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Thread: Cleric Healing souls fun to play?

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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Default Cleric Healing souls fun to play?

    This is an OPINION thread, please don't sweat balance vs other classes but only focus on internal to Cleric's themselves. The other classes can think how to make their own classes fun in their own thread.

    Not been feeling the healing souls for a while now. They just don't seem FUN to play.

    Sentinel feels OK to me but warden and puri not so much. It got me thinking what would I do to replace the mechanics that would make the souls more entertaining to play.

    Warden
    The more I think about it, the more I really detest the current incarnation of Warden. I much preferred the rolling hots as a mechanic. Anymore hots are just sad jokes. I think it would be more fun to scrap the AOE healing bit entirely and move back to just 5 man groups with it. Make the HoT's the core of the soul again but with some changes.
    Each HoT should count as a seperate entity, not as a stack (in the case of soothing streams) but still maintaining a maximum cap of how many can be active at once. Each cast would replace a previous casts timer. If two Wardens got on someone and started healing, the cap of (random number inserted here) 6 wouldn't change though each seperate stack could be replaced\refreshed by each cast.

    Ideally it should topend somewhere around 6 or so seperate HoT's of various types being able to be maintained on an individual before the starting one wears off with 3 seconds left for other activities at top end output. HoT's should be along the same lines as sents small heal, medium heal, big heal, and massive heal with associated mana costs and cast times similiar to sentinels. In concept, 6 instant HoT's could be stacked, while moving, (along the lines of 6 healing breaths over 12 seconds.) The next cast of whatever heal would replace the first stack cast even if time remains on it.

    Purifier
    Methinks, scrap the healing aspect of it and just leave it the shielding. No ability to recover HP inside the soul itself. Make the existing shields stack, no more symbol of sun OR symbol of flame, but both. Hard casting small, med, large shields that overwrite only themselves. You'd be able to stack in the same fashion as the above warden concept, same method of overwriting shields etc.
    Probably want to put the shields onto much smaller timers to keep too many from stacking up and reduce the strength of them in line with say healing breath for the instants.


    In the end I think this would encourage different playstyles as they all would have different strengths. HPS output should be very similiar between the souls to they are all equalish. Just style varying. Any of the three should compliment each other while discouraging multiples of the same role.

    Also, as a nice after thought, in PvP the HoT's and Shields should be able to be purged while of course sentinels purely reactive wouldn't be able to.
    Last edited by CericX; 03-18-2013 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    No...please....no.

    I hate having to juggle hots so was happy they moved warden away from that. Plus the spikey damage in SL isnt really suited towards hots for the most part anyhow.

    There was already some discussion last year when it was more hotcentric about making it so that hots from different wardens could not stack higher than a single warden could stack them. There was a huge outcry over it because of it neutering wardens in pve so badly and so the idea was scrapped.

    Also where would our aoe healing come from in that case? You want to take it away from wardens but do not mention giving it to any other soul. You want us to be single target or dungeon healers only?

    Puri is already pretty poor on the actual healing side its true, but that is no reason to totally remove all its healing and prevent people who use it for healing experts from doing so. Puri DOES need to be looked at in order to provide balance within itself but removing heals totally would be awful.

  3. #3
    Champion Sheridyn's Avatar
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    I don't find any of the healing souls to be particularly fun or engaging in SL with the exception of Defiler (mentioned because the game classifies it as a healing soul). I used to enjoy healing with Ward/Sent (32/34 hybrid) because the healing rotation was extremely rewarding and it was capable of adapting to different situations.

    What irks me the most about the current incarnation of Warden is that it is fundamentally confused about what it wants to do. It has HoTs that aren't worth using for their healing, and are instead used solely for synergy crystal or Reef Barrier procs. It has damaging abilities that it seems are intended for use, yet don't really fit into a healing rotation with their current implementation. What Warden ends up actually doing is trying to replicate Senticar by spamming Healing Cataract/Effusion, with several other AoE cooldowns for mana efficiency.

    It feels like pure Sentinel is the best spec for 5-mans simply because the first 40 points in Warden got nerfed into the floor. It works, just like 51 Sentinel used to work for healing dungeons, but the feeling of security at lower gear levels is terrible.

    Purifier is, well... still Purifier. I've never found it fun or interesting to play.

    tl;dr: Wish we still had the old Ward/Sent for healing
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    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiralia View Post
    No...please....no.

    I hate having to juggle hots so was happy they moved warden away from that. Plus the spikey damage in SL isnt really suited towards hots for the most part anyhow.

    There was already some discussion last year when it was more hotcentric about making it so that hots from different wardens could not stack higher than a single warden could stack them. There was a huge outcry over it because of it neutering wardens in pve so badly and so the idea was scrapped.

    Also where would our aoe healing come from in that case? You want to take it away from wardens but do not mention giving it to any other soul. You want us to be single target or dungeon healers only?

    Puri is already pretty poor on the actual healing side its true, but that is no reason to totally remove all its healing and prevent people who use it for healing experts from doing so. Puri DOES need to be looked at in order to provide balance within itself but removing heals totally would be awful.
    Missing the point I think. Mechanic...fun. Do you enjoy playing them as they are? Can you think of a better mechanic?

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Missing the point I think. Mechanic...fun. Do you enjoy playing them as they are? Can you think of a better mechanic?
    I do enjoy playing Warden as it is, since it is dynamic and useful for current content. Your ideas would make it not useful, much as it was before 1.11.

    The only way to make a purely Heal-Over-Time concept work is if it had more throughput than souls with burst healing such as Sentinel, and to make fights with no burst damage. The sustained throughput of Sentinel is insane right now so this is unfeasible. And of course as was pointed out, Warden is the only AoE healing soul clerics have at the moment, so this would also need to be handled elsewhere. Overall, too much would need to be changed to accomodate a few peoples' preferred playstyle.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 03-18-2013 at 10:16 AM.

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    Plane Touched kiralia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Missing the point I think. Mechanic...fun. Do you enjoy playing them as they are? Can you think of a better mechanic?

    I don't think I missed the point. I took you at your word that it was about opinions.

    Can I think of a better mechanic compared to what you suggested? Yes. What we have now. Since I would not find your suggestions fun.

    Making changes just for the sake of changes without looking at how it affects the class doesn't make something fun.

    Also I don't look at your suggestion as a fun mechanic change for puri....just a nerf which if anything would make it more boring to play than it is now.

    I prefer warden how it is now, I know others who preferred it how it used to be because they liked playing with hots. As we have already mentioned the way damage works in SL means that going back to making them hotcentric again would be messy though.

    Personally I liked the icar mechanic, spam damage to build up heal points then use the heal points for st or aoe heals, with each damaging attack also sending out heals. Defiler could be said to be a replacement for it but its not the same feel to it so not as much fun for me.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Xenoheart's Avatar
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    Since its the opinion thread I will leave my opinion.

    No.

    To every suggestion in the op.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    I find Warden fun because you can play it easy or you can play it hard - and get rewarded for taking the more challenging route.

    The old Warden is dead and buried, some would argue it always was. You never saw many 51 Wardens, usually only Sentinel hybrids because you pretty much needed the heavy hitting HI, and Covenant, TTL, Serendipity were just such great utility.

    Purifier has always been mind-numbingly boring to me - although I guess the real challenge is in pre-emptively using your abilities effectively and not just brute forcing with CD's, or worse - shield botting

    I think if you enjoy a tactical healing playstyle it can be fun, particularly the 54/22 hybrid that most are now using.

    Sentinel is a lot of fun. Who doesn't like big heavy hitting heals full healing tanks in one hit? Well, provided of course that the majority of those heals aren't wasted on overheals. Sentinel is more fun than it was, but still struggling for a raid niche with current health pools and mechanics.

    Sentinel can be played in a lot of different ways as well, so people who enjoy theorycrafting and designing specific counters to specific mechanics will get some fun out of that. I probably enjoy the Sentinel playstyle the most, but Warden is a very close second and at least I get to play it
    Last edited by Bowler Hat; 03-18-2013 at 04:48 PM.

  9. #9
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    I do enjoy playing Warden as it is, since it is dynamic and useful for current content. Your ideas would make it not useful, much as it was before 1.11.

    The only way to make a purely Heal-Over-Time concept work is if it had more throughput than souls with burst healing such as Sentinel, and to make fights with no burst damage. The sustained throughput of Sentinel is insane right now so this is unfeasible. And of course as was pointed out, Warden is the only AoE healing soul clerics have at the moment, so this would also need to be handled elsewhere. Overall, too much would need to be changed to accomodate a few peoples' preferred playstyle.
    Summary of TheGrinnz = Like it the way it is. Got it.

    That it would make it "not useful" only means that it would require more thought on how to put the soul together. When I considered it, my thought was on similiar throughput to sentinel, just a different mechanic to deliver it. Where sentinel is purely reactive, can't heal before the damage is done, I'd thought warden to be preemptive and require a bit more planning for a smoother flow to the fight.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiralia View Post
    Personally I liked the icar mechanic, spam damage to build up heal points then use the heal points for st or aoe heals, with each damaging attack also sending out heals. Defiler could be said to be a replacement for it but its not the same feel to it so not as much fun for me.
    This is how I'd originally envisoned the Justicar when I first looked at the souls back when. Granted I'd not thought of it as a ranged soul but instead as melee. That idea is what orignally got me playing. Wish there were a way to kick the heals upto moderate and the damage upto moderate while dropping the tank aspect to it. (No, I'm not in favor of losing our tank soul, just that something more\different would be nice to play)

  11. #11
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    I find Warden fun because you can play it easy or you can play it hard - and get rewarded for taking the more challenging route.

    The old Warden is dead and buried, some would argue it always was. You never saw many 51 Wardens, usually only Sentinel hybrids because you pretty much needed the heavy hitting HI, and Covenant, TTL, Serendipity were just such great utility.

    Purifier has always been mind-numbingly boring to me - although I guess the real challenge is in pre-emptively using your abilities effectively and not just brute forcing with CD's, or worse - shield botting

    I think if you enjoy a tactical healing playstyle it can be fun, particularly the 54/22 hybrid that most are now using.

    Sentinel is a lot of fun. Who doesn't like big heavy hitting heals full healing tanks in one hit? Well, provided of course that the majority of those heals aren't wasted on overheals. Sentinel is more fun than it was, but still struggling for a raid niche with current health pools and mechanics.

    Sentinel can be played in a lot of different ways as well, so people who enjoy theorycrafting and designing specific counters to specific mechanics will get some fun out of that. I probably enjoy the Sentinel playstyle the most, but Warden is a very close second and at least I get to play it
    Any thought on what would make Puri more enjoyable mechanically? Equally as effective as the others but different?

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CericX View Post
    Any thought on what would make Puri more enjoyable mechanically? Equally as effective as the others but different?
    I think the pre-emptive style is largely OK but perhaps some additional mechanics that can reduce ward casttimes under certain conditions as a reward for maximising the pre-emptive playstyle. I think it needs to be able to react a bit faster in some circumstance.

    Something should definitely be done to make a 61 point build more attractive, and since shield botting has become so widely accepted perhaps the 61 point talent should augment that? Maybe a talent that defaults Symbol of the Sun to three targets so that talented it's hitting five.

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    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    For me, healing is not as fun as it was before all the big cleric changes.

    I miss serendipity, deluge and the ability to have a viable and effective hybrid healing spec.

    Now it's 61 points or forget it.
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    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misun View Post
    For me, healing is not as fun as it was before all the big cleric changes.

    I miss serendipity, deluge and the ability to have a viable and effective hybrid healing spec.

    Now it's 61 points or forget it.
    Not quite true, Purifier is effectively a 54 point build and you can make interesting Defiler/Sent hybrids around a 38 or 40 point Defiler.

    I can understand Serendipity, but Deluge? it was always a second rate heal, HI was invariably better. You may as well pine for Healing Showers.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara CericX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    I think the pre-emptive style is largely OK but perhaps some additional mechanics that can reduce ward casttimes under certain conditions as a reward for maximising the pre-emptive playstyle. I think it needs to be able to react a bit faster in some circumstance.

    Something should definitely be done to make a 61 point build more attractive, and since shield botting has become so widely accepted perhaps the 61 point talent should augment that? Maybe a talent that defaults Symbol of the Sun to three targets so that talented it's hitting five.
    Something along the lines of Flare-up currently?Relate it to a cast time shield with a twist that if the shield gets popped within 1 second your next cast of X is .5 seconds faster? Course that probably just leads straight to spamming that shield.
    How about an overcharge for X cast and if the shield pops within a second or so of that overcharge you get it back or rewarded with a faster cast mechanic?

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