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Thread: Justicar bug? No threat!

  1. #1
    General of Telara
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    Default Justicar bug? No threat!

    Hi everyone. I am a lvl37 cleric right now and was helping my wife who is leveling her warrior (started at lvl20). I mentored down to 25 and did some dungeon for her as a tank. Did Iron tomb, RotF, Darkening deeps , everything go super smooth. I dont even finish one pull that i run to the next and start even justice them , tanking was awesome.

    Then i readjust my lvl to 28 since she turned 25 and queue up for a Deepstrike mine. Everyone ... i mean EVERYONE was pulling off me. The dps wasnt much higher then the other instance, my wife was still number one as always on her tempest but even the healer was pulling off me.

    At one moment to make a test i went alone on a mob. I did a 6 stack hammer duty, dropped a lightning hammer ,strike of retribution then proceed to my single target maccro. The mob lost around 25% of his life and then the ranger shot once with his builder for 100 damage and pulled off me!

    I tried removing EVERY buff i had, i went through and looked everybuff they had, i logged off totally of the game, waiting my character to despawn (closed the game) , went back in , buffed back up , watched again to make sure people had no "threat" stance but nothing changed. Everyone and everything was pulling of me on a whim when i did 4-5 other dungeons before that and everything was perfect, not even my wife pulled from me.

    We tried a second time with my wife (in the same dungeon) where i went in , did 2 rotation of my maccro , mob lost 30% health and she did a shock pulse and boom , she snapped the enemy right from my grasp.

    I really dont understand what is going on. 4-5 dungeons where i feel like a tanking god and then suddenly felt like if i had no threat at all!

    Is someone had this problem before?

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer Muspel's Avatar
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    I once encountered a Justicar in a leveling dungeon who was having the same problem (maybe... three weeks ago?). Despite having MoL active and doing the rotation properly, he couldn't generate any threat at all.

    No idea how to fix it, though. Did you try relogging, switching specs, or respeccing and respending your talent points?

  3. #3
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    "No idea how to fix it, though. Did you try relogging, switching specs, or respeccing and respending your talent points?"

    I did try relogging , logging off completely , deactivate my buff , switching spec.

    I didnt try to respec or respend yet, ill redo another dungeon later on an see if its fixed first

  4. #4
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    Ok played a bit around the world, gained a level etc. and we decided to do foul cascade. Dropped my lvl to 30 then tanked it.

    Everything was sticking on me like glue, nobody was able to take my aggro.

    It really seem like a bug to me, like if Mien of Leadership didnt apply its bonuses but not sure how to recreate it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchicken View Post
    Ok played a bit around the world, gained a level etc. and we decided to do foul cascade. Dropped my lvl to 30 then tanked it.

    Everything was sticking on me like glue, nobody was able to take my aggro.

    It really seem like a bug to me, like if Mien of Leadership didnt apply its bonuses but not sure how to recreate it.
    I've listed my experiences about this extensively over the past couple of weeks on these forums, but will continue with this: I have not found a way to "flip the switch" on the bug unfortunately. I've yet to find content this past week that allows me to actually hold any threat at all, even against players 20+ levels below me. It's not just "generate no threat", but it's got to be a negative generation of threat as even doing 3x the dps or more - I can't keep threat.

    Obviously, not every cleric is having the threat issue but it's quite provable (I gave a screencap showing the issue in extreme clarity) when it happens. Also, this doesn't happen when I'm in Defiler spec and clearing entire dungeons watching mobs kill themselves on my beacon. Only in my tank build.

    Bottom line: If on your first pull, mobs completely ignore you and go after your party, you may as well quit the run. Requeue and hope for the best!
    Last edited by Organic; 01-01-2013 at 11:49 PM.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched Eryon's Avatar
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    I noticed something similar to this last night when tanking Empyrean Core.

    I had some DPS able to peel mobs from me even after I had locked them on and trying to pull them back with taunts would fail.

    Same with another run in Unhallowed Boneforge.

    I was hoping it was just that the DPS numbers were an order of magnitude greater than my dmg but I was at least 1/3 of theirs so it wasn't all that far apart.

    Going to run a few more experts tonight to see if it happens again.
    "Might does not make right... It just makes it possible."

    Alekto, Cleric - Eryon, Warrior - Mause, Rogue - Casuane, Cleric

  7. #7
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Organic View Post
    Bottom line: If on your first pull, mobs completely ignore you and go after your party, you may as well quit the run. Requeue and hope for the best!
    It happened again. Was running dungeon for a while ,everything was perfect. I enter a dungeon, not able to get any threat at all. I didnt change anything and like 5 min before ,everything was perfect. People were even putting less dps then my last group with a perfect clear.

    I dont know how to trigger it... perhaps mentoring was the case for me?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkchicken View Post
    It happened again. Was running dungeon for a while ,everything was perfect. I enter a dungeon, not able to get any threat at all. I didnt change anything and like 5 min before ,everything was perfect. People were even putting less dps then my last group with a perfect clear.

    I dont know how to trigger it... perhaps mentoring was the case for me?
    REALLY wish I knew. I returned to SL so I could tank on my cleric. There's definitely a switch that's getting flipped, but not for everyone or there'd be a much larger outcry in the cleric community.

    Other than running lower level guildies through dungeons and healing a few things, I've shelved my cleric as I'm unable to generate threat in *any* scenario now. The past week has been spent leveling a rogue 1-60 to play support since that's my second favorite thing to do (and we already have several rogue tanks).
    Last edited by Organic; 01-03-2013 at 10:37 AM.

  9. #9
    Telaran Legos's Avatar
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    Default Agro issues

    Last night I did 3 expert dungeons. I was kicked out of 3. Reason: My agro was sub par. I did try my best with all I got, Used different spells, CD , DOL, to no avail. Mobs were escaping and killing people. One time I said please let me attack and get agro and all I got is I am just too bad. This is terrible. I did not use to have the problem. I am not sure if this is a bug or just as intended. I had even been thinking in trying to change some of my stats but I am not sure what to do until this is clarified. I do have some lesser with strength, I was thinking in changing it for wisdom, this may help a bit. It is just not good that I see mobs not attacking me and going after other players. Worse of all getting kicked out of the group and not being able to get your needed currency to improve your gear is really devastating. I wonder if Trion thought of this.
    Most of the experts I do are pugs and pugs have a tendency to be heartless. Guild runs are more amicable and allow a margin of error and tolerance. However most guilds are small. I like my guild and would not leave my friends just because I need gear and can not get to group for experts with them on a regular basis.
    End of rant but getting kicked as my agro was not good x 3 in a row was not pleasant at all.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legos View Post
    Last night I did 3 expert dungeons. I was kicked out of 3. Reason: My agro was sub par. I did try my best with all I got, Used different spells, CD , DOL, to no avail. Mobs were escaping and killing people. One time I said please let me attack and get agro and all I got is I am just too bad. This is terrible. I did not use to have the problem. I am not sure if this is a bug or just as intended. I had even been thinking in trying to change some of my stats but I am not sure what to do until this is clarified. I do have some lesser with strength, I was thinking in changing it for wisdom, this may help a bit. It is just not good that I see mobs not attacking me and going after other players. Worse of all getting kicked out of the group and not being able to get your needed currency to improve your gear is really devastating. I wonder if Trion thought of this.
    Most of the experts I do are pugs and pugs have a tendency to be heartless. Guild runs are more amicable and allow a margin of error and tolerance. However most guilds are small. I like my guild and would not leave my friends just because I need gear and can not get to group for experts with them on a regular basis.
    End of rant but getting kicked as my agro was not good x 3 in a row was not pleasant at all.
    Strength does absolutely nothing for cleric tanks anymore, it is completely worthless.

    Make sure you are directly hitting all enemies, use Even Justice or Censure. You will build threat through both damage and Salvation, it's better than DoL as long as you can hit the enemies.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Strength does absolutely nothing for cleric tanks anymore, it is completely worthless.

    Make sure you are directly hitting all enemies, use Even Justice or Censure. You will build threat through both damage and Salvation, it's better than DoL as long as you can hit the enemies.
    STR gives Block 1:1 and Parry as well. It's hardly useless, but Wisdom is more beneficial. It's nice to use in sigils that are waiting for appropriate drops from Raid Rifts and such to fill in the blanks (i.e. using the vendor STR essences to round out a sigil). Hardly worthless, though, as Endurance is generally king with the amount of damage we take now.

    On topic, I haven't had too many problems generating threat, but my guild leader has been having a hard time. I can't explain what I'm doing differently, if anything at all, but I do notice at some times that threat is exceptionally difficult to establish. My old splash heals used to be enough to establish initial aggro while I got things situated, but it seems that lately I need to fight for that initial threat a lot more. Once I get things in rhythm and position though, rotating my taunts correctly to help during the establishment phase of a pull, I never lose threat mid-fight.
    Last edited by Thanix; 01-05-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanix View Post
    STR gives Block 1:1 and Parry as well.
    Not anymore, try it in Justicar

  13. #13
    Telaran Legos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Strength does absolutely nothing for cleric tanks anymore, it is completely worthless.

    Make sure you are directly hitting all enemies, use Even Justice or Censure. You will build threat through both damage and Salvation, it's better than DoL as long as you can hit the enemies.
    I had used my hammers, Censure, DOL, Even Justice. I had used all I can think of and still mobs run away from me even after they initially come to me. It is just crazy. I have to run after mobs to make them stay with me. I do directly hit them.

    The amount of insults and put downs I had gotten are phenomenal. To the point of getting kicked out of groups x 3 yesterday. I did get rid of all of the strength on my neck and my one lesser. By the way I did the same expert dungeons today and finished them all as a tank but still all kinds of comments about your agro su*ks ! I did not use to have this type of troubles a few weeks back but now I see other clerics making similar types of comments in the forums and I think something has gone really wrong lately.

    Maybe Trion is trying to balance agro for higher level gear and raid types of players but the poor "little guys like me" are really taking a beating.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legos View Post
    I had used my hammers, Censure, DOL, Even Justice. I had used all I can think of and still mobs run away from me even after they initially come to me. It is just crazy. I have to run after mobs to make them stay with me. I do directly hit them.

    The amount of insults and put downs I had gotten are phenomenal. To the point of getting kicked out of groups x 3 yesterday. I did get rid of all of the strength on my neck and my one lesser. By the way I did the same expert dungeons today and finished them all as a tank but still all kinds of comments about your agro su*ks ! I did not use to have this type of troubles a few weeks back but now I see other clerics making similar types of comments in the forums and I think something has gone really wrong lately.

    Maybe Trion is trying to balance agro for higher level gear and raid types of players but the poor "little guys like me" are really taking a beating.
    The current "bugged" behavior is: If you pull the mobs and they ignore you, running for party members even when they've done nothing to establish threat of any kind, you're gonna have an intensely horrible run. My cleric in his tank gear/spec has been on the shelf since the 2.1 drop because I'm unable to generate threat, even when I do 3x the damage of other party members.

    Sounds like that's what you were having as the issue during those runs. And yes, folks are completely inhumane to "bad tanks", even when there's absolutely nothing we can do about it. I'm sure there's aggressive "eye rolling" when you say, "Sorry, it's a bug. Find another tank". Now that our lead is still MIA, I'm really not sure this will be addressed anytime soon. They can remove a skill that has a bug and can stack 20 times, but can't be bothered to resolve a massive issue that's preventing me from any progression at all.
    Last edited by Organic; 01-05-2013 at 11:34 PM.

  15. #15
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    the only thing ive found that fixes this BS when i get hit by it (which is quite often mind you) is clicking off MoL, switching specs, twice (yes, switch to 2 different specs. dunno why, but switching once doesnt seem to work) then back to tank spec. recast MoL and cross your fingers. about 90% of the time this works for me. unfortunately, there are times where it just doesnt want to correct itself. i end up switching tanking with someone else int he group. next run ill try, and everything is normal.

    its definitely annoying as hell. they jump all over disabling one spell cause its broken and suddenly OP but compeltely ignore a bug from a broken tank spell which renders the entire spec completely useless

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