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Thread: Current State of Clerics (In respects to PvP)

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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Default Current State of Clerics (In respects to PvP)

    Now, overall, cleric should be at the very least...content, with their pvp performances.


    Sentinel, she is is a healing machine.

    Warden, my secret love (ironic since prior to 1.6 i HATED him. Despite even my complaints about it, can pack on a lot of heals, really fast. And its aoe healing is stronger than all aoe damage, aside from sab
    .
    Justi can take and pack a whollop. Yes. imo, its the weakest of the other tanks, but she provides key skills that makes her acceptable to bring as any front liner.

    Defiler...iunno. I never got the hang of it. I mean, i can bug abuse, but still do not see its usefulness and imo, has minute self preservation that does not involve mana wasting. But ive seen others out perform me quite a bit, so they must be doing something that i cant.

    Shaman(my mistress), death machine. I am a terrible dps, but just about any target that i attack, will more than likely die before I do. Ive seen a couple other shamans out there that made me rage. I mean RAGE HARD. If one is skilled at playing her, she will indeed be deadly. Get a pocket healer and go to work.

    Druid. Poor kid is a mess. BUT i have played around with him today. The best thing about the Druid, is that its running away from him, is the worst possible thing one can do. As all his damage increases in some form when your back is to him. His insta silence and sleep is pretty good. Anyone wanting to play a tactical role, would and should choose druid. The chances of you topping anything over other equally skilled players is slim, but he can provide a corner stones in picking off players if played well.

    Inqui. Burst machine as always. His survival rate is just 10 notches above nill, his natural enemy is any melee, but can do obscene amount of damage.

    Cabby. My heart. Through the good and bad, ive grown to love cabby (hated him in beta, although through hindsight, he was the best there). If one wants to break up any zerg, cabby is your man. In fact, i think at least 1 good cabby, should be in any raid. His CC is pretty awesome ( not as awesome as sab bombs which are practically perpetual, especially the silence). If you happen to be lucky enough to be healed. You can can hold an entire zerg at bay, or at least cause them to panic (as the damage has erratic burst coupled with CC if you play well) long enough for your team to mow them down. I personally play cabicar, which does take a hit in overall damage, but its worth it. I dont even think in full dps cab will rock KB charts(assuming the damage shields dont kill you after your first opening) but good cabs presence are indeed noticeable.

    Purifier...well. He exists o_o;


    However, there are still some changes that i feel needs to be addressed.

    First: Healing bug. Yes, i know they addressed it. But, i fear that the bug will come with overall healing nerfs. Problem is, overall healing is -not- that good. After they nerf blessing (and possibly faith rewarded, since mine is hitting for almost 3k) I know for sure, defiler will be a useless as i believe he is. And will struggle a bit with her upkeep. If i were to gauge her pre bug, id say she was struggling. Making spamming CI mandatory (for some) since overall options is limited.

    I believe after the healing bug fix, assuming burst isnt getting nerfed, I believe these changes should go into affects for our healing souls:

    Senti: Vigilance. I can understand since it -prevents- death that it should remain on a long CD. But 2minutes is a bit much imo. Even WITH the reset. A 1minute CD would still continue to tactical use, but make its presence, and dependability a bit more stable.

    LoR: I just dont see the use of this skill. Yes, it makes every time she casts an invocation an give an extra heal, and she seems to be all about proc of a proc of a proc healer (i guess to make the illusion of speed healing). But it being a buff just makes it cumbersome to use. And at this point, makes 61 senti (IMO) unappealing. And it doesnt heal for a lot.

    Make it a simple self buff. If you want to keep it lame. Make it so whomever receive an invocation by the caster will get the extra healing.
    If you want to make it cool, Casting an invocation has a 20% chance of causing the next invocation to be insta castable, with a 50% MP reduction.

    LoT: Some have said its bugged. I have too many debuffs on me for me too see it well. But i do know that a few times i was silence and/or stunned (those two things usually happens mostly at the same time so i can not pin point which one is doing it), it did not remove it from me (greyed out). If there is indeed an issue, i guess it needs to be addressed.

    Word of Life: Its a nice thought, but given the 10% chance of it happening (yes i know, 'healing flare assists in that quite a bit), it procing on a HB that is on CD makes it kinda...clunky? It should reset the CD of the HB as well. That would fit with the theme of fast heals.

    Warden: There is a lot that -can- be complained about with warden, but at the end of the day, they all see to be WAI, and more of a yearning for the past. So i shall not delve into it.
    What i would like, however is for the following:

    OFR needs a cast time reduction. Its en eternity to cast. And as i said in another thread, one of the only wayts of offering stable, albeit small, aoe healing to other souls. It would be nice if it were naturally 2.0, and somewhere within the tree of warden, it gets a reduction to 1.5. Situational awareness can only do so much when you are sitting there for almost 3 seconds casting something on a soul that has almost 0 self preservation abilities.

    Ripple: I dont care for the post spread as opposed to the pre spread, but i can see why its better. Thing about it is, ripple is completely useless until one gets monsoon, where smart healing would cause this not to be a sad sad ability. SS and HS are way too low to even bother using it without healing blessing (which will get nerfed soon). Its use will be much better, if it were to spread orbs as well. If not, its CD needs to be made 15 seconds. That way spreading HS and SS would be less of a useless feat without monsoon up.

    Bosom Blessing (the breast blessing ever!): I dont know. AoE heal is so much at a all time low, that one is kinda forced to pick this up. But, its just weak. I mean, beyond weak. IMO, it need a change. Allow it cause aoe healing abilities to grant an orb to the target. When struck, that orb will heal 222-245 to the target and up to 2 party or raid members. Putting the AoE back into AoE healer.

    I think with this going deep warden would be extremely beneficial, especially when chloros brought back down to Telara. And would also balance out the warden lack of survival tools (Even defiler has better defenses)

    Puri:

    I dunno. I Dont know. The biggest thing is that hes slow. Super slow. The the biggest thing to compensate him, has been nerfed. Rightfully so.

    The only things i can think of, is making every cast count.
    Make all faith skills stack and lower the cast time of Latent Blaze.
    Maybe lower the CD of GotF to 30 secs.

    Those are probably the only things i personally think should be changed for the heal souls.

    Moving on to the dps.

    I for one, like the dps souls pretty much as is.
    All of them are balanced around their damage and ability outside of possibly Inqui. But that does not mean certain things could be tweaked.

    Shaman: Shaman has 0 defenses. Rightfully so. Her damage is very high. However, her play style is very...dart in and out. Two things i would like to change:

    Ride the Lightning. I personally would like this to be a simple port. I mean, moving through a group of people, even if it does a good 1k damage, by the time you land, you're dead. Port to the other player easy peasy.

    Windwalk: 1 minute CD. No Bueno. Not with the play style. Shaman is a Sin, without all the benefit of being able to easily choose his target. Make this CD 20 seconds. The parry/dodge is useless. Would rather a damage reduction, but not necessary.


    Druid:

    Fae Extraction: Too deep in the root. I mean, 58 points? Our souls are already hard to mix, and some of these key utility keys, are just out of reach from souls they should be in (Justi).
    I say put through step in the trees and move this to as 20 points in Druid. Makes mixing him with different souls more feasible and allow him to gain its utility earlier.

    The aoe toggle has been talked to death so im just gonna honorably mention it here.
    One thing i would do is remove or reduce the healing reduction for the heal pet. All the other pets have several ways to make their damage more effective, both actively and passively. The heal pet only has Aid of forest and Intensive purpose. I find the heal reduction completely overkill.

    PS: Both Fairy and Justi heals are not registered on the boards. Fix it please.

    Cabby:
    Not a lot for him.

    He still has that very much useless shadow breach. I dont think ive ever seen it heal him outside of overworld pve. It needs to block 30% of all incoming damage as well as heal per hit for it to be useful to him. Otherwise, its a waste of a skill bracket.

    My only other complaint has been addressed by Daggy. Which is the 61 point ability. As it is now, its useless as an offensive skill, as one would have to be in reach of the target...twice, for its damage to be worth of its long animation, and it has no defensive cabilities (push back, slow, stun, etc) making it useless to use close to enemies who can spit on the and kill him. I would like it to be targeted skill, but they said no. I await to see their solution on this. But as of now, 58 cab is what i use.


    Inqui.

    Surprisingly i dont use him a lot (prefer my shaman). I dont know. He seems fine as is. Rubuke has been complained about and i see both sides being equally right.

    I still think shroud of agony is useless. If he is getting hit, hes dead. Agony is not going to thwart off anyone hitting him. IMO. Make it like seeping death, and allow it to be castable on anyone.

    I also think Armour of Treachery is useless in this soul as it does nothing but give justis another place to dump points. A forced mixture which little benefit.

    At this point, i think its time for Soul Drain to be a ranged skill.

    Contempt sure as hell needs a buff.

    After that... its fine. In fact, none of those suggestions really changes his power, just, things that annoy me. Aside from SD, i mean, previously it was justifiably close ranged, but with current meta and the introduction of disintegrate, as well as shaman aoe, not so much anymore.

    Justi

    She needs druid pull more than druid. Depending on 1 long CD pull deep in the tree limits its tactical use in comparison to other tanks. And since her heals are all but useful, i say she needs a bit more utility.

    It would be nice, too, if she got her snare back. Other than the uselessness of numerous skills she has, shes still a decent front liner. Has the potential to be mixed if, there were any real benefit to her to do it. But at the very least, since 51-54 is probably all she needs to pvp tank, she has a leg up in actually mixing in with other souls.

    Thats pretty much my opinion on the cleric from a pvp perspective. They arent bad as a whole, and each soul aside from Puri and Defiler (my opinion) play can play an effective part in all aspects of pvp if the player playing is willing to bring out their strengths instead of expecting them to do something they arent designed to do (and yes, i too can be guilty of that even by writing this posts, but i never claimed to not be a hypocrite). But i do think some smoothing out of some of the souls features, could help them be the best they can be, especially since soul mixing has practically been removed.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    I agree with the fact of inq in that we need more mobility, either in the shifting of an ability, or gaining it thru bufs. Honestly i like the idea of having a talent (maybe make it base-line.) that would add afew interesting, as well as worthwhile functions to why you would use one of the other armor buffs. Such as devption reducing our outgoing damage abit yet allowing us to cast on the go, an making treachery give us a small chance that when hit the attack is stuned/rooted for a short moment.Mind you these are just ideas of what might fit an give them more utility, there are more than this that could be done to make them have more uses over just the buffs they give. You could scrap the idea of shroud in the tree, and place a talent that buffs or otherwise grants other abilities to the armor buffs too.

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    Dude, sriously you scare me, seeing you speaking about the spec like perso. Hope you didn't make love with your computer. I get used of better epic funny post with you !
    This post also miss some Rick James so i put it for you : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNIQVYGXbM

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    Rift Chaser The Relic's Avatar
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    It's true that we need fae extraction way earlier but problem is we need through step too! Maybe make new spell for level 54? This is because through step plays a large role in pvp as I've found that more often than not players don't turn around and with the crit passive I practically lop their heads off!

    Yup faerie healer does need to not lose any healing power when she switches to aoe as I keep finding I need to reroute all healing to me mid battle in pvp but I'm dead by the time she's stopped messing around. I also think that seer should losedamage reduction too and let faerie healer be able to aoe but give them the damage reduction.

    A good idea would also be to make tricksters bluff apply to all enemies when your pet does aoe.
    BRING BACK OLD THE GREATER FAERIE DESIGN! I DEMAND CAPTAIN SHORT BACK! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!
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    Sword of Telara Shibi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Defiler...iunno. I never got the hang of it. I mean, i can bug abuse, but still do not see its usefulness and imo, has minute self preservation that does not involve mana wasting. But ive seen others out perform me quite a bit, so they must be doing something that i cant.
    I love playing defiler in PvP. To me it's the Sab of clerics (sab is my rogue PvP spec). It thrives on closely packed groups and very carefully chosen links (those warriors who charge in to take out their blues are my normal link-targets) but alone is moderately easy to take down.

    But over all, mobility, you don't need to stand still.
    Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.
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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    you spoiled wow kids need to get over this whole MOBILITY ish
    stand to cast spells take skill and is part of strategy and structure for pvp roles.

    I grew up playing a game that had 4-6 sec cast times and any spell or attack that hit you made u lose the spell.... and we STILL won fights.
    learn to kite.. and no, kite does NOT mean wait til someone hits you and then start running away bunnyhopping and casting spells on them.
    How much do you HATE BISHOPX?
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    Ascendant Eughe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    you spoiled wow kids need to get over this whole MOBILITY ish
    stand to cast spells take skill and is part of strategy and structure for pvp roles.

    I grew up playing a game that had 4-6 sec cast times and any spell or attack that hit you made u lose the spell.... and we STILL won fights.
    learn to kite.. and no, kite does NOT mean wait til someone hits you and then start running away bunnyhopping and casting spells on them.
    You old farts need to realize not everyone played wow (=゚ω゚)ノ

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    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    Inqui.

    I still think shroud of agony is useless. If he is getting hit, hes dead. Agony is not going to thwart off anyone hitting him. IMO. Make it like seeping death, and allow it to be castable on anyone.
    Me likey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eughe View Post
    At this point, i think its time for Soul Drain to be a ranged skill.
    This a thousand times, and some more.
    See you all in Wildstar!

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    Soulwalker
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    I played Defiler and nothing else when warden was nerfed and never looked back, i can put out as much healing as any sentinel pre bugged heals.

    The main point im trying to make is, play it more until you get the hang of it, realise its not a damage soul so dont bother other than throwing some bonds around if needs be. There is alot of people that seemingly dont know how to play it and it will probably end up being OP after they buff it a great deal, which will suck.

    Sure its got mana issues, but you need to work the mana return skill (cant rememeber the name) all the time, and it does take alot of getting used to.

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Indeed defiler can be played to be a very good healer, even pre bug.

    I don't agree on the "not a damage soul". It can be played in many many ways, with other souls combinations and different playstyles. Even as a heal spec 61 defiler, you can dish a lot of damages by spreading bonds and DoTs (if there are lots of packed ennemies), and at the same time provide passive healing and damage reduction.

    With 61 defiler (either played offensively of defensivvely), I would advise to have at least 2 points in puri for sign of wrath. It will be active on your links because the defiler "passive" healing mechanism is counted as single target, and of course on other people you heal. And considering the damage % increase of defiler soul, this sign of wrath passively does quite a bit of damage.

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    Ascendant BishopX's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Ailis;4091374
    With 61 defiler (either played offensively of defensivvely), I would advise to have at least 2 points in puri for sign of wrath. It will be active on your links because the defiler "passive" healing mechanism is counted as single target, and of course on other people you heal. And considering the damage % increase of defiler soul, this sign of wrath passively does quite a bit of damage.[/QUOTE]
    this is incorrect. please refraim from spouting incorrect information in the guise of truth.
    this is not the thief forums.
    How much do you HATE BISHOPX?
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    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    this is incorrect. please refraim from spouting incorrect information in the guise of truth.
    this is not the thief forums.
    ...

    Do the test :

    -Pop beacon
    -attack training dummy
    -Foul Growth stack appears on beacon
    -use Feedback
    -Sign of wrath is on the beacon

    Works on real player links aswell.

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    Ascendant Pork Star's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BishopX View Post
    this is incorrect. please refraim from spouting incorrect information in the guise of truth.
    this is not the thief forums.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Uc_nNj4I0D...ght_shrute.jpg

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    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Me likey.



    This a thousand times, and some more.
    If Shroud of Agony and Soul Drain become more useful for ranged DPS they will need to be nerfed to oblivion since it's a ST damage soul. ATM they are abilities that are very useful for soloing with Inquisitor, combined with Judicial Privilege, and occasionally can be useful for adds on boss fights.

  15. #15
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    Also allowing soul drain to be used at ranged would make the cabal version sigil of spirits (applies 5% non-physical damage increase to ten targets) somewhat redundent. If anythgin i would shift clinging souls to have it applied by bor/boj over bod, as than we have it applied faster without having to apply it by hard-casting bod.

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