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Thread: Defiler Improvement

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Defiler Improvement

    After playing around with this soul for awhile now, I realy dont have that many things to complain about. That being said there are one or two things I would like to see happen with this soul to make playing it more fun and become a better healer all around.

    First, Rampant Growth, I would like to see this change to a Flat % chance to proc something around 40$ or 50%. the reason being that for this soul to be able true offensive healer its needs to be able to have more controll over putting foul growths on its targets. The 30% and 20% link can easily maintain these guys, But fail on the lower links

    Hideous Reconstruction, Would like to see this incrased a bit. its healing is only just better then the 0 point hot from warden.

    Foul Growths, would like to see the duration on these incrased a bit. mainly so that if for some reason you do have to stop attacking you dont lose all your growths on people.


    Defilers can be an awesome and very fun healer to play but it does need some help in some area's. Giving it an easier way to maintain its foul growths on its targets will go along way to making this a real Healer.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched starg's Avatar
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    1) Rampant Growth : if you do that, it's ****ing op, i don't want it personally, and i'm playing defiler as soon as i can.

    2) raid synergy crystal is improving it by 6.000 frm what i remember.

    3) it's ok, it add some management, i dont see any issue with this, if you want to maintain the stack, cast foul growth and that's good.

    Right now, i dont want any chance to the defiler, it's doing fine, it's not too powerful and it's not underpowered.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by starg View Post
    1) Rampant Growth : if you do that, it's ****ing op, i don't want it personally, and i'm playing defiler as soon as i can.

    2) raid synergy crystal is improving it by 6.000 frm what i remember.

    3) it's ok, it add some management, i dont see any issue with this, if you want to maintain the stack, cast foul growth and that's good.

    Right now, i dont want any chance to the defiler, it's doing fine, it's not too powerful and it's not underpowered.
    How would it be over power to have heals on 4 people? im not asking for 100% chance just something better then 10% and 20% for the lower links.

    You shouldnt have to raid for that ablilty to be useful, in its current state its garbage.

    The increase time is my last change becuse if they didnt want to make a flat chance to proc foul growth on attacks it would give you more time to re proc growths on the lower links. this not a good fix to the problem however.
    Last edited by The Vekk; 01-06-2013 at 11:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara Shibi's Avatar
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    Biggest problem with defilers is that you have the raid group pulling in one direction wanting them limited so other healers have a role to fill and you have the non-raid players who just want to do freaking dungeons without the drama.
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  5. #5
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    The problem with Defiler as I see it is as follows....


    Essentially Sentinel, Purifier and Warden are all better AOE healers than Defiler that's the first problem. Following on with that problem is the way the game works there isn't really a place where Defiler works in a raid.

    Tanks take damage all the time in a raid and most encounters are multi-tank. The Defiler can reduce the damage taken significantly on 2 targets, but what else can it do ?

    Go to do some damage, you need a minimum of 3 GCD on damage to build up the Growth but.. tanks are generally taking damage all the time, even with a 30% reduction this can be a death sentence. So you can instead concentrate on healing only, and that's generally fine but you're really inside Chloromancer space when you do that, that's the main competition and Defiler basically loses that one every time.

    So lets say in a raid .... lets run a Chloromancer + X + Warden combo ... the Defiler is a weak point in that combination every time for every encounter in the game so far that i've seen. There is always going to be a reason to run Purifier or Sentinel in that X spot instead of a Defiler. Very limited AOE healing, no AOE cleanse, no Sterilize etc.

    I think the biggest mistake with Defiler is they tried to make it a tank healer hybrid instead of an AOE healer hybrid. There used to be an AOE hybrid slot for a Cleric lots of times we all know that (Inquisicar etc) but it's much harder with tank healing the way the game is.
    Last edited by Malark; 01-07-2013 at 02:47 AM.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched starg's Avatar
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    I dont really understand people who say a -30% dmg on the MT isnt good enough, while applying the clinging spirit, avec some dps, and having burst heals + the strongest defensive CD of the game right now.

    I use it to run expertss, solo heal, i add a nice dps on the trash, the health of my tank isnt dropping.

    It also allow tanks to take hits they shouldnt, like a 60k hit.

    I used it on the 10man, and it was also very useful/powerful for the two first boss.

    But, you're right, the AOE isnt very powerful, but it's not your role.

    I think improving it would be dangerous, it would become a bit OP.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by starg View Post
    I dont really understand people who say a -30% dmg on the MT isnt good enough, while applying the clinging spirit, avec some dps, and having burst heals + the strongest defensive CD of the game right now.

    I use it to run expertss, solo heal, i add a nice dps on the trash, the health of my tank isnt dropping.

    It also allow tanks to take hits they shouldnt, like a 60k hit.

    I used it on the 10man, and it was also very useful/powerful for the two first boss.

    But, you're right, the AOE isnt very powerful, but it's not your role.

    I think improving it would be dangerous, it would become a bit OP.
    Essentially the only way it works if if there's a slot for a Defiler that gets the benefit from linking those 2 tanks but still generates enough DPS to be worth it and it seems dicey to me maybe someone more experienced could tell me where i'm getting it wrong.

  8. #8
    Plane Touched starg's Avatar
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    it's a security, it's even better than a puri, it increase your tank (virtualy) by 30%, meaning, he can take mechanic hitting very hard even w/o a full set of raid level gears, for example.

    As well, it does apply the CS in aoe. And with the current state of shaman, most of the cleric dps play it instead of the inquisitor.

    Plus, it might depend on the guild, but i didnt see the sentinel shining in any raid recently, so the only healer CD that reduce dmg on the tank are senti HC & defiler 61, as there's no spot for a senti since the chloro does a better hps, the defiler bring the tools you might want, but, as i said, it depend on the guild.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by starg View Post
    it's a security, it's even better than a puri, it increase your tank (virtualy) by 30%, meaning, he can take mechanic hitting very hard even w/o a full set of raid level gears, for example.

    As well, it does apply the CS in aoe. And with the current state of shaman, most of the cleric dps play it instead of the inquisitor.

    Plus, it might depend on the guild, but i didnt see the sentinel shining in any raid recently, so the only healer CD that reduce dmg on the tank are senti HC & defiler 61, as there's no spot for a senti since the chloro does a better hps, the defiler bring the tools you might want, but, as i said, it depend on the guild.
    Well yeah I've been through all of TODQ no Defiler.

    For Frozen Tempest the first boss you need a Puri for Sterilize and they can throw out sheilds across the raid, have more cooldowns and 54 build has aoe cleanse and actually does have healers cov. For the second you just run a Chloro and 3 Wardens and for the 3rd boss it doesn't seem like a great idea to use it compared to any of the other Cleric healing souls. That's where i'm up to.
    Last edited by Malark; 01-07-2013 at 03:41 AM.

  10. #10
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    The only thing defailer misses is a grp cleanse in own tree, rest is more than fine.

    Now a competent defailer does reasonable dmg, insane burst st heals on demand way better than puri cds as its constant...Only thing puri really shines in a Sots bot.

    And as other people with a brain posted the 30% dmg reduction + 61 cd are both massive win.
    There is not allways room for a defailer but if raid has enough dmg (then there should allways be room) simply to make it easy mode for the other healers?


    And its the best healer for experts by a long mile only 2 enc i have to switch and that for grp/ae cleanse only.
    Last edited by Runiez; 01-07-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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  11. #11
    Telaran
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    imo, the only thing that could really be usefull is an off gcd skill to trigger foul growth's stacks to make it more reactive. Cause for now or you play it aggressive by maxing your dps while protecting the tanks with the links (and some melees to increase your dps with pain transmission) or you play it more "healy" and then your role is quite punctual and boring.
    (not even talking about explosive growth's stacks of foul growth being OP and having to prevent your self overwritting them with a damaging ability .... )

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  12. #12
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    For one thing, the links are too strong. -30% damage on the main tank constantly is a balance problem. If the raid devs make a fight where tank heals are challenging even with the 30% link, then a defiler will be required for that fight.

    The main gameplay problem IMO is the foul growth mechanics. Playing the class as a hybrid (as it seems mainly intended), you are either not healing at all or healing in huge spikes. It is rare that a raid needs a big spike heal from a hybrid - that's what the cooldowns on the pure heal souls are for. So the defiler has the choice of mostly overhealing with huge foul growth spikes or not healing at all. And it doesn't help that the huge spike heals are highly RNG-dependant.

    Incremental healing would be much more useful from a hybrid than RNG spike heals. I'd like to see foul growth changed to a true HoT. Perhaps retaining some ability to trigger it for a spike heal, but a smaller one. I would also like to see it proc more reliably from damage abilities. To compensate it would need to heal for less - but could stack higher.
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  13. #13
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    What about making it so when a target has 3 stacks of fg applying another fg uses one of them as it refreshes the timer. Or would that be too OP?

    It would provide more supplemental heals but still maintain stacks for burst heals.

    This of course after they fix healing that is currently bugged.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stay View Post
    The main gameplay problem IMO is the foul growth mechanics. Playing the class as a hybrid (as it seems mainly intended), you are either not healing at all or healing in huge spikes. It is rare that a raid needs a big spike heal from a hybrid - that's what the cooldowns on the pure heal souls are for. So the defiler has the choice of mostly overhealing with huge foul growth spikes or not healing at all. And it doesn't help that the huge spike heals are highly RNG-dependant.

    Agree there needs to be more constant foul growth application.

    Imo it should be 3x chance to apply foul growth on damage,
    90% for the 30 link
    60% for the 20 link
    30% for the 10 link
    15% for the 5 link

    I also think applying a foul growth to a player who already has 3 stacks of foul growth should cause a heal (for x amount), like nooblet suggested is a good idea

    I also think that Bond of torment should also apply its healing to the clerics links

    Ghastly restoration is currently a bit pointless its just a 500 more loathsome restoration.
    I would change it from Triggers Foul growth to triggers foul growth healing as a heal over 20 seconds.

    or... spreads Foul growth on the target to 5/10 party/raid members?


    Damage bonus would also be nice at the moment in single target fights I find healing with defiler often does less dps than a Sentinel/puri using holy dots and overhear damage, seems a bit weak on damage.

    But I can't see any changes its already a hideously powerful 5 man healer.
    Last edited by Pantaliamon; 01-07-2013 at 09:07 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalothen View Post

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pantaliamon View Post
    Agree there needs to be more constant foul growth application.

    Imo it should be 3x chance to apply foul growth on damage,
    90% for the 30 link
    60% for the 20 link
    30% for the 10 link
    15% for the 5 link

    I also think applying a foul growth to a player who already has 3 stacks of foul growth should cause a heal (for x amount), like nooblet suggested is a good idea

    I also think that Bond of torment should also apply its healing to the clerics links

    Ghastly restoration is currently a bit pointless its just a 500 more loathsome restoration.
    I would change it from Triggers Foul growth to triggers foul growth healing as a heal over 20 seconds.


    But I can't see any changes its already a hideously powerful 5 man healer.
    Making it x3 still wouldnt fix it you would still have a very low chance to maintain foul growth on one person, making it a flat % for all links is better over all.

    Ghastly restoration I personaly have no problems with this ablitiy seeing how its Off GCD it make a nice heal in a pinch. also make it a heal that doesnt cut into your dps to heal the tank.

    As far as Defiler being op for 5 man content I would disagree, there are alot of fights that in its current form a defiler can NOT do for very simple reasons. its ae healing isnt sustained enough or for that matter controllable. Not having a grp cure also sets it back even more, and to go even further once they fix the bug with explosive growth defiler healing will be even worse.

    Weither people want this to be an effect raid healer or not these changes need to be made if defiler is to be taken seriously as a healer period. spaming explosive growth is not a viable or fun way to heal.

    The Biggest thing that need to change with defiler is more controll over its heals.

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