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Thread: Druid & Druid Issues

  1. #1
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    Default Druid & Druid Issues

    Hey Trion,

    I'm back playing with the druid again, most of the changes are amazing btw and for the better. However I find that the druid soul is lacking slightly in terms of PVE DPS. (Although I am doing better than a shaman setup which is only ranging 7K DPS atm).

    I'm about tier 1 raid geared like on the starting line so mix of blues and have an half an active synergy crystal, my DPS ranges from 5-6K DPS and my pet from 1K DPS (ST) - 2KDPS (with fairy and 5 mobs in AOE).

    I've noticed that warriors, rogues and mages all outclass me in DPS by ALOT.

    I have defiler in my build for cleanse and spammable heal which works well, but lowers my potential DPS by 1K, so I could have overall 8K ST damage (including my pet) max but super squishy build.

    So currently in similar gear I see warriors do 8-10K DPS, Rogues shoot to 12K DPS, and my friend who is a mage (Necro) do 10K DPS and his pet doing 6K DPS, so a whopping 16K DPS... And his gear stats are lower than mine....

    I don't really want to be the most strongest soul out there with people complaining that every build needs a pet like in the previous updates/forum whining. But can we have at least some competent DPS?

    Our pets playstyle is much better, although the AOE toggles needs some adjusting as its hard to manage mid battle, but the main part is the druid attacking playstyle.

    I've always hated eruption of life, it really should be off global cooldown (you already removed jolt from global, but then you introduce a class like harbringer?!), it doesn't scale as well as it could and with the strange global cooldown differences (from the 61 point buff) you end up wasting time anyway since your so used to the 1.5 sec cooldown. Also it's useless in AOE and it should really be more useful like the shaman DOT that can become AOE since our second DOT is practically useless when a Bard is around.

    Can we have a buff like the (I think shimmering armour) that elementalists have so we can have a pseudo global cooldown reduction? currently the fighting style of the druid is clunky and all the skills only provide a slight increase in DPS it feels like your rotating a bunch of similarly damaging skills for a increase of 1K DPS? When all you really need to do is spam fervent strike and combined effort really.

    Also we lose too much DPS when the boss is moving around, why is most of our damage activated behind the boss or built into fervent strike? That makes it worse when deciding which skills to use as fervent is our main DPS skill, and if we are forced to range attack for a while I can only max 5K DPS, which happens in so many cases since Trion luvs melee.

    Sorry if my grammar is all over the place, I'm sick today :P and also sick and tired of people in instances moaning at me saying "Where's the DPS!", or "We don't need support! We need DPS!", When I am actually only DPSing -_-

    I was so happy when you introduced the solo dungeon, I could finally get gear without this harassment, but alas it can only be done once per day so I just ended up logging.

    Think about it though, I poured 61 points in druid for a pet that does 1K DPS, whats the point?

    If anyone has a working Druid build that can rival the current Necro build, I would like to know about it.

    Cheers
    Last edited by whistlingwind; 12-28-2012 at 03:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    I haven't done extensive testing with Druid but it seems quite possible to do over 8K single target self buffed with it.

    That's with a 61 Druid/15 Defiler/0 Shaman build which is probably not optimal.



    So while you might have a point that it's a lot of effort usually to get even close to Inquisitor, it's single target isn't tooooo bad. Druid AOE with the Seer pet in AOE mode is really quite good, it's not as good as a pure AOE DPS soul but it's really respectable making Druid still good for fast clearing of melee friendly content because it can switch quite easily between AOE and single target, or even support heal.


    The problem you are going to run into is that Druid is probably marked as a support/leveling soul by Trion so they deliberately keep it mostly unviable for raiding. I come to this conclusion by reading some stuff said by the Warrior dev in their forum about the WArlord soul. It's disappointing really but it's the approach they've taken.

    BTW your pet should definitely be doing over 1K dps.
    Last edited by Malark; 12-28-2012 at 04:11 AM.

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    Yeah just to confirm on a DRR with only a bard in the raid I can do 10K dps single target with Druid which really isn't too bad.

    Pet was 2.9K DPS.
    Last edited by Malark; 12-28-2012 at 04:58 AM.

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    For a melee soul , 10k is bad in full raid gear. If your using dps pet ,we are much " support"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkami View Post
    For a melee soul , 10k is bad in full raid gear. If your using dps pet ,we are much " support"
    Like I said not even sure....
    >if it's the optimal build
    >no Archon in the raid
    >it was just a casual DRR
    >I'm a clicker (only really use keyboard to move)
    >I only have 1 piece of actual raid gear (my spellpower is still quite high but no rep runes or anything like that still)
    Last edited by Malark; 12-28-2012 at 06:11 AM.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser The Relic's Avatar
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    I wouldn't call druid dps the best but druid isn't really a dps soul it's more support/dps. Usually it focuses on your faerie doing aoe or your protecter pulling adds off tank to lower the damage done to him but most famously people use the faerie to do good aoe or single target healing. It's true that the aoe buff on the faeries is hard to turn on and off mid battle as it seems Ezzie (my faerie) was too busy spamming fae blast to focus her healing into the dieing tanks last raid XD

    It's more about what sort of synergy between you and your pet you have going on for example, sometimes I run inquis/31 point druid so I do ranged spell dps while my satyr destroyer does melee dps but on my justicar/druid/shaman soul (my support) I end up melee dpsing while my seer sends fae blasts flying everywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whistlingwind View Post
    So currently in similar gear I see warriors do 8-10K DPS, Rogues shoot to 12K DPS, and my friend who is a mage (Necro) do 10K DPS and his pet doing 6K DPS, so a whopping 16K DPS... And his gear stats are lower than mine....
    Im pretty positive (although I may be wrong) but judging by most DPS meters, the Necro was doing 10k all up, with his pet doing 6k and himself doing 4k. Its not 10k+6k = 16k, it just shows the pet separately for comparison. He was only doing 10k all up including his pet.
    Last edited by Mizza; 12-28-2012 at 05:57 PM.

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    Ok, for the record I was not raiding when testing the DPS, just pugging in experts, so the DPS would be slightly higher for me and my pet if I was in a raid.

    Again the pet can go upto 2K DPS easily when there is about 5 mobs constantly, but if there are 3 or less then the Seers damage plummets and it is so hard to remove the buff that you waste time on your own spells as well as the Seer casting half as damaging spells.

    Also the Necro I mentioned was not i a raid setting either so his DPS would increase also which is still exponentially higher than mine.

    I've respecced about 50 times already and tried all the specs I can think of, druid/inquisitor DPS is 'OK', mainly for AOE DPS than anything, ST damage is still in the 5-6K damage range, which in raid setting is maybe i dunno 8K DPS?

    My current 61 druid, defiler and shaman does the same DPS as druid/inq, but has more surviveability and can dispell, which I find more useful.

    druid/shaman has the highest output but that's only 'if' you can stick with the target.

    Anyways, I typically don't join the DPS rat race but the disparity is huge. Also the roles are greatly uneven and it introduces favouritism which is annoying.

    Bards always go support, they can do 50% of the healing, but my fairy can only achieve 25% (ok not deeply tested, but the Bard always does more). So Bards are always chosen for support, even though 'I' queued as support and am in the role....

    (more of a personal gripe) I can't have a fairy up as a tank as the pet has to be upgraded twice and takes too many points. And tanking still feels like a 'forced' role unless you like waiting in queues.

    Maybe its just me but I feel the pets are'nt providing as much as I expected from a full pet class, maybe I'm still under geared? I dunno...

    I really wish they were more stronger, the many restrictions to the druid class make it harder/more annoying to play that other classes, AND other classes get to have more fun spells without stupid restrictions such as *Must be behind target*. i.e. Mages can double dip in pet souls, elementalist has pseudo 1 sec global cooldown plus 0 point sword available from harbringer which is actually quite fun, Necro's and Harbringers can turn into something interesting. I hate my 61 point abillity, it doesnt work when soloing unless you reduce DPS by using tank pet, and it works 1/3 or 1/2 times during boss fight due to range and movement and the global cooldown affects skills you can't really spam.

    I guess I'm annoyed at these things, so I'm venting abit. Sorry guys! :P

    I will test more when I get better gear and see where druid stands then.

    Cheers

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by whistlingwind View Post
    Ok, for the record I was not raiding when testing the DPS, just pugging in experts, so the DPS would be slightly higher for me and my pet if I was in a raid.

    Again the pet can go upto 2K DPS easily when there is about 5 mobs constantly, but if there are 3 or less then the Seers damage plummets and it is so hard to remove the buff that you waste time on your own spells as well as the Seer casting half as damaging spells.

    Also the Necro I mentioned was not i a raid setting either so his DPS would increase also which is still exponentially higher than mine.

    I've respecced about 50 times already and tried all the specs I can think of, druid/inquisitor DPS is 'OK', mainly for AOE DPS than anything, ST damage is still in the 5-6K damage range, which in raid setting is maybe i dunno 8K DPS?

    My current 61 druid, defiler and shaman does the same DPS as druid/inq, but has more surviveability and can dispell, which I find more useful.

    druid/shaman has the highest output but that's only 'if' you can stick with the target.

    Anyways, I typically don't join the DPS rat race but the disparity is huge. Also the roles are greatly uneven and it introduces favouritism which is annoying.

    Bards always go support, they can do 50% of the healing, but my fairy can only achieve 25% (ok not deeply tested, but the Bard always does more). So Bards are always chosen for support, even though 'I' queued as support and am in the role....

    (more of a personal gripe) I can't have a fairy up as a tank as the pet has to be upgraded twice and takes too many points. And tanking still feels like a 'forced' role unless you like waiting in queues.

    Maybe its just me but I feel the pets are'nt providing as much as I expected from a full pet class, maybe I'm still under geared? I dunno...

    I really wish they were more stronger, the many restrictions to the druid class make it harder/more annoying to play that other classes, AND other classes get to have more fun spells without stupid restrictions such as *Must be behind target*. i.e. Mages can double dip in pet souls, elementalist has pseudo 1 sec global cooldown plus 0 point sword available from harbringer which is actually quite fun, Necro's and Harbringers can turn into something interesting. I hate my 61 point abillity, it doesnt work when soloing unless you reduce DPS by using tank pet, and it works 1/3 or 1/2 times during boss fight due to range and movement and the global cooldown affects skills you can't really spam.

    I guess I'm annoyed at these things, so I'm venting abit. Sorry guys! :P

    I will test more when I get better gear and see where druid stands then.

    Cheers
    By my limited testing with druid, 61 druid/10 shaman/5 Inq should provide the best results (though this could be wrong). It would be better off having Inquisitors link the tanks/whoevers taking damage because they do much better DPS, so having defiler in there could be a waste.

    What is your rotation?

    It should go something like CE>MB>CF>Vex>LH>EoL>Fervent Spam till CE is back off cooldown.

    Order could be wrong because I havent tested druid in a while. Just check which abilities do the highest tooltip damage (also factor in the extra damage from Vengeance of the Winter Storm for melee attacks) and use them from highest damage to lowest - with CE always going first for the buff it brings.

  10. #10
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    Honestly like I said I don't think Druid is really in that bad of a position.

    Inquisitor doesn't really do that much more in a flat comparison and there's plenty of times where Druid might pull away as a quick example any time you have to line of sight and stop DPS... the pet can keep going.. if you're moving a lot...no cast times .. the pet can keep going etc.

    Maybe it needs a little tweak (which probably won't happen as I explained in my first post) but I also think that there's a general lack of real testing or willingness to really test this stuff out and we saw what happened before Storm Legion came out where people suddenly went.. oh gee Druid is actually the best soul we have for DPS ?!!? months and months later after everyone had written Cleric DPS off everyone suddenly is using Druid again because people actually got around to testing it.

    We may see that Druid scales better than anything else with a pure spellpower equipment setup as we did previously. So this means there's different things that might work with Druid e.g you might use the old conquest trinket instead of a spectral hand etc etc.
    Last edited by Malark; 12-28-2012 at 10:10 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malark View Post
    Honestly like I said I don't think Druid is really in that bad of a position.

    Inquisitor doesn't really do that much more in a flat comparison and there's plenty of times where Druid might pull away as a quick example any time you have to line of sight and stop DPS... the pet can keep going.. if you're moving a lot...no cast times .. the pet can keep going etc.

    Maybe it needs a little tweak (which probably won't happen as I explained in my first post) but I also think that there's a general lack of real testing or willingness to really test this stuff out and we saw what happened before Storm Legion came out where people suddenly went.. oh gee Druid is actually the best soul we have for DPS ?!!? months and months later after everyone had written Cleric DPS off everyone suddenly is using Druid again because people actually got around to testing it.

    We may see that Druid scales better than anything else with a pure spellpower equipment setup as we did previously. So this means there's different things that might work with Druid e.g you might use the old conquest trinket instead of a spectral hand etc etc.
    Druid DPS is really really bad, our dps should much more to make it soul worth using. If we are using a DPS pet we are not really much support anymore.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkami View Post
    Druid DPS is really really bad, our dps should much more to make it soul worth using. If we are using a DPS pet we are not really much support anymore.
    You can switch to a healing pet in two seconds, during combat.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 01-01-2013 at 10:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkami View Post
    Druid DPS is really really bad, our dps should much more to make it soul worth using. If we are using a DPS pet we are not really much support anymore.
    My milage has shown me that it's actually not that bad. If you are getting significantly less than another Cleric running any other single target DPS spec then it's either an encounter that isn't melee friendly or you need to learn to play.. yep I said it.


    Maybe it could use a buff, but seriously it's not "really really bad".
    Last edited by Malark; 01-01-2013 at 10:58 PM.

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    The Faerie DPS pet is horrible. She does such mediocre DPS, and toggling her between ST and AOE is a major pain since you need to disable her auto casts, then hit the toggle, then re-enable her auto casts.

    I much prefer to use the Satyr Defender with his taunts turned off personally. He does comparable to the Satyr Destroyer in terms of DPS, while adding some utility in the form of grabbing adds for the tank.

    For ST, use Asphodel and toggle his ST melee hit. For AOE switch to Upheaval and Satyr Sweep. In any fight with at least one constant add in melee range, Upheaval is better DPS than Asphodel.

    As far as soul points go, Defiler is fine as it adds DPS, a heal, a cleanse, a Link (if there isn't a full Defiler)... It just makes it super support, with solid DPS. You might be able to eek out a little more DPS with Shaman subsoul, but you'll lose out on a ton of support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropus View Post
    The Faerie DPS pet is horrible. She does such mediocre DPS, and toggling her between ST and AOE is a major pain since you need to disable her auto casts, then hit the toggle, then re-enable her auto casts.

    I much prefer to use the Satyr Defender with his taunts turned off personally. He does comparable to the Satyr Destroyer in terms of DPS, while adding some utility in the form of grabbing adds for the tank.

    For ST, use Asphodel and toggle his ST melee hit. For AOE switch to Upheaval and Satyr Sweep. In any fight with at least one constant add in melee range, Upheaval is better DPS than Asphodel.

    As far as soul points go, Defiler is fine as it adds DPS, a heal, a cleanse, a Link (if there isn't a full Defiler)... It just makes it super support, with solid DPS. You might be able to eek out a little more DPS with Shaman subsoul, but you'll lose out on a ton of support.

    The Seer is obviously best used in AOE but there are also some encounters where it's obviously going to be a better pet to use even in single target mode. For instance Emphaela (or whatever shes called) in Archieve of Flesh the flood will wipe out your pet if it's not on a pedastal so it is possible to position the Seer on a pedastal and set her to stay. It can be a total pain and can make running Inquisitor a muhc more attractive option, but it's still one example where the Destroyer is not the way to go.

    The Seer seems to have the best overall AOE to me so I don't use the Protector in raids or dungeons.
    Last edited by Malark; 01-01-2013 at 11:07 PM.

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