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Thread: Defiler taking ons of dmg, warrior's fault?

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    General of Telara Dyeus's Avatar
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    Default Defiler taking ons of dmg, warrior's fault?

    Been doing defiler in experts with my guild and last night I had to stop using my link on the tank or risk dieing.

    Previously, I had no problem having links up on the entire group with a rogue tank. Last night we had a warrior tank, and just one link (even the 20% or 10%) on the tank would cause me to die very quickly even blowing through my shield in 1-2 secs.

    Has anyone else been having problems with taking too much dmg through links? Is it just warrior tanks, as I have heard their mitigation sucks atm compared to other classes? What is it like in raids, can you not do both the 25% and 20% on the tanks and instead have to resort to only one link or lesser links?

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    Ascendant Solaxys's Avatar
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    It's most likely the damage taken by warrior tanks in comparison to the other tanks.
    I would not use defiler links on any undergeared tank or an average geared warrior tank.
    The main healer, in that case, would theoretically have two people to constantly heal rather than just one.

    Instead, use defiler spot heals, and keep up foul growth stacks.
    Use your links on the healer or other melees to soak some of the collateral damage such that your healer has more focus on the MT and less on the raid.

    Hope that helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyeus View Post
    Been doing defiler in experts with my guild and last night I had to stop using my link on the tank or risk dieing.

    Previously, I had no problem having links up on the entire group with a rogue tank. Last night we had a warrior tank, and just one link (even the 20% or 10%) on the tank would cause me to die very quickly even blowing through my shield in 1-2 secs.

    Has anyone else been having problems with taking too much dmg through links? Is it just warrior tanks, as I have heard their mitigation sucks atm compared to other classes? What is it like in raids, can you not do both the 25% and 20% on the tanks and instead have to resort to only one link or lesser links?
    right now warrior tanks are about 10% behind rogue/cleric tanks in mitigation. so that translates through your 20% link to 2% more damage to the defiler compared to a cleric/rogue tank(not including the talent to reduce link dmg because i'm lazy).

    i could be horribly wrong here, but i don't see taking 2% more damage from the link was the direct cause.

    hopefully someone will have a better answer for you

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    Anc
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    Yep, its the warrior mitigation problems. The link gives you 25% of damage after its mitigated, so when you have wars eating the whole thing it starts to hurt. When i get a war in my group I keep the 20% link on them and them spam the living hell out of loathsome restoration to keep my husk of indifference up. It does the trick but its soooo annoying.

    Theres also the chance that you are putting links on the dps and they are standing in things they should not.

    Edit: which expert were you doing? The one mechanic in foundry that puts the link on players and they have to run together HURTS if the tank gets linked to some dps and they do not get together like right away. I wont even link them for that fight at this point.
    Last edited by Anc; 12-04-2012 at 10:35 AM.

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    Prophet of Telara kliknik's Avatar
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    I run defiler 40 def/36 cab/0 just as support heals and always have my 20% link up on our warrior tanks and normally don't have problems with to much incoming damage. I always make sure to have up bond of torment and Siphon Vitality. Salvation from the justi 0 point helps a ton to in keeping your health pool up.

    Was it a specific dungeon or encounter that you are having problems with? or does it seem to be a problem in general. what spec are you running, do you have cardial conversion and scarred heart? I have also found running greater essences with shield procs help a ton to.
    "Overall we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There isnít a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing." - Kervik

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    General of Telara Dyeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anc View Post
    Edit: which expert were you doing? The one mechanic in foundry that puts the link on players and they have to run together HURTS if the tank gets linked to some dps and they do not get together like right away. I wont even link them for that fight at this point.
    We were doing Foundry trash when I was almost dieing. Switched to Inq by the second boss. And the only link I had at the time was on the tank, started with 25% and worked my way down to the 10% one then just gave up and linked the healer and the melee instead. Had no troubles with linking the entire group in Archive with a rogue tank.

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    Ascendant Solaxys's Avatar
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    Is the warrior tank using the top-mitigation spec for each scenario?
    Are they prioritizing the stats right?
    Are they paying attention to all the mechanics rather than taking them like most tanks tend to do, as they sport the ego of "Oh I have x health, I can manage"?
    Managing CDs effectively? Keeping all the debuffs on the bosses promptly?

    There's a lot of things about warrior tanking that's far from the intrinsic -10% mitigation in comparison to other tanks.
    Last edited by Solaxys; 12-04-2012 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyeus View Post
    We were doing Foundry trash when I was almost dieing. Switched to Inq by the second boss. And the only link I had at the time was on the tank, started with 25% and worked my way down to the 10% one then just gave up and linked the healer and the melee instead. Had no troubles with linking the entire group in Archive with a rogue tank.
    which trash grp was it? there are a couple caster mobs in the frist couple grps of trash that do a massive ae and if there are 2 do insane dmg if the tank stand in it.

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    Prophet of Telara kliknik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post
    Are they paying attention to all the mechanics rather than taking them like most tanks tend to do, as they sport the ego of "Oh I have x health, I can manage"?
    Hahahaha so True!!
    "Overall we want the various callings to be competitive with each other in their comparative roles. There isnít a mandate that Rogues do more damage than Warriors or that Mages be the best ranged damage in the game. Ideally we would like to see players with equivalent skill, gear, planar attunement, buffs etc be equally effective at damage, tanking or healing." - Kervik

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    Are you full defiler? Did you have up your buff that increases healing and absorption instead of the damage buff? Were you using all of your correct spells and buffs? I have ran defiler in many experts with the entire group linked and almost never take any damage.

    Casting any heal reapplies your shield. Are you keeping the tank hotted? Try cycling some extra heals into your rotation if the tank is squishy such as soothing stream, healing breath, or your group aoe heal.
    Last edited by stefe; 12-04-2012 at 11:43 AM.

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    Ascendant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post
    Is the warrior tank using the top-mitigation spec for each scenario?
    Are they prioritizing the stats right?
    Are they paying attention to all the mechanics rather than taking them like most tanks tend to do, as they sport the ego of "Oh I have x health, I can manage"?
    Managing CDs effectively? Keeping all the debuffs on the bosses promptly?

    There's a lot of things about warrior tanking that's far from the intrinsic -10% mitigation in comparison to other tanks.
    Lets not make it more complicated than it is warrior tanks have 10% less mitigation than other classes thats really all it comes down to.

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    Plane Walker Hijati's Avatar
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    The bottom line is that defiler's are not viable right now. They need a lot of work to make sure that the cleric can live through the damage. There has been almost no balancing changes to this because people simply do not use the spec in raids because your cleric dies every time not matter what. Once this is balanced we will be able to use it. Right now you can use it but at the risk of a ton of damage on you.
    I hold everyone back!!!
    Hijati-60 Cleric, Hijitity-60 Warrior, Britania-60 Mage, Lizvana-60 Rogue
    Grim Awakening 2/4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    Lets not make it more complicated than it is warrior tanks have 10% less mitigation than other classes thats really all it comes down to.
    that 10% more damage they take equates to 2.5% more damage to the defiler (even less if you include talents).

    you really think that ~2% more damage the defiler takes because the tank is a warrior is the reason the OP died incredibly quickly with said warrior tank?

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    Anc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyeus View Post
    We were doing Foundry trash when I was almost dieing. Switched to Inq by the second boss. And the only link I had at the time was on the tank, started with 25% and worked my way down to the 10% one then just gave up and linked the healer and the melee instead. Had no troubles with linking the entire group in Archive with a rogue tank.
    Was it the trash that blows up doing massive amounts of damage if you don't get out of the bubble? I had this happen last night too, rogue tank would not move for the f'n life of him out of the stupid aoe. Just stood there like a newb eating it and typing in group chat that he cant see whats hitting me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hijati View Post
    The bottom line is that defiler's are not viable right now. They need a lot of work to make sure that the cleric can live through the damage. There has been almost no balancing changes to this because people simply do not use the spec in raids because your cleric dies every time not matter what. Once this is balanced we will be able to use it. Right now you can use it but at the risk of a ton of damage on you.
    Well in raids its less of an issue, there are raid healers there to help heal you if your links are doing damage to you. You have a massive insta heal, and its very mobile.
    Last edited by Anc; 12-04-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Hijati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anc View Post
    Well in raids its less of an issue, there are raid healers there to help heal you if your links are doing damage to you. You have a massive insta heal, and its very mobile.
    It is a major issue in raids still.
    I hold everyone back!!!
    Hijati-60 Cleric, Hijitity-60 Warrior, Britania-60 Mage, Lizvana-60 Rogue
    Grim Awakening 2/4
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