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Thread: How to fix cleric ? (New Version)

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    Default How to fix cleric ? (New Version)

    How to fix Clerics ?
    (Kervik, this post is for you)


    Hello, this my ideas to fix some Cleric Souls.
    I don't have idea for healing soul because I think they're enough good at this moment.
    I skipped Justicar, there are few things to do on it (but it's not an emergency).
    About Druid, I think it should be more support or hybrid heal oriented but I don't know how. (Like old -icar or something like that, I don't know.)

    Inquisitor :
    • Fanaticism : Removed
    • Zealotry : Removed
    • "Instant Bolt" : Rank 9, 1/1, need BoR talent. Instant capacity which deal 70% of BoR damage.
    • "AoE DoT" : Rank 8, 1/1, need Circle of Oblivion. DoT wich deal 50% of Scourge damage, up to 5 ennemies.
    • "Crit Buff" : Rank 6, 2/2, Now Each time you fail to critically hit an ennemy with a damaging single target ability, you will gain a 15 second duration stacking buff. This buff increases your Spell Critical Hit Chance by 5/10% for each stack. A successful critical hit on an enemy will consume all stacks of the buff.
    • Castigation : Reduces the cast time and mana cost of Bolt of Judgment and Bolt of Retribution by 5/10/15/20/25%, also reduces the GCD by 0.1sec per point spent.
    • Life and Death Concord : Your damaging Life spells (including each tick of Nysyr's Rebuke) reduce the cast time of your next Bolt of Depravity by 0.3s, as well as increasing its damage by 10% and reducing its mana cost by 10%. Max 5 stacks.
    • Symbol of Corruption : Now, Your Bolt of Depravity applies 3 stacks of Corruption. When the target is struck by a Life spell, the target takes an additional 10% damage. This removes 1 stack.
    • Nysyr Rebuke : Reduced damage by 10 or 20%.
    • Mental Resilience : Now 20/40/60% AND/OR Righteous Indignation : Now 10/20/30%.
    • Soul Drain : Applies Soul Drain to up to 2 enemies near the target and your target. For each enemy hit, deals 1056 to 1167 Death damage to up to 4 enemies.
    • Shroud of Agony : Grants a 20% chance when hit to apply "SoA" on the ennemy. It deal xx Death damage to up to 10 nearby enemies over 6s. Lasts 1h. Can only affect 1 ennemy at the same time.


    Shaman :
    • Furious Assault : Now reduces only AoE damage done by 15%.
    • New Ability : Increase the range of the Cleric's single target melee range attacks to 30m. [Reduces the Cleric's single target melee range damage by 30%. Toggled] OR [15s duration / 30s cooldown as harbinger]
    • Frozen Wrath : Deals xxx Water damage over 15s. Increases the damage the enemy takes from the Cleric's Vengeances by 100% and non-Physical damage taken by 5% for 30s. Spreads to up to 5 nearby enemies if hit by your Strike of the Maelstrom. (Same stacking group as Clinging Spirit & co)
    • Ekkehard's Grasp : Now castable from back.
    • Stormborn : Now 10/20/30% AND/OR Frostbite : Now 15/30/45%.
    • Rage of North : Now 15 stacks.


    Defiler :
    • Rage Blight : Grants the Cleric's abilities a 5 or 10% chance to reduce the GCD of his next death damage ability by 1.5s. When damaged, applies Rage. Increases damage done by 1% for 10s. Max 5 stacks.
    • Grief Blight : Grants the Cleric's abilities a 5 or 10% chance to reduce the GCD of his next death healing ability by 1.5s. When damaged, applies Grief. Increases healing done and absorption granted by 1% for 10s. Max 5 stacks.
    • Explosive Growth : Now 5sec CD.
    • Ghastly Restoration : Now 10sec CD.
    • Rampant Growth : Now 3/3, Once/Twice/Thrice + If the target of your link have already 3 stacks of Foul Growth, the next stack is triggered and duration of 3 previous stacks refreshed.
    • Grim Euphoria : Now 2/2, 2%/4%.
    • Feedback : Restore 35% more health to targets links instead of 25%.
    • Arrogance : Reduces the cast time and mana cost of Somatic Desecration by 5/10/15/20/25%, also reduces the GCD by 0.1sec per point spent.
    • Obsessive : Now Rank 1. (Instead of Horrible Visage)
    • Horrible Visage : Now Rank 2. Increases your damage done by [1/2/3/4/5%] OR [2/4/6/8/10%] for each of your Bonds on the ennemy [and/or] Links active.


    Cabalist :
    • Death's Grasp : Now 2/2. Increases the effect of Spell Power on your Shadow's Touch and Bound Fate by 5/10%.
    • New Talent : Rank 6, 2/2. Grants the Cleric's death abilities a 10/20% chance to apply [XXXX] on the ennemy. It increases non-Physical damage taken by the cleric by 15% for 5s. Can only affect 1 ennemy.
    • New Talent : Rank 8, 1/1. Transforms the Cleric into a [XXXX]. Summons 4 mirror [XXXX] that each deal xx to xx Death damage. Lasts 20s. 1min CD.

    *************************

    Why reduce the GCD of Bolt of Judgement & Somatic Desecration (with Arrogance / Castigation) ?
    Because in raid we loose dps from our Bolts, it's casted at 1.36s (with only aura, less with temp buff) and we have a 1.5s GCD. It was did with BoD, why not with others Bolts wich have reduce cast time.

    As you can see :
    1.5s BoJ with 1.5s GCD = 92,5 BoJ in 2:30
    1.5s BoJ with 1s GCD = 92,5 BoJ in 2:30
    1.36s BoJ with 1.5s GCD = 97 BoJ in 2:30 (Archon Speed Cast Aura)
    1.36s BoJ with 1s GCD = 100 BoJ in 2:30 (Archon Speed Cast Aura)

    Furthermore, we loose 3 Bolt each mins and it's not about server lag because insta-cast ability doesn't have this issue with 1.5s GCD.
    BUT with 1s GCD, we loose 1,5 insta-cast ability per mins. (1-2, it depends)
    I think it's cast animation or maybe the travel time. Any dev got an idea ?
    Last edited by Aethys; 01-08-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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  2. #2
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    How to fix clerics; give them Mein of Aggression again.
    Swishers - Cleric - 4/4 FT, 3/5 EE, 4/4 DQ

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    I disagree with your opinion on Druid. Its utility needs to be increases, not its healing or defenses or even buffing (a la Archon, Bard or BM) we have a plethora of souls and classes that can do all that. I personally like that it has a pull (even though i complained about it previously).

    Would like to see trickster finally be of worth, and spirits brought back in similar fashion that does different offensive/defensive/friendly things, possibly slows, pushes, roots, pulls (both friendly and unfriendly targets) depending on which pet is out. It should be a more tactical soul, especially if shamans, cabs (and inqui) are being considered for dps. We have ranged ST, melee ST and cabby capable of sufficient ST (especially considering sabs are getting toned down) and aoe. .

    I am weary about your inqui suggestions.

    I would figure people would want to get rid of Shadows Touch due to obliterate -> BF, BF has many power ups in the tree, to the point where its damage is not that much lower than ST, plus its instant, can be casted from the back, has an extra 10% crit rate, and actually received benefit from GCD skills.

    As of this point, i think ST is a useless skill. But again, this is outside of raiding, but dungeoning, when i do play a cab (and dont have time, or dont feel like, changing specs as well as mobile fights) putting on obliterate makes me completely mobile. Something Cab is for the most part, and something ST goes against.

    Also surprised that SB wasnt tossed in, however, your concern seems to be with DPS, when thats not the only thing actually wrong with clerics as a whole. But again, probably because you have raiding in mind.


    That same thought process on shaman. Increasing its range has, as well as its overall power, affects other parts of the game that is not raiding (my problem with your Inqui suggestions as well). I would rather, instead, and increase of mobility, as opposed to voiding disconnection. That way, it will allow shaman to perform all parts of the game instead of an extremely specific one.


    One thing i do agree with is animation and travel time on certain skills. However, thats more for Justi and Druid pets, than inqui.
    Last edited by Eughe; 01-08-2013 at 05:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    The changes i'd like to see most are in the quote below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys View Post
    Inquisitor :
    [*]"Instant Bolt" : Rank 9, 1/1, need BoR talent. Instant capacity which deal 70% of BoR damage.
    I believe what he means is:
    Bolt of Retribution is now instant, reduced damage by 30%.
    Bolt of Judgment increased damage to what Bolt of Retribution used to be.

    Which is needed because we need mobility in inquisitor, and lose 30% dmg while moving, just like Rogues and Tempest, although they lose less. But we currently lose 100% if we dont use a healing soul ability like Waterjet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys View Post
    [*]Castigation : Reduces the cast time and mana cost of Bolt of Judgment and Bolt of Retribution by 5/10/15/20/25%, also reduces the GCD of Bolt of Judgment by 0.1sec per point spent.
    Emphasis on reduces GCD of Bolt of Judgment only, not Bolt of Retribution(if the above suggestion was implemented). That way we can actually benefit from Burning Purpose.

    Without an Archon it would be 1.5s due to the cast time, so we gain nothing there, but it would be very useful in raids.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys View Post
    Shaman :
    [*]Furious Assault : Now reduces only AoE damage done by 15%.
    It is needed because the 15% reduction on ST is unwarranted, Harbinger has this very same ability and name but without reduction, what gives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys View Post
    [*]New Ability : Increase the range of the Cleric's single target melee range attacks to 30m. [Reduces the Cleric's single target melee range damage by 30%. Toggled] OR [15s duration / 30s cooldown as harbinger]
    Needed because besides Ekkehard's invocation we have absolutely nothing to use on disconnects, and only 1 charge that has travel time. Also, Harbinger, what gives.
    Last edited by Byona; 01-08-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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  5. #5
    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swishers View Post
    How to fix clerics; give them Mein of Aggression again.
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I disagree with your opinion on Druid. Its utility needs to be increases, not its healing or defenses or even buffing (a la Archon, Bard or BM) we have a plethora of souls and classes that can do all that. I personally like that it has a pull (even though i complained about it previously).

    Would like to see trickster finally be of worth, and spirits brought back in similar fashion that does different offensive/defensive/friendly things, possibly slows, pushes, roots, pulls (both friendly and unfriendly targets) depending on which pet is out. It should be a more tactical soul, especially if shamans, cabs (and inqui) are being considered for dps. We have ranged ST, melee ST and cabby capable of sufficient ST (especially considering sabs are getting toned down) and aoe.
    Perhaps, I don't have idea for Druid, because atm it's a good spec for Solo/PvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I am weary about your inqui suggestions.
    Lol ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    I would figure people would want to get rid of Shadows Touch due to obliterate -> BF, BF has many power ups in the tree, to the point where its damage is not that much lower than ST, plus its instant, can be casted from the back, has an extra 10% crit rate, and actually received benefit from GCD skills.

    As of this point, i think ST is a useless skill. But again, this is outside of raiding, but dungeoning, when i do play a cab (and dont have time, or dont feel like, changing specs as well as mobile fights) putting on obliterate makes me completely mobile. Something Cab is for the most part, and something ST goes against.

    Also surprised that SB wasnt tossed in, however, your concern seems to be with DPS, when thats not the only thing actually wrong with clerics as a whole. But again, probably because you have raiding in mind.
    Yes you're right, atm ST is a bit useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    That same thought process on shaman. Increasing its range has, as well as its overall power, affects other parts of the game that is not raiding (my problem with your Inqui suggestions as well). I would rather, instead, and increase of mobility, as opposed to voiding disconnection. That way, it will allow shaman to perform all parts of the game instead of an extremely specific one.
    I don't understand, with these changes or some of these, shaman will be able to be on the same level as Harbinger. Good DPS, Good Tools, Good AoE, No DPS Loss during Interrupt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    I believe what he means is:
    Bolt of Retribution is now instant, reduced damage by 30%.
    Bolt of Judgment increased damage to what Bolt of Retribution used to be.

    Which is needed because we need mobility in inquisitor, and lose 30% dmg while moving, just like Rogues and Tempest, although they lose less. But we currently lose 100% if we dont use a healing soul ability like Waterjet.
    No, I change the previous idea (from the previous post How to fix cleric) to this because someone said that BoJ will be a bit too much powerful.

    But in fact, this one or the other one will result in :
    One Bolt Castable
    One Bolt Instant wich deal 70% dmg of Bolt Castable.
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    Rift Disciple Bubbaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aethys View Post
    [*]Castigation : Reduces the cast time and mana cost of Bolt of Judgment and Bolt of Retribution by 5/10/15/20/25%, also reduces the GCD by 0.1sec per point spent.
    61shaman with this is going around with 0.5sec GCD as i understood it.
    Got to move it high up the tree to make it work

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    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbaz View Post
    61shaman with this is going around with 0.5sec GCD as i understood it.
    Got to move it high up the tree to make it work
    Don't think spam BoJ with 61 Sham is a good option to DPS.
    But yes, in this case we can do the idea from other thread (it's like Byona said above).
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  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Bubbaz's Avatar
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    First thought i got after i read that was general GCD reduction.

    If it was just bolts which had reduced GCD, it would be just weird to play.
    Also, then bolt damage should be reduced, because with reduced cast time and GDC it would propably be superior just to spam BoR?


    E: *bonk* It would be 1.5s cast with 1s GCD? the forget above
    Last edited by Bubbaz; 01-09-2013 at 02:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbaz View Post
    E: *bonk* It would be 1.5s cast with 1s GCD? the forget above
    Yes.



    1.5s cast, 1s GCD for BoJ/BoR and 1.5s GCD for New Instant Bolt (wich deal 70% dmg of BoR).

    OR

    1.5s cast, 1s GCD for BoJ (wich deal actual dmg of BoR) and 1.5s GCD for Instant BoR (wich deal 70% of actual dmg).



    The only difference between 1st and 2nd is BoJ is available for all soul (if you take Inq as subsoul) and BoR is only avaliable for 41+ Inq spec. It's why I did the 1st proposal instead of the 2nd.

    Explanations of these changes are at the end of my 1st post for GCD reduction and Byona explained in his post why we need the instant bolt.
    Last edited by Aethys; 01-09-2013 at 02:46 AM.
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbaz View Post
    First thought i got after i read that was general GCD reduction.

    If it was just bolts which had reduced GCD, it would be just weird to play.
    Also, then bolt damage should be reduced, because with reduced cast time and GDC it would propably be superior just to spam BoR?


    E: *bonk* It would be 1.5s cast with 1s GCD? the forget above
    Yes the cast time would still be 1.5s even though its 1s GCD, that way it will not be OP, in fact it will be exactly the same, however we can actually benefit from Burning Purpose instead of it doing nothing at all.
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbaz View Post
    61shaman with this is going around with 0.5sec GCD as i understood it.
    Got to move it high up the tree to make it work
    This only reduces the GCD of bolt of judgment, Aethys didnt explain it properly. And you're right, moving it up to 16 points would be better to make it impossible for 61 Shaman to get it.
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    Ascendant No_Exit's Avatar
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    Trinity clerics were actually discussing Inquisitor changes last night. We know whats wrong with shaman.... its melee that has no disconnect protection and has an unnecessary nerf to its ST in the Furious Assault dmg reduction. It was the AoE that needed toning down.... and that is primarily because of Frozen Wrath being bugged.

    But back to the Inquisitor changes. Honestly the spec itself while it could use some tuning (and i like some of the ideas tossed up here), just needs a damage bump on everything but the burst abilities. Bump up the base ability damage. Vex/Scourge, BoJ/BoR, the SH dot, Harsh Discipline, the BoD dot. Nysyr's is fine where its at, and the freak outs from the PvP environment primarily have to do with Tidal Surge+Nysyr's.

    That brings up the other point. The burst abilities in Inq dont really need much of a nerf if any (aka Nysyr's and BoD). However it would be a smart idea to make Tidal Surge heals only... which would then make going into the warden tree pointless for Inquisitor... solve the stupid "burst" complaints, and give the spec a more consistent higher damage via other changes and a slight burst nerf.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Aethys's Avatar
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    If warden is nerfed, buff defiler 10/15 pts then ;)

    (Like what I said with link/bond active to buff % dmg done)
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  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    shaman disconnect issue would be massively helped by making the charge off the GCD (like druid)

    druid is awesome because any time the boss moves out of range you just pop back in with no disruption. on shaman you're better off walking to the boss rather than using your charge.

  15. #15
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    I disagree with Inquisitor, just because you're making the spec even more faceroll to play.

    If we start getting competitive dps I'd like the spec to be difficult.

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