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Thread: Is melee Cleric a No-No? Pvp

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    well in DAoC we didnt HAVE frontal attacks as melee damage dealers. your attacks were all side and rear based and hit like a truck, the anytime attack did half the damage and cost twice the endurance so I pretty much have grown up waylaying people from behind and then running like a jackrabbit as soon as someone came after me.

    even in my normal shaman spec I use freverent strike for pve and attack the mobs from behind because its a damage per seconds increase (as well as a damage per hit)

    so you turn off her rappid fire that way you can burst people down? thats a friggin pheniominal idea why didnt i think about that!?
    how much extra damage does the rank 61 ability add to your hits? Im jus too chicken , especially in this pvp climate to not have the 20 points in justicar and melee.



    EDIT
    may I know your hybrid spec and playstyle?

    Actually daoc had frontal styles, including one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. While most classes did benefit more from side and rear attacks, saying it had none is wrong.


    You might do OK with your hybrid specs, but you will never outperform someone that isn't horrible, in a team environment while using hybrid spec. You'll be there, and participate, but you aren't going to influence the fights near as much. I would think someone with a background in daoc would know this.... unless you're worried about soloing, hybrid isn't the way to go. There's a reason people got almost all defensive realm abilities when they went solo, and almost none when they ran in a group in daoc.

    But play as you wish, just don't try to convince others that it's a useful addition to team vs team.
    Last edited by Nooblet; 03-11-2013 at 10:26 AM.

  2. #32
    Ascendant Misun's Avatar
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    idk....Abearli seems to do pretty well as a melee cleric.

    Dude is pretty beastly imo.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    Actually daoc had frontal styles, including one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. While most classes did benefit more from side and rear attacks, saying it had none is wrong.
    PA is not a "style" its an opener from stealth.....
    but combat styles...

    saying I cant succeed with a hybrid spec, after I post a video of going 15-1 is a bit odd wouldnt you think? the reason people go all offense of all defense is because they are using pvE specs to pvp for the most part.

    Riftstalker+nightblade is not a pve spec because you dont deal enough damage and you dont have enough hp to tank... guess what? its imo the TOP SPEC in pvp right now. and people who made it , did it because they wanted something to excel in pvp
    when I made the templar+justicar spec and people called me a "N00b" for trying to combine "the tank tree with the caster tree" and I put out that video where I would 2v1 and 3v1 people.... that caught on and got nerfed quick.... that wasnt a pve spec that was a pvp spec.

    warrior now has paladin warlord.... thats not a pve spec, because most of the burst damage comes from reactives, its a dominant pvp spec... thats a hybrid spec
    before storm leigon what was the top warrior spec for pvp? riftblade voidknight. hybrid caster and anti magic tank... seems hybrid to me.

    the class that BROKE tabletop D&D? hybrid dual class thief to get the backstab modifier then warrior for the extra attacks and 2handers... isnt that hybrid?

    so id never say hybrid has no place in pvp.... especially in a game .
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  4. #34
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    I used to be able to rock a mean shamicar back in the day. Now the self healing is a bit low and the defenses not really too far there without losing your offensive capabilities. I'm not sure but I really dont like melee cleric in pvp at this point.
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  5. #35
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    The problem with melee hybrid is that there is no synergie at all between shaman and justicar. BishopX, what is the spec you run in this vid? 5X shaman 2X justicar? Your are losing maybe 30% (or more) DPS over a 61 shaman 15 druid for example. The amount of self preservation you gain in return does not compensate for this loss (at all).

    I won't critisize you vids, it is good to show such gameplay, and have fun while doing it, but really the amount of damage you deal is not that great, and the set up is clearly not optimal.

    Justicar mitigation strong talents come quite late in the tree, they require a shield, and a buff which would nullify your shaman damage. There is no synergie at all between between salvation/light damage and physical damage from shaman.

    RS in comparaison 27 points brings better gifts, 3 TPs, mitigation CDs, and lots of % talents on offense and defense. The comparaison is quite sad actually.

    I agree it is important to weigth defense and offense, and I would love to have a PVP hybrid melee build as we had before, but unfortunatly it is no longer available.

    What I play are full shaman, but obviously not in solo play nor when there is not enough healing, and also 54 justicar + sentinel. By spamming censure in zerg figths, with the justic crystal, you can get chloro-like healing output, and it is very strong to push the lines in scion bridge for example. It is quite OP and not extremely used surprisingly, but the most boring spec I have ever played in a MMO (censure spam)
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    PA is not a "style" its an opener from stealth.....
    but combat styles...

    saying I cant succeed with a hybrid spec, after I post a video of going 15-1 is a bit odd wouldnt you think? the reason people go all offense of all defense is because they are using pvE specs to pvp for the most part.

    Riftstalker+nightblade is not a pve spec because you dont deal enough damage and you dont have enough hp to tank... guess what? its imo the TOP SPEC in pvp right now. and people who made it , did it because they wanted something to excel in pvp
    when I made the templar+justicar spec and people called me a "N00b" for trying to combine "the tank tree with the caster tree" and I put out that video where I would 2v1 and 3v1 people.... that caught on and got nerfed quick.... that wasnt a pve spec that was a pvp spec.

    warrior now has paladin warlord.... thats not a pve spec, because most of the burst damage comes from reactives, its a dominant pvp spec... thats a hybrid spec
    before storm leigon what was the top warrior spec for pvp? riftblade voidknight. hybrid caster and anti magic tank... seems hybrid to me.

    the class that BROKE tabletop D&D? hybrid dual class thief to get the backstab modifier then warrior for the extra attacks and 2handers... isnt that hybrid?

    so id never say hybrid has no place in pvp.... especially in a game .
    I was actually referring to armsman styles not stealthers.

    You're videos are meaningless to what is best.. I've gone 20+ - 0. Does that mean the spec I used was best? No. There's so many bad players that lead to most matches being completely lopsided.

    I was in a wafront with you, you went 0-4 with 40k dmg done. While I was 9-0. Does it matter? No. It was pretty lopsided. The next match I was on opposite teams again. You went 5-0, I went 1-4 with 271k dmg done. Only 2 ppl on your team died the whole wf.

    Your kb-death ratio doesn't mean all that much.

  7. #37
    Sword of Telara Abraxas79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    I was actually referring to armsman styles not stealthers.

    You're videos are meaningless to what is best.. I've gone 20+ - 0. Does that mean the spec I used was best? No. There's so many bad players that lead to most matches being completely lopsided.

    I was in a wafront with you, you went 0-4 with 40k dmg done. While I was 9-0. Does it matter? No. It was pretty lopsided. The next match I was on opposite teams again. You went 5-0, I went 1-4 with 271k dmg done. Only 2 ppl on your team died the whole wf.

    Your kb-death ratio doesn't mean all that much.
    I wish they would redo the Shaman spec and make into a ranged dps spec. It should have never been melee. We already have Justicar and Druid for those that want to melee.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenoheart View Post
    I used to be able to rock a mean shamicar back in the day. Now the self healing is a bit low and the defenses not really too far there without losing your offensive capabilities. I'm not sure but I really dont like melee cleric in pvp at this point.
    ummm EVERYONE could rock a mean Shamicar cuz... that ish was BROKEN. this system is much more balanced.
    as for melee cleric.. i mean. I put up a DRUID screen shot last night where me and my pet went 16-1
    and I also put out a Druid video, just a quick one lastnight nothing wonderful but wanted to get something with full druid UP for others to see
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8LPV...I2Y17FKo5Okk8A

    melee is looking UP for me at the moment. im starting to have more success. as now I am playing Justicar tank, 2h justicar damage, druid/justicar offensive, and shaman/justi offensive. every day now and less and less of the ranged specs. though I still think the ranged specs are what you should be using at lower level.


    @Ailis well if this was pve, I would agree with you... yes you lose "DPS" when specing justicar. but this isnt pve and we arent hitting raid bosses. and I am not in the habbit of giving up free points/deaths and dive bombing to get 1 kill then die... so I will ALWAYS put points into justicar because i like being able to stay on target.
    think about the best pvp specs for each class right now... isnt warlord/Paladin a dps loss? Wasnt pre SL Riftblade/VK a "dps loss" ? isnt absurdly nightblade/rift stalker a "dps loss" but all those are phenomenal pvp specs. shaman justicar is nowhere near as overpowered as the above mentioned specs however. I see no point in trying to run around with 20k HP, 20% mitigation, and no healing while on the front line.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    @Ailis well if this was pve, I would agree with you... yes you lose "DPS" when specing justicar. but this isnt pve and we arent hitting raid bosses. and I am not in the habbit of giving up free points/deaths and dive bombing to get 1 kill then die... so I will ALWAYS put points into justicar because i like being able to stay on target.
    think about the best pvp specs for each class right now... isnt warlord/Paladin a dps loss? Wasnt pre SL Riftblade/VK a "dps loss" ? isnt absurdly nightblade/rift stalker a "dps loss" but all those are phenomenal pvp specs. shaman justicar is nowhere near as overpowered as the above mentioned specs however. I see no point in trying to run around with 20k HP, 20% mitigation, and no healing while on the front line.
    wl/pal and nb/rs are great solo queue specs, but they are not the strongest pvp specs for those classes.

    WL/Pal and NB/RS don't sacrifice that much damage compared to full dps specs, they are great hybrids. Sham/just is a significant dps loss and barely worth using.

    basically there is not one do-it-all melee spec. if your team has a ton of healers or you're fighting away from the zerg 61 sham is the way to go. if you really need survivability then 5Xsham/2Xjust is passable but at that point you should just go inq or heal.
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  10. #40
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    It is not surprising that as you increase your passive survival with gear that melee is going to become more and more friendly. Thing to keep in mind though going 16-1 while good doesn't mean a whole lot. All we can see is that you only died once, which means your surviving which is great but the 16 KB's could easily be attributed to getting the last hit and not taking someone from 100%-0. I am not trying to rain on your parade I am just saying that I have seen tanks with some very decent K/D ratios and it was soley attributed to the fact that they got the last hit and not that they really contributed much.

    Last night I was rolling Inq (55-59 bracket mind you on my cleric) and I should ahve had around 40-0 KDR but people kept kill stealing. Numbers are numbers nothing more, you need to base your performance on how well you did overall in your own opinion. I am glad you are doing well in melee though. Gives me hope for when I finally hit 60 and get gear becuase I love shaman and I love a good shaman/just build.

    Out of curiosity how deep in justicar are you going and what are you picking up in the shaman tree. When I roll shamicar I pick up all the passive damage mods and utility I can from shaman then go about 29-31 (i think) in justicar and use justicar abilities. Hammer of Duty is of course my finisher and use only abilities that will build convictions. Maybe post a link if you don't mind.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nooblet View Post
    I was actually referring to armsman styles not stealthers.

    You're videos are meaningless to what is best.. I've gone 20+ - 0. Does that mean the spec I used was best? No. There's so many bad players that lead to most matches being completely lopsided.

    I was in a wafront with you, you went 0-4 with 40k dmg done. While I was 9-0. Does it matter? No. It was pretty lopsided. The next match I was on opposite teams again. You went 5-0, I went 1-4 with 271k dmg done. Only 2 ppl on your team died the whole wf.

    Your kb-death ratio doesn't mean all that much.

    armsman?
    but thats a TANK CLASS, and goes with what i said, tanks having anytime and frontal styles. armsman wore plate had DOUBLE my hp and couldnt be crowd controlled.... ya thats a tank even with a 2hander.

    as for pvp.... umm. ya you win some and you lose some, I grade myself and others in what happens in pitched battles that arent spawn camps. And I totally wouldnt say making videos of melee cleric, or cleric in general is MEANINGLESS. we are the lowest represented class in pvp right now. I am keeping up the struggle.. join me my brother. Id love to see your 20-0s im tired of watching thief videos that are edited to show ONLY the best parts, and set to driving rock music... been there done that. My videos when I post them are UNedited to show exactly whats going on and what to expect when playing as the class. not just highlights which can get misleading and stroke my own ego with monster crit pics.

    as for kill to death ratio meaning nothing in pvp.....people from pvp games may disagree with you. I want to go 15-1 with a win EVERY game. packerdown and I went a combined 52-2 yesterday in a DRAW I dont think either of us were saying "damn I wish we would have died more and killed less" and to me, and I know many vets from pvp games would agree with me, Ill take a fight in the middle where its a nice balanced even fight for 10 minutes and EVERYONE has fun and I go 22-0 and a loss... over a spawn camp victory where I go 0-4 any day of the week and twice on sunday. and Ill take going 9-0 over going 12-15

    I mean in my brain ... I am trying to remove your pieces from the board and not lose mine and if i cant take the pieces I want im going to take the pieces I can without giving up something crucial in return.
    as the name implies.. this is chess not checkers.
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  12. #42
    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelebra View Post
    I 16 KB's could easily be attributed to getting the last hit and not taking someone from 100%-0. I am not trying to rain on your parade I am just saying that I have seen tanks with some very decent K/D ratios and it was soley attributed to the fact that they got the last hit and not that they really contributed much..
    Well think about it like this.... EVERYONE is trying to kill people. I just posted a druid video which is just that, I club the heck out of everyone and then a Sab bomb comes in at the end and my target dies. but guess what... still makes for great game play footage for the video beating someone 3/4 of the way to death

    as for how far in justicar? Ill post it again what i reccomend but I will not tell my exact spec because then I will get trolled ENDLESSLY about how "you suck because you are a noob and didnt pick up... and your are a terrabaddie because your spec is XXXX"
    so here is what I reccomend for people to play

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...B0B8aw/lgGaGag
    I reccomend this spec for if you HAVE TO be melee and are low rank. NO you wont net the kills you think you deserve in your mind but it will keep you in melee combat , manage a decent kill to death ratio and get your comfortable with front line combat without getting 2 shot. I used this build only I didnt take the justicar +healing mein, I used the +armor mein and slid points around. With the spec use strike of judgement from justicar. it hits harder than crushing blow, heals you AND gives you convictions. 7 point conviction hammer toss crit people for 9k with this spec and make GREAT finishers since they have a flight time can be paired with Ekkhards for nice burst combo

    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...CM/ln2CRkqkaE8
    can be used next when you have your full merc

    then
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...fk/lklaGyBhlq8

    after that point im sure nobody would care or want my advice about spec because they would taylor to their own needs by then.

    as for druid its easy
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...cg/DhlaaaaGyF0

    and SPAM FAE EXTACTION TIL THEY NERF IT. someone at the company is currently out of their mind in giving a damage dealing class a 30M pull on a FIFTEEN sec cooldown. ABUSE THIS NOW MY BROTHERS because I will be trying my hardest to get this nerfed. but having a pet that can kill and most people will ignore.. a charge, a teleport and a pull you should be always on target.
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  13. #43
    Rift Chaser Kelebra's Avatar
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    You pretty much hit the nail on the head with you comment about KDR. My point being that too many people put alot of weight on stats they see in a WF; total damage done and KDR. While these stats have meaning they aren't the end all stat and people need to realize that. Thanks for the links, I use a very similar build to what you posted for my hyrbid/survival melee build; always nice to compare what others are using.
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  14. #44
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    Love him or hate him...at least Bishop isn't afraid to try new specs and strategies...and post the results.

    He does this knowing he's probably going to get a lot of crap and possibly belittled. Yet he still does it, in order to share information and show what does and doesn't work.

    This is coming from someone who has trolled him pretty hard...but he's earned my respect after running several CQ with him and seeing how he does.

    I respect the fact that he's not afraid to try new things and step away from the typical "cookie cutter" specs..and still be successful.
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  15. #45
    Rift Chaser Kelebra's Avatar
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    I will second that. Pre SL I couldn't stand the guy. And it wasn't for anything more than the fact that when I was in a WF with him I had to read is annoying shout macros. I do alot of what Bishop does though and thats playing with specs and see what works, I just don't take the time to post or record video of it and for that I appreciate his work. Alot of times I will be testing out a spec just to see he posted a video and a comparable soul setup; saves me a little time an energy becuase I can see how he is playing it and I can tweak it or know what to expect before I run it myself.
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