a second parse in which I improved to about 13.4k. But as pyromancers are wont to do, one showed up halfway into my parse and beat me by 1-1.5k DPS on top of my improvments.

    I know I'm not the best Inquisitor in the world, and I certainly don't have the best gear. Heck, I'm still using some Spell Crit items. But the problem with dummy parses is that being in a raid affects everyone differently. Pyros benefit from Burning Purpose on their fireballs, which is hundreds of extra DPS. Inquisitors get to use Rage Blight, which is hundreds of extra DPS. I'm not saying we're equal, but it's possibly not as bad as it appears. Or perhaps it's worse.

    EDIT: Oh, right, stats. 5269 SP, 946 CP, 1926 SC
    Last edited by Kolfinna; 05-09-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolfinna View Post
    I'm in what sounds to be pretty similar gear, so I gave it a shot. Without the extra 5% from Rage Blight or any silliness like damage procs, I did about 12.8k over the four minutes. I did a second parse in which I improved to about 13.4k. But as pyromancers are wont to do, one showed up halfway into my parse and beat me by 1-1.5k DPS on top of my improvments.

    I know I'm not the best Inquisitor in the world, and I certainly don't have the best gear. Heck, I'm still using some Spell Crit items. But the problem with dummy parses is that being in a raid affects everyone differently. Pyros benefit from Burning Purpose on their fireballs, which is hundreds of extra DPS. Inquisitors get to use Rage Blight, which is hundreds of extra DPS. I'm not saying we're equal, but it's possibly not as bad as it appears. Or perhaps it's worse.

    EDIT: Oh, right, stats. 5269 SP, 946 CP, 1926 SC
    My stats with PA powerstone on is 5274 SP, 891 CP, 1877 SC. I have no idea how you are pulling the numbers you are doing. I've tried different CD rotations from the standard block, going back to the old school Warden variant and testing it with different CD blocks. Nothing I do gets me over 12k consistently and I usually fall to high to mid 11's over a 4 min parse.

    So what's your secret?

  8. #53
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Why you no buff Inquisitor or nerf Pyro yet?! disappoint

    I personally prefer the latter (Because Pyro is even higher than our Melee) but its up to you, either one of those needs to be done.
    Last edited by Byona; 05-10-2013 at 09:52 PM.
    See you all in Wildstar!

  9. #54
    Plane Walker Kolfinna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskatol View Post
    So what's your secret?
    Hmm. Well, I favor opening my parses with a Bolt of Depravity, so that could be a few extra DPS there. I usually precast it as the tank's pulling, so I figure it's a fair simulation of reality.

    Recast dots when they're down, favoring "too late" over "too soon". My napkin math says that clipping the last tick of Scourge costs you 200 DPS, but waiting an extra cast for it to finish only costs you about 90 DPS. There's a whole lot of handwaving to come up with those numbers, but basically: let the spells finish.

    My general priority is Scourge, Vex, Unified BoD, Sanction Heretic. I don't like "rotations", so I keep all that stuff up on kalerts so I can plan a couple spells ahead. Sometimes everything lines up, but given lag and casttimes and bugs, it's best just to be flexible.

    Don't clip Sanction when you're Radical Coalescencing. There's nothing wrong with a SH>BoR>BoJ>Scourge macro, but make sure you can hardcast BoR, too.

    Also with Radical Coalescence: it's worth waiting around the extra fifteen or twenty seconds to use Nysyr's, and not just hitting it as soon as it's up.

    Last note on Radical: make sure you time it so you refresh all your dots during that 15 second damage boost. It shouldn't be an issue, but again, a slight bit of lag might cost you 10% damage on one of your hardest hitting spells if you do it wrong.

    I know I had a couple bugged Unified Theorys when I was parsing: some with the improved casttime, and some without. You just have to be ready for them. It's a rare occurrence (read: bug), but when you do get a double Unified, try to stick some filler between the BoDs so Symbol of Corruption can get a couple ticks in.

    Always always always precede Nysyr's with a Fanaticised something (preferably BoD). That's an extra 30% crit chance for all four ticks. It's a rare thing to want to use Fanaticism early, and that time is never on a dummy parse.

    Use ability queues. Let's pretend a player has a 75ms ping. I have no idea how "casting a spell" data is sent to the server, but I like to pretend that if you use an ability every 1.575 seconds instead of every 1.5 seconds, you lose about 5% of your DPS.

    Have full health. 10% Wisdom is slightly more damage than 5% damage. If there's raid damage, stand in melee so your Shroud does damage, too. Aggressive Renewal isn't better that Bolt of Judgment. Never use Circle of Oblivion; just cast Scourge and Vex on everything between Soul Drains. Judicial Privilege is an amazing self-heal, not just a run speed buff.

    Hmm. That's everything I can think of that might not be immediately obvious. Everything else is just tightening up the gaps, as far as my knowledge is concerned.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolfinna View Post
    Hmm. Well, I favor opening my parses with a Bolt of Depravity, so that could be a few extra DPS there. I usually precast it as the tank's pulling, so I figure it's a fair simulation of reality.

    Recast dots when they're down, favoring "too late" over "too soon". My napkin math says that clipping the last tick of Scourge costs you 200 DPS, but waiting an extra cast for it to finish only costs you about 90 DPS. There's a whole lot of handwaving to come up with those numbers, but basically: let the spells finish.

    My general priority is Scourge, Vex, Unified BoD, Sanction Heretic. I don't like "rotations", so I keep all that stuff up on kalerts so I can plan a couple spells ahead. Sometimes everything lines up, but given lag and casttimes and bugs, it's best just to be flexible.

    Don't clip Sanction when you're Radical Coalescencing. There's nothing wrong with a SH>BoR>BoJ>Scourge macro, but make sure you can hardcast BoR, too.

    Also with Radical Coalescence: it's worth waiting around the extra fifteen or twenty seconds to use Nysyr's, and not just hitting it as soon as it's up.

    Last note on Radical: make sure you time it so you refresh all your dots during that 15 second damage boost. It shouldn't be an issue, but again, a slight bit of lag might cost you 10% damage on one of your hardest hitting spells if you do it wrong.

    I know I had a couple bugged Unified Theorys when I was parsing: some with the improved casttime, and some without. You just have to be ready for them. It's a rare occurrence (read: bug), but when you do get a double Unified, try to stick some filler between the BoDs so Symbol of Corruption can get a couple ticks in.

    Always always always precede Nysyr's with a Fanaticised something (preferably BoD). That's an extra 30% crit chance for all four ticks. It's a rare thing to want to use Fanaticism early, and that time is never on a dummy parse.

    Use ability queues. Let's pretend a player has a 75ms ping. I have no idea how "casting a spell" data is sent to the server, but I like to pretend that if you use an ability every 1.575 seconds instead of every 1.5 seconds, you lose about 5% of your DPS.

    Have full health. 10% Wisdom is slightly more damage than 5% damage. If there's raid damage, stand in melee so your Shroud does damage, too. Aggressive Renewal isn't better that Bolt of Judgment. Never use Circle of Oblivion; just cast Scourge and Vex on everything between Soul Drains. Judicial Privilege is an amazing self-heal, not just a run speed buff.

    Hmm. That's everything I can think of that might not be immediately obvious. Everything else is just tightening up the gaps, as far as my knowledge is concerned.
    What gets me is that I already do 95% of this and tell Inqs to do the same.

    The one difference is that I'm "super lazy" and cash SH before Scourge. Yes I know that means 1.5 s less uptime for scourge on the FIRST application, but it also ensures that it falls off completely and is never clipped. Something tells me that swapping scourge and SH (I've tried) isn't going to net me 1-1.5k more DPS.

    I dunno about this bugged unified theory tho.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskatol View Post
    Something needs to be done. I parsed with a Pyro with far less gear than me and he was beating me by 1.5-2k. I then asked him to do the most faceroll rotation he could think of and he still kept pace with me.

    For the record, I have all raid gear, best runes, CQ trinket and BiS essences for my source machine. Is 11.5ish k what most Inqs are getting on the test dummies over a 4 min+ parse?
    Here's my beef: dps between fanaticism+bod+nysyr's is abysmal. If you use a parser like ACT and can plot a dps vs time line graph, you will see a steady decline in dps that jumps up sharply when Nysyr's is used and then declines steadily until it is available again.

    So what we really need is stronger dps between Nysyr cds in order to maintain steady dps output. DoTs+BoR and the occasional BoD just isn't cutting it

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by epock21 View Post
    Here's my beef: dps between fanaticism+bod+nysyr's is abysmal. If you use a parser like ACT and can plot a dps vs time line graph, you will see a steady decline in dps that jumps up sharply when Nysyr's is used and then declines steadily until it is available again.

    So what we really need is stronger dps between Nysyr cds in order to maintain steady dps output. DoTs+BoR and the occasional BoD just isn't cutting it
    Nysyr's is a pain for a lot of reasons. They are also letting pyro's move during their primary channeled ability (can't remember name atm), but we still have to stand still and are extremely prone to interruption by mechanics. Also, the fact that Pyro is mobile with no damage loss to Fireball while we are mobile by switching to a lower DPS ability (Bolt of Judgment vs Bolt of Radiance).

    So, remove the "move while channeling" from Pyro and make the instant-fireball buff reduce the damage by a similar amount. Casting fireball should do more damage than one being tossed out with no cast time (concentration factor??).

    That's the "nerf" to pyro. Secondly, we need the DoT damage on BoD and SH increased, and I honestly think they should make Harsh Discipline worth casting in the rotation similar to Aggressive Renewal and that it should work the same way as Aggressive Renewal (i.e. not a channel, but an over-time ability). So increase damage (maybe slight boost to healing) by 25-50% on HD.

  13. #58
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    Nerfs to pyro, while justified, are not the root problem. The root problem is that other range specs are in line with melee specs, more or less, and inquis continues to lag behind considerably. Across the board we need boosts to everything but Nysyr's imo. More powerful DoTs so that dps doesn't continuously drop during a normal rotation and/or gcd reductions. There have been plenty of GOOD, viable suggestions in this thread and others how to close the gap, but nothing, as far ad we can tell, is striking a chord.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by epock21 View Post
    Here's my beef: dps between fanaticism+bod+nysyr's is abysmal. If you use a parser like ACT and can plot a dps vs time line graph, you will see a steady decline in dps that jumps up sharply when Nysyr's is used and then declines steadily until it is available again.

    So what we really need is stronger dps between Nysyr cds in order to maintain steady dps output. DoTs+BoR and the occasional BoD just isn't cutting it
    You know what's even better? It used to be even worse. Nysyr's was nerfed and scourge was buffed (along with vex stacking) to try and "even out" our DPS. I'd say that we are just as bursty, maybe even more, than a Pyro.

    What's funny is that Shaman is the same way too. I start self-buffed at around 20k for the opening 5-8 GCDs, fall down to ~14k then go back up to high 14k every time my RotN and DF CD block is back up, averaging around 14.3-14.5k overall. It's not as bad as Inq, but Clerics are definitely the burst PvE DPS class >.>.

    As far as Inq numbers are concerned, I don't see any other replies agreeing that a well-geared inq should be hitting mid 12k-13k self-buffed before factoring in Rage blight. I'm guessing that guy got a couple parses with a high crit rate or maybe had buffs on that he didn't know about?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskatol View Post
    As far as Inq numbers are concerned, I don't see any other replies agreeing that a well-geared inq should be hitting mid 12k-13k self-buffed before factoring in Rage blight. I'm guessing that guy got a couple parses with a high crit rate or maybe had buffs on that he didn't know about?
    My cleric is my alt, but I just did a 4:10ish parse on it at 5360 SP, 1828 SC, and 389 CP. I did two parses where I got 11.7k and 11.9k at normal-ish crit RNG (no melee, no proc DPS). So it's quite possible that better geared clerics than me are hitting 13k+. For reference, I generally do high 13k to low 14k in my Shaman--of course, crit power scales way better for Shaman than Inquis.

    Also, no other ranged specs besides Pyro (and to a lesser extent Warlock) are competing with melee ST. I haven't seen a 61 MM, 61 RNG, or 61 Tempest anywhere close to the top of parses. I guess most of them are too busy playing NB/Sin or RB that they don't really complain about mages.

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