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Thread: Suggestions for the Warden Soul

  1. #1
    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    Default Suggestions for the Warden Soul

    Greetings fellow Rifters!
    Here are some suggestions I would like to share with you for the Warden soul. While most people have been happy with the current state of this healing soul, others have felt left down by it. I am open to constructive criticism, as long as it is properly explained and not just a "lolubad". Please, do participate in this thread.

    Warden changes:

    Call of the Depths replaced with Renewing Water.

    Renewing Water: 2 second cast time, ranged ability, Deals Water damage to target, heals up to 5 allies, reapplies Healing Fount.

    Dehydrate replaced with Rehydrate.

    Rehydrate: Buffs targeted ally with Rehydrate for 1 hour. Greatly increases healing done from Geyser and Renewing Water. Slightly increases healing from Healing Fount.

    Soothing Stream replaced with Healing Fount.

    Healing Fount: Buffs the Cleric with Healing Fount. Heals up to 10 allies near the cleric.

    Geyser: Now has a 20 seconds cooldown and reapplies Healing Fount.

    Obviously, it is impossible to suggest numbers in the current situation. These suggestions are mostly oriented towards changing the current gameplay of Warden which is somewhat tedious.Also, as you will notice I haven't suggested the proper reordering of the root and tree abilities. I will leave it to other peoples' discretion.

    The objective of these changes would be to create a rotation that would be somewhat easily upkeepable while being possible to break by interrupts / purges / pressure. Rehydrate is mostly there to allow Wardens to heal through dungeons more easily and more casually than they have since Storm Legion was released. Healing Fount / Renewing Water / Geyser will allow Clerics using other souls as their main to have a little AoE healing without profiting from the Warden's main "spike" abilities and to deal some damage in between heals. These same abilities, with other changes to different souls, could allow for heal/dps hybrids far more interesting than what was seen so far since Rift first came out (lol @ -icars).

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara kliknik's Avatar
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    Looks like you had put a lot of thought into your suggested changes, but I do have some criticism with our suggested changes.

    First would be the change to Dehydrate, while your current suggestion sounds good and even though dehydrate is craptacular damage in its current form, we would be loosing a dps ability putting wardens even more further behind in regards to dps/hps. Currently with bugged Chloros we (my guild) don't hardly even bother with wardens, since chloro raid healing is equivalent to wardens output, but with substantially more dps.

    Secondly changing Soothing Stream to an AE heal is a bad idea. SS has always been the wardens number 1 single target healing ability and does help as a nice buffer for tank healers while wardens are standing around waiting for raid wide spike damage.

    Third changing Geyser to a 20 second CD would not only seriously neuter our dps even further, but it would make it difficult to keep up stacks of Dangers of the Deep for that additional 5% healing while raid healing. Your change would force us to Waterjet to keep up Dangers of the Deep stacks, so during periods of heavy raid damage it would be next to impossible to even build stacks of DotD.

    In all honesty, I really think Warden AE healing capabilities are in a very good place at the moment and I can't see any reason to further boost it, especially at the expense of what little ST healing capabilities and DPS we currently have.

    The only change to wardens I could truly advocate for would be more DPS, everything else is right were it should be.
    "Overall we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There isnít a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing." - Kervik

  3. #3
    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    While I do indeed suggest the removal of some damaging abilities, which as you specified has craptacular damage, I also recommend adding a spammable, cast time ability that would allow us to use damaging abilities instead of spamming HoTs on people constantly. Also, while I do agree that Soothing Stream is a great tank healing ability, it isn't anywhere close to what it should be as of Storm Legion release. This is why I suggested an ability that could allow Wardens to heal tank in a way somewhat similar to the Chloro's.

    Thank you for participating in the thread ^_^

    P.S. Chloros are (quoting Trion) "broken" right now, incoming nerf trolololol.
    Last edited by Kyan; 12-27-2012 at 03:10 PM.

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    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    Also, I forgot to add that Healing Fount should be a stacking buff so that you can't just rebuild it instantly!

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kliknik View Post

    Secondly changing Soothing Stream to an AE heal is a bad idea. SS has always been the wardens number 1 single target healing ability and does help as a nice buffer for tank healers while wardens are standing around waiting for raid wide spike damage.
    Its currently not the number one ST healing. Its #3.

    @OP.

    Nice, but i like geyser as is. Rehydrate is neato. Healing fount seems OP.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched WildKatt's Avatar
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    IMHO the only change id like to see ( from a raiding point of view ) is that Dangers of the Deep last for 30 seconds instead of 10. Its pretty good however the time it takes to get and keep stacks up.. just isn't doable on progression stuff at this point. Once i get the gear and the ability to use it, its not such a big deal to have. Maybe 3 stacks...instead of 5
    Last edited by WildKatt; 12-27-2012 at 08:16 PM.
    HotGarbage | Healer | PRIME

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple Ezekielplus1's Avatar
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    These seem to be some well thought out ideas, but I asking for a massive overhaul probably won't happen at this point. One small change I would like to see would be for Geyser to have an AOE splash damage effect and to have the effective healing from Geyser boosted by one of the Warden's hots on the recipient.

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    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    Keep in mind, the changes I suggest are mostly towards making the Warden soul more fun to play rather than better or less efficient. Note that I am not suggesting ANY numbers whatsoever so saying something is OP is somewhat premature.

  9. #9
    Plane Walker Extrasens0ry's Avatar
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    I do like the way these requested changes come across. It would make the Warden soul a load more fun to play as compared to what it is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by kliknik View Post
    Currently with bugged Chloros we (my guild) don't hardly even bother with wardens, since chloro raid healing is equivalent to wardens output, but with substantially more dps.
    Kervik has stated that the current state of Chloro is not intended and will be fixed shortly. (http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...t-2-1-a-3.html).

    Quote Originally Posted by kliknik View Post
    Third changing Geyser to a 20 second CD would not only seriously neuter our dps even further, but it would make it difficult to keep up stacks of Dangers of the Deep for that additional 5% healing while raid healing. Your change would force us to Waterjet to keep up Dangers of the Deep stacks, so during periods of heavy raid damage it would be next to impossible to even build stacks of DotD.
    By giving Geyser a 20 second cooldown does not "neuter dps". He's giving the Warden a new 2-second cast ability that refreshes Healing Fount - and damaging abilities refresh DotD. Waterjet would only ever be used if you're on the run.
    But who knows, maybe waterjet will do more DPS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezekielplus1 View Post
    These seem to be some well thought out ideas, but I asking for a massive overhaul probably won't happen at this point.
    I'm really not seeing how these changes would be a "massive overhaul". It's simply changing the way a few abilities work. Abilities such as WoR, Monsoon, the orbs and Downpour are not being modified - as well as every other ability not mentioned. The changes Kyan wishes to implement, IMO, can't be considered a massive overhaul.


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    Plane Touched Arasaadi's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand why we'd want to go back to having damage spells with cast times when we had them changed to being instant casts. Just sayin'.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arasaadi View Post
    Not sure I understand why we'd want to go back to having damage spells with cast times when we had them changed to being instant casts. Just sayin'.
    It is a good point you bring good sir, but I have to say it is actually the exact opposite. As it is right now, healers end up casting a lot more cast time abillities than previously. Before Storm Legion came out, the gimmick specs were either "Wardicar" or "Senticar" or "Senquisicar" which of most were doing tank AND AE healing, which is, lets face it, broken. Those specs would use good ol' Doctrine of Loyalty (instant!) to heal the group for ridiculous amounts and the sentinel version could use an instant cast Healing Invocation for extra heals on tank or even Healing Breath when it got real ugly. The only somewhat less broken spec was pure warden which could put out much higher tank healing than aforementioned specs while being slightly less capable at AE healing. Needless to say, old warden was all instant except for Healing Cataract and Deluge. But that was a while ago.

    I suggested the implementation of a spammable, cast time ability so that the rotation allows for some disruption from interrupts. This change would actually fit with Trion's current mentality of "It has a blue bar, so it can be interrupted at some point". One way or another, I personally end up casting 400% more cast time abilities than I used to.

    Thank you for your participation! ^_^

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple Ezekielplus1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrasens0ry View Post
    I'm really not seeing how these changes would be a "massive overhaul". It's simply changing the way a few abilities work. Abilities such as WoR, Monsoon, the orbs and Downpour are not being modified - as well as every other ability not mentioned. The changes Kyan wishes to implement, IMO, can't be considered a massive overhaul.
    Replacing abilities names & functions is a pretty big change. It may seem small but when you factor in the need to cover every rank of the spell & how it scales with gear, you are looking at a pretty big endeavor for the dev team. I didn't mean to discount the idea, but I think at the current state of the game and the level of interaction we are (or aren't) getting from the class leads we should focus on smaller easier to accomplish changes. All constructive ideas concerning our calling should keep evolving in hopes of providing some player insight concerning the souls.
    Last edited by Ezekielplus1; 12-28-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Arasaadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyan View Post
    Stuff
    I'm not sure you understood my first sentence. I was talking purely about the damage spells within the Warden soul, not the healing spells, nor any other healing souls - since this is a Warden based thread.

    These were changed to be instants. I see no real reason as to why they should go back to having a cast time resulting in decreased mobility.

    Warden was slated to be doing roughly half the dps that an Inquisitor was, and so far they're miserably behind on that goal.

    Sure, some people didn't like the -icar specs, but there were people out there who did. Not to mention the rise of Wardicar post 1.11 had nothing to do with Doctrine of Loyalty.

    It would be nice if Warden played with a bit more leeway to allow some damage instead of only when needed to refresh Dangers of the Deep.

    On a different note, what sort of range are you expecting for this Healing Fount of yours? Bearing in mind that most self originating AoEs have a smaller range than targeted ones.

  14. #14
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Warden is fine, could use a damage boost since chloro can beat it out every time, but if you're not getting 2k dps if not 3k (when you have the GCDs to spare) in raid you are playing warden wrong. I really don't see the need for it to be a better dungeon healer when we have three other souls that can all do this handily, when warden is the only one who can cover massive raid damage. It really does need a damage buff though, it should be doing 4k easy.

    Because of all the DoTs and HoTs you can easily switch between damage and healing without negatively impacting the other. Using damaging abilities helps keep your Dangers of the Deep at 5 stacks.

  15. #15
    Shadowlander Kyan's Avatar
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    @Arasaadi:

    The only reason I suggested adding a cast time ability is to prevent other classes from QQ'ing. Can you imagine if you had a non-stop AE healing from 2 different spells and little rogues couldn't interrupt it? Beside it wouldn't affect our dps too badly, if not buff it.
    Also, the removal of the DoTs was a suggestion. I haven't Warden'd in a raid yet since I'm tanking on every bosses. What I did notice is my dreariness level spiking when playing Warden for Rifts or Dungeons. The thing is boring and tedious. I just want it to shine a bit more for every day purposes!

    While Wardicar was indeed not based on DoL, it was based on the much more OP Healing Effusion and an infinite stack of mana. No improvement there eheh.

    As for the range on Healing Fount, I am guessing a range slightly higher than that of Marked By The Light would hit the spot. Something where you can't heal everybody in Great Hunt Rift without moving anyway.

    @TheGrinnz:

    As I mention at the beginning of the thread, those suggestions go toward making the Warden a more enjoyable soul and give it a fluid base heal/dps rotation. I believe the suggested abilities fill that role somewhat correctly. I do agree with you tho that the biggest problem right now with Warden is their dps, compared to chloros, is not competitive (we will skip the whole healing part because right now chloros are OP and getting the nerf hammer soon)

    Keep in mind, my fellow cleric, that Rift was originally created with great spec sandboxing and what are the gimmick specs right now? 61s, 61s everywhere. I just wish to see different setups and I believe a large portion of the playerbase too.

    Those changes wouldn't affect the way you warden in raid that much, but it would definetely make it a lot more fun to the more casual Rifters

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