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Thread: Stat weightings (CP particularly)

  1. #1
    Plane Touched
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    Default Stat weightings (CP particularly)

    So SL has been out for a couple weeks and I was wondering if anyone did any testing on how crit power weighs up in comparison to SP and Crit Chance.

    Im assuming it will differ based on different specs (and of course your %crit chance), with specs like shammy (high amount of crits due to RoTN) having a higher stat weight than say druid (which has less crits overall)

  2. #2
    General of Telara Dyeus's Avatar
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    For healing, crit/crit power does not stack well against SP, imo. Crits are nice, but as a healer I don't want to rely on crits to get the job done (excluding when I use Flashover, then CP is infinitely better than CS).

    I don't really DPS, so I dunno how they stack up. From what I hear, CP and CR are kinda meh atm.

    edit: For shammy, due to RoTN, CP would be a little better than usual, at least VS CR. Inq is our highest ST DPS atm though.
    Last edited by Dyeus; 12-04-2012 at 09:33 AM.

  3. #3
    Champion
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    Im making an assumption that crit power is currently garbage compared to spell power, as it is only going to apply to our pitifully low crit chance that we currently have.

  4. #4
    Ascendant Solaxys's Avatar
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    Rule of thumb:

    Primary Focus Stat > Primary Stat > Crit Power > Secondary Stat > Crit Chance.

    (So SP/AP > Str/Dex/Wis/Int > CP > Str/Dex/Wis/Int > Crit Chance)

    1. Crit scales very poorly; however it rises dramatically (10 - 20% depending on what roles you use) in raid settings - thus it should never be of focus

    2. Spell Power should be treated over Wis/Int (Cleric/Mage respectively), however should the conversion work out better with Wis/int (C/M respectively), then you'd go with the primary stat

    3. As Spell Power rises, minor losses in SP for average increases in Crit Power should be considered; as one stat rises, the others become more and more important (not just due to diminishing returns, but as well as scaling)

    Caveat:
    - This is a generic rule that works for all specs, technically; yet, to min-max, it will vary per spec.

    Like for Inquisitor, CP's weighting is probably greater than for Purifier.

    - Weighting isn't that hard: with a normalization of 1 = SP, 0.8 = Wis/Int (C/M respectively), 0.5 = CP, 0.3 Int/Wis (C/M respectively), ~0.25 Crit Chance
    (Again this is variant upon spec, and how much you have of one stat in comparison to the other)

    I am not a mathematician. This is all a bit of theory and a bit of testing on dummies; so definitely subject to inquiry and criticism.
    Hope it helps.
    Last edited by Solaxys; 12-04-2012 at 12:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefe View Post
    Im making an assumption that crit power is currently garbage compared to spell power, as it is only going to apply to our pitifully low crit chance that we currently have.
    you realise that Inquis and Shaman have an effective Crit of around 40% even tho the tooltip on your stat has something like 14-15% right?

    There are a lot of abilities in our DPS trees that raise the chance of crit or cause a crit.

    I have just started building a Crit source machine that i will test against and we are finding crit power seems to have a impact - but until I have time to do parses I have no data to back up my assumptions that crit power is going to become very important very quickly.
    Undecided! P90 Cleric | 9/9 FT-EE | 4/4 GA | 3/3 IG | 5/5 PB | BoB 2/4

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Very difficult to give accurate stat weightings at the moment, as no ones settled in to average stats yet. CP and CR are particularly finicky as they are directly correlated with each other, even more so that SP.

    Dirty unchecked math gives me a few ratios with the following assumptions
    Raid buffed crit +10%
    Self buffed crit +10%
    CP rating buffed +90points (raid flag and feast? not sure on exact numbers)
    Crit rating buffed +250points (70 from bard, 70 from archon, 60 from pot, 50 from reso)

    Base of 200 CP 1600 Crit = 2.6:1 CR/CP ratio
    Base of 700 CP 2800 Crit = 2.54:1 CR/CP ratio
    Base of 200 CP 1200 Crit = 2.34:1 CR/CP ratio
    Base of 400 CP 1200 Crit = 1.99:1 CR/CP ratio

    But if you remove the percentage buffs from raid, or play a class that doesn't get many if any percentage buffs it drops quickly
    Raid buffed crit +0%
    Self buffed crit +0%
    CP rating buffed +90points (raid flag and feast? not sure on exact numbers)
    Crit rating buffed +250points (70 from bard, 70 from archon, 60 from pot, 50 from reso)

    Base of 200 CP 1600 Crit = 1.09:1 CR/CP ratio
    Base of 700 CP 2800 Crit = 1.39:1 CR/CP ratio
    Base of 200 CP 1200 Crit = 0.86:1 CR/CP ratio (crit better here)
    Base of 400 CP 1200 Crit = 0.77:1 CR/CP ratio (crit better here)

    So it swings quickly, and the value of CP is highly invested in being raid buffed and/or playing a class that has a large crit % bonus.

    As far as SP goes, my gut tells me it'll still be better than CP and CR but I haven't done any hard maths on it. The relatively huge increase on base damage of abilities at 60 will need to come into play there, and some quick checking at 60 in inquisitor had my base damage on BoR at about 30% of total damage, which makes it no longer trivial.

    My plan is currently just to worry about upgrading tiers of gear, focusing on essences of the highest tier then doing SP > CP > Crit until I get fully expert geared, then I'll reassess my stats and figure out the ratios for raid drops and 240 IS lessers as that's where I won't want to accidentally get an inferior upgrade.

    All math included is as is, no guarantee, done in excel while bored. I always suggest you check any math done yourself or have someone you trust validate it before you make any lasting changes to your character or gear.

    Oh yeah, here's some psuedo definition for functions used:
    f(CP,CR) =((1.5+(CP+RaidCP)/2800)*(((CR + RaidCR)/12600)+Raidcrit+SelfCrit))+(1-(((CR+RaidCR)/12600)+Raidcrit+Selfcrit))
    Ratio = (f(CP+10,CR)-f(CP,CR))/(f(CP,CR+10)-f(CP,CR))

    f(CP,CR) represents average multiplier from crits
    Ratio is the gain from 10cp increase divided by the gain of 10cr increase

    If you see any place I slipped up please let me know

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaxys View Post

    3. As Spell Power rises, minor losses in SP for average increases in Crit Power should be considered; as one stat rises, the others become more and more important (not just due to diminishing returns, but as well as scaling)

    Hope it helps.
    This is key here, wish I had expressed it in my post. Spell power, Crit, and Crit power each increase the effectiveness of each others stats, so if you ever go over the deep end on one stat it'll eventually benefit you to start focusing on the other stat.

    However this time, as opposed to balancing two stats, you get to balance three!

    I also like Solaxys' weighting by priority, that weighting will serve for 90% of the people playing. By the time you would want to start getting more concerned on the specific numbers, you'll be at a point where your stats are stable enough that you can get an idea of your ideal ratios for upgrades.

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