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Thread: Plus damge or Plus Wisdom

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default Plus damge or Plus Wisdom

    So as in the title I question at what point in time does 1% damage outweight 2% Wisdom or vice vesra.
    There must be a magic number of is my Wisdom is 2000 and I gain 2% wisdom (40 or 30sp and 20cr) is that better, worse or equal to 1% damage?

    The same question holds true for Spell Power If i have 4500sp and gain 2%(90sp) when does this become better than 1% damage?


    Thanks for future input

  2. #2
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    The +%Wisdom and %Spellpower talents are always better than the +%damage ones, except perhaps at very low levels. The reason is that you have so many +%damage talents already which are additive and dilute the value of an additional 1%. Wisdom and Spellpower modifiers haven't got the same issue, at least not to the same degree.
    Nope.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    The +%Wisdom and %Spellpower talents are always better than the +%damage ones, except perhaps at very low levels. The reason is that you have so many +%damage talents already which are additive and dilute the value of an additional 1%. Wisdom and Spellpower modifiers haven't got the same issue, at least not to the same degree.
    This is incorrect.

    You would need a 1.8x crit modifier for the %Wisdom talent to outweigh % dmg in a 61 Inquisitor spec.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    This is incorrect.

    You would need a 1.8x crit modifier for the %Wisdom talent to outweigh % dmg in a 61 Inquisitor spec.
    For realsies? That's a surprise. I defer to your superior knowledge.

    EDIT: Upon reflection I realise I was basing my assumption on the %Healing vs %Wisdom and %Spellpower talents and assuming Inq was similar
    Last edited by Primalthirst; 01-20-2013 at 06:51 PM.
    Nope.

  5. #5
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    This is incorrect.

    You would need a 1.8x crit modifier for the %Wisdom talent to outweigh % dmg in a 61 Inquisitor spec.
    In general when you have a choice between 5% damage and 10% wisdom it's extremely close and heavily dependent on your gear level.

  6. #6
    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    In general when you have a choice between 5% damage and 10% wisdom it's extremely close and heavily dependent on your gear level.
    ^this although i will say that the majority of time... 5% damage still comes out ahead regardless of gear level due to how and when the 2 are calculated.

    For the average person.......

    SP% > Dmg% > Wis%

    But its not always the case.

  7. #7
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Logically, at some value of Wisdom the %Wisdom talent will overtake the %Damage talent. Whether that value is attainable in current gear tiers is another matter completely.

    There are other factors that can lower this value though, namely %Spellpower since it is also applied to the derived Spellpower from the %Wisdom talents - effectively you get to double dip.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    Logically, at some value of Wisdom the %Wisdom talent will overtake the %Damage talent. Whether that value is attainable in current gear tiers is another matter completely.

    There are other factors that can lower this value though, namely %Spellpower since it is also applied to the derived Spellpower from the %Wisdom talents - effectively you get to double dip.
    Except that as you are gaining wisdom, you are also gaining a lot of spellpower from sources outside of wisdom, which I believe increases the value of the +dmg.

  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Except that as you are gaining wisdom, you are also gaining a lot of spellpower from sources outside of wisdom, which I believe increases the value of the +dmg.
    None of which invalidates anything I said

    If you want to model this properly you need a DPS calculator. Either way the simple answer is %dmg over %wisdom, the more accurate answer is "it depends".

  10. #10
    Plane Walker The Witchking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    Logically, at some value of Wisdom the %Wisdom talent will overtake the %Damage talent. Whether that value is attainable in current gear tiers is another matter completely.
    Yep, not with the current tier gear.

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  11. #11
    Shadowlander Mylneria's Avatar
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    I use the 10% Wis because it fits best to my current gear (4949 unbuffed) in the Shaman Tree

    For Inquisitor im currently testing speccs. With 61 Inq 15 Defiler (With plus Dmg) i got ~14k Dps on Zaviel and with the 61 Inq 10 Defiler (Wisdom) and 10% SP from Sentinel i was also around 14k again... Now 61/4/11 is rdy for testing (Wednesday)

    I agree that , at some point of gear improve, wis > plusdmg, because plusdmg only goes to base value of the spell i guess

    alright, agree?

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Going by my tooltip damage numbers for massive blow, and nysyr's rebuke, I get higher damage with +wiz for shaman, and with +damage for inq.

    Specs being 61 sham, 10 druid, 5 inq, and 61 inq, 11 warden, 4defiler.

    I think its probably due to the fact that the warden spec has less +damage from gifts and so it gains a bigger benefit from the +% damage talent in defiler, whilst the shaman spec has all 76pts in damage gifts, so the +%damage talents is worth less compared to the wisdom.

    The difference between them is small though.
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  13. #13
    Ascendant Stay's Avatar
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    The choice happens in specs with defiler, druid, or cabalist.

    Defiler should always take wisdom because it benefits heals too. If you don't intend to ever do any heals, IMO don't take defiler tree at all. It might look nice in theory for DPS, but in practice you will spend a lot of time under 90% health and rage stacks will drop pretty often (unless for some reason your raid lets you put a crappy link on a tank).

    Druid should probably take wisdom for the additional benefit to pet. But it's mostly a moot point as any reasonable spec will get both.

    Cabalist probably wants damage unless your spec has heals in it. But again, I almost always take both, skipping the 2nd tier if need be. For most specs I prefer the 1% all damage talent to the 2% DoT damage talent (which seems buggy and doesn't affect everything it should). And the spellpower to BF/ST talent is crap: a small bonus to unimportant spells.
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    If you don't intend to ever do any heals, IMO don't take defiler tree at all. It might look nice in theory for DPS, but in practice you will spend a lot of time under 90% health and rage stacks will drop pretty often (unless for some reason your raid lets you put a crappy link on a tank).
    Untrue, Rage Blight is a huge bonus in almost every raid fight, particularly since it is multiplicative with other damage buffs and not additive. The top Inquisitor and Cabalist specs use Defiler as a subsoul because even one stack of Rage Blight matches what you would get from other trees. I assume Shaman is the same. In these cases the decision between +damage or +wisdom matters.

    Cabalist probably wants damage unless your spec has heals in it. But again, I almost always take both, skipping the 2nd tier if need be. For most specs I prefer the 1% all damage talent to the 2% DoT damage talent (which seems buggy and doesn't affect everything it should). And the spellpower to BF/ST talent is crap: a small bonus to unimportant spells.
    Shadow's Touch is worthless yes, but Bound Fate is a large percentage of the damage in ST and AoE particularly when using Sign of Asias (which should be used often), simply due to the number of times it's cast in a fight. Either way it's moot, Cabalist specs below 58 are rather worthless other than for soloing, and you can just skip some utility spells.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 01-23-2013 at 09:00 AM.

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