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Thread: How to fix Clerics ?

  1. #31
    Prophet of Telara Mantiss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsedemise View Post
    I apologize then, I thought you were.

    It being easier is a reason to cause it to do less damage. Having 2 variants though, and easy rotation and a harder rotation, and making the harder rotation do more DPS sounds like a better answer to me.

    Lastly, increasing BoJ's damage to the same damage as BoR (unless you apply a deep Inq passive buff to it) would unbalance classes taking Inq as an offsoul.



    If MM is pathetically easy, then what does that make Inq? What's easier than pathetically easy? I'm not the best player in the game, and I don't raid 5 days a week, but neither am I unskilled. Honestly, my skill has nothing to do with the facts that I've pointed out. Additionally, I'm not whining about anything; the rest of us are having a calm discussion of pros and cons while you're throwing out ad hominem arguments.
    No, you are making a big deal about nothing, ranged dps rotations are not complex don't pretend they are. I like a lot of folks in this thread but I also challenge the whiners and exageraters who try to pretend that something is more then it really is.

    Drop this nonsense that range dps rotations are even remotely difficult and I'll play nice. Otherwise I find your points to be very off base and ignorant.

    If you don't raid or even run experts then don't participate as if you know the topics and conversations. Ask some questions and learn from those who actually use, experience and deal with the different rotations and their "difficulty" levels.

    Right now though unless your a tank or healer, nothing is difficult or complex.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  2. #32
    Ascendant Byona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsedemise View Post
    I apologize then, I thought you were.

    It being easier is a reason to cause it to do less damage. Having 2 variants though, and easy rotation and a harder rotation, and making the harder rotation do more DPS sounds like a better answer to me.
    I disagree, because other ranged souls are also just as easy, and no matter which is easier or harder, every calling must have a competitive ranged soul and melee soul. Cleric has Inquisitor as the ranged soul, you cannot make it not competitive because its easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falsedemise View Post
    Lastly, increasing BoJ's damage to the same damage as BoR (unless you apply a deep Inq passive buff to it) would unbalance classes taking Inq as an offsoul.
    Can always move Castigation to tier 4, theres a nice little gap left of Life and Death Concord, no one will want to use 2s cast BoJ.

    Im sure the devs can work something out.
    See you all in Wildstar!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantiss View Post
    No, you are making a big deal about nothing, ranged dps rotations are not complex don't pretend they are. I like a lot of folks in this thread but I also challenge the whiners and exageraters who try to pretend that something is more then it really is.

    Drop this nonsense that range dps rotations are even remotely difficult and I'll play nice. Otherwise I find your points to be very off base and ignorant.

    If you don't raid or even run experts then don't participate as if you know the topics and conversations. Ask some questions and learn from those who actually use, experience and deal with the different rotations and their "difficulty" levels.

    Right now though unless your a tank or healer, nothing is difficult or complex.
    Oh, I took you for a min-maxer that squeezes every minute amount of DPS out of their rotations, and doesn't mind making their rotation complicated in order to do so. Ranged rotations are not complicated for those that don't min-max, correct.

    I think you misinterpret my statement about not being the best player ever. I do raid, and I do complete about 30+ experts a week. I usually tank or heal though, because DPS are more dime a dozen, and it's not really my cup of tea. I do DPS from time to time, tho. If you'd like to boost the validity of your argument, though, that I'm ignorant about this, please show me a spec that does as much DPS as Inq with as simple of a rotation.

    I'd also like to point out that while the rest of us are having a civilized conversation about this, your statements (up to this point) are simply ad hominem attacks on character with no evidence provided.
    Last edited by Falsedemise; 12-21-2012 at 10:34 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falsedemise View Post
    Oh, I took you for a min-maxer that squeezes every minute amount of DPS out of their rotations, and doesn't mind making their rotation complicated in order to do so. Ranged rotations are not complicated for those that don't min-max, correct.

    I think you misinterpret my statement about not being the best player ever. I do raid, and I do complete about 30+ experts a week. I usually tank or heal though, because DPS are more dime a dozen, and it's not really my cup of tea. I do DPS from time to time, tho. If you'd like to boost the validity of your argument, though, that I'm ignorant about this, please show me a spec that does as much DPS as Inq with as simple of a rotation.
    Nope, even min/maxing rotations are easy. Sorry its ahrd for you, not everyone is created equal, simply created.

    Should look into Warrior and Rogue dps, they also consist of 2 buttons and parse around 17k and 15k respectively. If you don't know the specs... well, are you really raiding?
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    I disagree, because other ranged souls are also just as easy, and no matter which is easier or harder, every calling must have a competitive ranged soul and melee soul. Cleric has Inquisitor as the ranged soul, you cannot make it not competitive because its easier.
    I'm pretty sure that if you only allowed the other ranged souls to use 2-3 spells for 85% of their rotation, our DPS would be competitive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    Can always move Castigation to tier 4, theres a nice little gap left of Life and Death Concord, no one will want to use 2s cast BoJ.

    Im sure the devs can work something out.
    Sounds viable to me.

  6. #36
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    Guys, ignore Falsedemise please. He is just a troll trying to derail a thread he has no point in being in. There are some really good ideas being tossed around in here and we do not need a forum mod to lock it down.

    If a forum mod is reading this please remove Falsedemise posts from this thread. This is not a thread about cleric vs mage it is a thread about cleric DPS issues and ideas to fix it.

    Thank you.
    I kill more players than anyone! Just ask the last raid that asked me to heal!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivengar View Post
    Guys, ignore Falsedemise please. He is just a troll trying to derail a thread he has no point in being in. There are some really good ideas being tossed around in here and we do not need a forum mod to lock it down.

    If a forum mod is reading this please remove Falsedemise posts from this thread. This is not a thread about cleric vs mage it is a thread about cleric DPS issues and ideas to fix it.

    Thank you.
    I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not trolling though, I'm trying to add in constructive counterpoints so that devs have a more well thought out and analyzed request instead of a "this is what we want" with a bunch of +1's added to it. The OP does have a lot of good ideas, and I haven't disagreed with those.

    If you don't want constructive criticism, then it probably shouldn't be posted to a forum.
    Last edited by Falsedemise; 12-21-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  8. #38
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    Please, stop doing bad comparisons between classes.

    Mages and Rogues are relatively balanced.
    Warriors are overpowered atm (fix incoming).
    Clerics are underpowered.

    It's a FACT.

    Here, we discuss about ideas to improve it.
    Inq of course but also Shaman, Cabalist, Defiler, Druid. Maybe a bit about Justicar and healing souls too.

    I started with few ideas, now we can discuss about it and improve it to do better things with our DPS.

    I read a lot of good things, I hope a dev will read all this thread and do good things

    PS : I can't edit my first post to put all of your ideas.
    Last edited by Aethys; 12-21-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  9. #39
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    I really like the idea of adding in mobility for the Inquisitor. Seems like a realistic and viable solution to an otherwise goofy problem.

    Regardless of that fix and maybe I am wrong due to lack of ever being able to dps as a Cleric in a raid. Wouldn't Inquisitors and Shamans both need a goof buff to overall dps to bring them into that ST 15k+ dps range?

    Better yet would be to add in a "reason" beyond simple dps to add in a Shaman or Inquisitor for a raid. Just seems to me they should bring a bit more in the way of passiev support with out losing dps. Ensuring that there would be a true spot or slot for at least one kind of Cleric dps in a 20-man raid.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  10. #40
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    Default Great Ideas guys

    First off Let me say GREAT IDEAS GUYS. I would love to see Inq be competive and its need to be fair. Clerics should be last in dps every time. Secoundly to the Trolls this thread isnt about the mechanics of our class.

    I would love to see some more mobility and hope that Dev keeps thier word and give us the same dps potential as the other classes.

    I also think that the Justicars that I still think our aoe threat needs increased. When two tanks are trying to pick up adds the warrior or the rogue pulls agro off the cleric tank evertime or aoe force taunt is down. I not say we have any problem with our single target tanking or tank swap fights. I would like the seem they increase our mien or add more threat to our aoe Ablilities

  11. #41
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    seriously you lot are your worst own enemy!

    you complain about aggro generated by cleric and now we got nerfed. Now you complain we dont have enough.

    If you wanna fix clerics for god sake sort the darn healing out. Chloros out heal us and even bards make us look bad.......

    At the end of the day if there is one thing we should be good at it is healing. Now you are worried about dps?!

    If we focused on one problem at a time then maybe the devs might take notice otherwise......re role.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicjin View Post
    seriously you lot are your worst own enemy!

    you complain about aggro generated by cleric and now we got nerfed. Now you complain we dont have enough.

    If you wanna fix clerics for god sake sort the darn healing out. Chloros out heal us and even bards make us look bad.......

    At the end of the day if there is one thing we should be good at it is healing. Now you are worried about dps?!

    If we focused on one problem at a time then maybe the devs might take notice otherwise......re role.
    News live at 11! Chloro's currently have a bug which is giving them thsoe big heals.

    If a Bard makes you look bad you're doing it wrong.

    Random negativity is poo. Its up to the devs to look at all the problems and prioritize, everyone else should bring up their ideas as they come.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


  13. #43
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    Yes i know there is a problem with chloro healing.....but does that mean it will change?? Do you know something we don't. In fact that only exacerbates the problem. Regarding bard healing..its awesome! My healing is fine and nothing to be ashamed of....try not to attack me personally next time when i state the obvious.

    Actually my comments arent negative they are factual...there is a difference. However if you wanna stick your head in the sand be my guest.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicjin View Post
    Yes i know there is a problem with chloro healing.....but does that mean it will change?? Do you know something we don't. In fact that only exacerbates the problem. Regarding bard healing..its awesome! My healing is fine and nothing to be ashamed of....try not to attack me personally next time when i state the obvious.

    Actually my comments arent negative they are factual...there is a difference. However if you wanna stick your head in the sand be my guest.
    It has been acknowledged as a bug and is affecting far more than just Chloro, they are just one of the most affected. It will be fixed after the holidays.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicjin View Post
    Yes i know there is a problem with chloro healing.....but does that mean it will change?? Do you know something we don't. In fact that only exacerbates the problem. Regarding bard healing..its awesome! My healing is fine and nothing to be ashamed of....try not to attack me personally next time when i state the obvious.

    Actually my comments arent negative they are factual...there is a difference. However if you wanna stick your head in the sand be my guest.
    Not obvious, if a Bard has "amazing" heals compared to you, you are bad. Plain and simple mate the two are not even comparable. That is why a Bard is considered support and not a true healing role.

    If you alerady knew Chloro healing was a bug, why did you type something that didn't express that? Talk about trying to lie and failing hard.

    I don't do personal attacks as much as I weed out the liars. Sorry but I don't and won't tolerate your type of panic over known or false issues. You probably thought the world was ending today too.

    It didn't end btw and I'm not saying that aliens prevented it, but it was aliens.
    The mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasps nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort.
    New battle theme for the awesome racial changes: Big bouncing Bhami, bravely bounding by bizarre beasts, before battle begins.


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