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Thread: Cleric 5 man support

  1. #1
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    Default Cleric 5 man support

    So far i have found that a support soul has been necessary in most expert dungeons with the exception of a few of the boss encounters. Whether it be an undergeared healer or dps that can't avoid the bad, a support can mitigate those situations and determine the success of expert pugs. Also i have found there is much to be desired from what a cleric can provide as a support. Normally i will tank or dps and don't care much for healing but i would like to have a legitimate support build for another option when the group is failing. Defiler, for me, doesn't stand as a proper support even with the links. Active healing that breaks your rotation is still necessary and the dps is underhwhelming compared to say a rogue or mage support.
    i have put this build together and believe that it can stand as a solid support.

    42 druid/34 justicar/0 sentinel
    http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...kEl8/r9l2sF4F0

    I avoid all fervent strike talents and instead take all talents that boost SOJ in the Justicar tree. Fervent Strike doesn't produce convictions which limits your hammer of duty effectiveness. I keep life surge active and use HOD when 7 convictions are buiilt. With improved combined effort, life surge, bolt of radiance, SOJ, and HOD, this becomes an extremely easy rotation that i have found matches or outperforms that of most bards i have been in groups with. You also gain a Battle Res, Natural Dedication, and Fury of the Fae.

    As far as healing goes, I now have improved Salvation with Mien of Honor and the faerie heals. Even with the apparent drop in output of justicar passive healing, i have found that i can keep a 250-300 heal per GCD on the party constantly. This teamed up with the faerie heals is more than sufficient to back up main heals in any expert encounter. Healing breath is available if needed as well as DOL.

    The last benefit of this build is self survivabilty. My health sits at around 24k which is extremely high right now for any non tanking cleric and you have multiple CD's to protect yourself when heavy damage on the group happens to keep the healers focus elsewhere.

    Let me know what you guys think and if you have any other build suggestions, i would like to know what they are..
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2012 at 12:35 AM.

  2. #2
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    so you can now output the same amount of healing as one of the bards hots and arguably do as much damage (tho its melee so you will get creamed and require healing straining your healer even more, extra 5k health or not, a 20% hp bonus doesn't help as a cool much)
    And you have bard 225 Ap/ap aura
    and bard 1500 dmg per 3 on all
    and bard 5% dmg bonus


    now all your missing is
    5% reduced damage on the party
    5% bonus healing on the party
    10% stats on the party
    70 to all stats on the party
    1% crit on the party
    15% damage bonus
    15% run speed on the party
    7% magic debuff aoe
    5% melee debuff
    Massive armor and resist bonus on the party
    verse of joy
    oh and there powerful mobile ranged heals on cool


    I would argue full 61 druid is better because it offers a small damage bonus against Bard/chloro on some melee friendly fights / trash packs so at least things die faster, reducing the time your healer is stressed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalothen View Post

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    and put those 34 points in defiler get you a better group heal, links, healing bonus, ranged dps abilitys, 6% hp etc etc add 6 more and you get a massive touch heal? http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...kEi/U8vniyEkh0 and dispel, which is actually kinda nice to be able to dispel 6k ticking dots off players leaving the healer free during times of heavy stress (3rd boss in Exodus)
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalothen View Post

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    i clearly stated the reason i did not roll defiler is because of the active healing that is required and the loss of dps during those times. A healer shouldn't need a support that mitigates 20% damage from the tank, provides massive touch heals and dispels (i do retain a self dispel with Hidden Path) , effectively doing the healers job. i know that this isn't the bard equivalent but that wasn't the point. I want to be able to focus on dps while producing the best passive healing in the class. If i did not achieve that please let me know how to improve it.

    Also the 20% hp was not the CD's i was speaking of. Its the additional 20% and 50% healing from resplendent embrace and damage reduction by 50% with strength of the fae.
    Last edited by haybale; 12-12-2012 at 02:43 AM.

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    And if a single bard hot produces more healing than salvation + faerie hot + faerie burst, i will drop the cleric support tangent all together and finish leveling my rogue.

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    hate to say.. finish leveling your rogue.

    As for salvation.... leave it alone... really its been nerfed so badly its not even funny any more, putting all those points into a Tank tree to get a 50% bonus on a tiny heal is still a tiny heal, not to mention you need to use Justacar abilitys to get the full effect.


    Druid Soul gets 4% pet healing per point, and however much I Flame it the faerie healer does alot of healing.
    go 61 druid and you add another 76% healing to this, on top of your 168% you already have at 42 points.
    I think this will beat your output from salvation, at least after 10 points in justacar for reparation, it will beat the healing output from spending points up to Mein of honours 50% bonus

    you can also pickup the 2x spirits which add a considerable amount of damage to your pets (even the healer does 2k ST)
    44p Spirit of Upheaval gives your ranged pet 20k aoe ability


    Unable to leave salvation alone try http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...kGBiBhlkl8/r8w
    I suggest http://rift.magelo.com/en/soultree.j...GBiBhlkl8/l8t0
    Last edited by Pantaliamon; 12-12-2012 at 03:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lalothen View Post

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    Will try out the 61 druid and compare it to what i have. After looking at the percentages you mentioned you are probably right but i still want to compare.

    To your point about having to use justicar abilities, that was the reason i went so high into the justicar tree. I wanted the 30% extra on SOJ and BOR and for the BRes/10 second interrupt/Max Convictions for Hammer of Duty. I use combined effort which was improved to provide a 20% damage buff and life surge which i took talents for the 15% damage bonus and 30% spellpower bonus. After that its SOJ BOR and HOD from justicar. I intentionally did not spec into fervent strike buffs because i wouldn't use it over SOJ (less healing and no conviction generation).

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    While I agree that druid is a viable support soul for experts and 5-man settings, I completely disagree with your perception of how "support" works and why Defiler doesn't fit the role.

    Complaining that you must spend GCDs healing, detracting from your "support" simply isn't a valid complaint. Bards must spend GCDs healing, debuffing, and otherwise not attacking targets. Why should this be different for a Cleric support?

    Also, it sounds like you need to explore the following: Foul Growth proc'ing on linked targets + Feedback - Extra Battle Rez - Cleanse - Hybrid w/ Cabalist. These things make Defiler viable DPS and very useful support.

    I would argue a Cleric can "support" better than a Mage or a Warrior. Only because Archon support doesn't have substantial heals (which is almost the point of "support" in 5-man instances), and neither does BM. Chloro can't DPS as much as my Defiler can, but definitely out-heals it... which is mostly wasted over-healing if you already have another dedicated healer in the 5-man. Just sayin' defiler ain't bad if you use all the tools and recognize all the principles behind the spec. I tend to hybrid Defiler with Cabalist and focus on DPS, then Feedback when the raid needs heals (because it does a big burst, including burst on the tank) and keeping my DoTs active on mobs.
    Last edited by Patchkid; 12-12-2012 at 08:00 AM.

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    i dont believe that spending GCD's detract from my "support". i believe that it detracts from my "dps." i think defiler is overkill for burst healing that i have to spend GCD's to make use of . why shouldn't a support soul attempt to maximize dps without having to focus on the health of the party constantly. Obviously, the higher dps a group can produce the less time they have to deal with mechanics and deal with consecutive wipes.

    I have tried the defiler/cabalist method that you're talking about and the dps is pretty much in line with the druid/justicar when attacking a dummy. The difference i have found is that during an actual boss the druid outperforms because it has no wasted GCD's and heals are still consistently going out. i will say that in a situation where ranged was required, i would consider defiler but melee is possible for most fights if you pay attention to the mechanics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    i dont believe that spending GCD's detract from my "support". i believe that it detracts from my "dps." i think defiler is overkill for burst healing that i have to spend GCD's to make use of . why shouldn't a support soul attempt to maximize dps without having to focus on the health of the party constantly. Obviously, the higher dps a group can produce the less time they have to deal with mechanics and deal with consecutive wipes.

    I have tried the defiler/cabalist method that you're talking about and the dps is pretty much in line with the druid/justicar when attacking a dummy. The difference i have found is that during an actual boss the druid outperforms because it has no wasted GCD's and heals are still consistently going out. i will say that in a situation where ranged was required, i would consider defiler but melee is possible for most fights if you pay attention to the mechanics.
    The druid will not be as powerful for AoE, definitely. I can pull close to 30k AoE DPS with defiler/cabby and have heals and stuff. This spec also does ~5-6k ST DPS, which is better than Bard does for ST. It spot heals like a champ!

    But that is OK. I don't actually "like" defiler, it's very hard to play in a lot of settings, but I do feel it qualifies well in support roles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patchkid View Post
    The druid will not be as powerful for AoE, definitely. I can pull close to 30k AoE DPS with defiler/cabby and have heals and stuff. This spec also does ~5-6k ST DPS, which is better than Bard does for ST. It spot heals like a champ!

    But that is OK. I don't actually "like" defiler, it's very hard to play in a lot of settings, but I do feel it qualifies well in support roles.
    Defiler is a superior role for support in a 5 man.

    The damage reduction from links alone is amazingly overpowered.....increasing an undergeared tanks mitigation by 25%...thats just insane.

    Better single target and aoe dps than the druid/justicar hybrid you have listed, plus the benefit of staying at range rather than relying on being in melee to be effective.

    Defiler....more dps, more heals, more damage reduction, talents that make your tank virtually unkillable, better utility, and ranged friendly. Did i miss anything?

    If you insist on having better passive heals while dpsing, role 12 justicar as one of your off souls for salvation, reparation, and righeous mandate. It will still solidly outperform any druid version of support.
    Last edited by stefe; 12-12-2012 at 01:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    If you insist on having better passive heals while dpsing, role 12 justicar as one of your off souls for salvation, reparation, and righeous mandate. It will still solidly outperform any druid version of support.
    16 Justi for Even Justice, it will provide a lot of healing through Salvation and RM in aoe

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    16 Justi for Even Justice, it will provide a lot of healing through Salvation and RM in aoe
    This would cause you to spec 60 defiler instead of 61. Dropping the 61 point defiler cd would be a bad trade off for picking up a melee attack with a build whose strength is partly being ranged. If you wanted to go 16 justicar to get even justice, might as well go druid imo.

    I tried one dungeon as 12 justicar, im not 100% sure its worth giving up putting those points into inquisitor for higher damage and spell power, or warden for the damage/heal/absorb bonuses along with the aoe hot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    This would cause you to spec 60 defiler instead of 61. Dropping the 61 point defiler cd would be a bad trade off for picking up a melee attack with a build whose strength is partly being ranged. If you wanted to go 16 justicar to get even justice, might as well go druid imo.

    I tried one dungeon as 12 justicar, im not 100% sure its worth giving up putting those points into inquisitor for higher damage and spell power, or warden for the damage/heal/absorb bonuses along with the aoe hot.
    Sorry I was skimming and thought you were talking about the druid build

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    Quote Originally Posted by haybale View Post
    Let me know what you guys think and if you have any other build suggestions, i would like to know what they are..
    I think you just ran a dungeon in an average levelling spec, but if you finish the dungeon who cares how average it is.

    IMO deep druid or defiler are better options. Druid is the lazy option (pet heals you dps), defiler is better but harder to use effectively.

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