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Thread: Is Cleric Dps Really So Bad?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply they could address those concerns in the same spec.

    As far as "super-tight enrage timers" go, those are generally more a function of your healing composition than your dps performance. Sure, maybe you have a few slackers, but what if you cut back a full healer and told your other healers to play better? Even if converted into a poorly-played dps, switching a Puri or Sent to dps is at least 8k.

    It's possible Trion could make an enrage based around needing....500 dps more than what clerics can do, but I really doubt it. You're talking sub-1% tuning on enrage.
    yea ofc you can win an ancounter in different ways. With cutting healers, if you have better healers than other guilds or more hp or for whatever reason you can cut a sent.

    But mages are, what 1-2k dps ahead? If you get 5 dpsers to swap to mages from clerics you gain 5-10k dps or about. That is not enrage tuned "sub-1%". But yea we havent seen tight enrage timers yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr3onion View Post
    yea ofc you can win an ancounter in different ways. With cutting healers, if you have better healers than other guilds or more hp or for whatever reason you can cut a sent.

    But mages are, what 1-2k dps ahead? If you get 5 dpsers to swap to mages from clerics you gain 5-10k dps or about. That is not enrage tuned "sub-1%". But yea we havent seen tight enrage timers yet.
    Mages are not 1-2k dps ahead.

    Nothing has buffed mages since beta.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Mages are not 1-2k dps ahead.

    Nothing has buffed mages since beta.
    What has beta got to do with anything? :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwharland View Post
    Just a quick check from this video: http://www.twitch.tv/qarlsberg/b/341405939

    For Zaviel, I see that #5 on your dps chart is a rogue at 9.8k. Our last Zaviel we ran two DPS clerics and one of them interrupted. We had a cleric at 9.8k (20dps higher than your 5th rogue =P) and the cleric who interrupted was at 9.2k. So even in a different crowd I think our clerics could crack the top 5 (Our order was Rogue, Mage, Cleric, Mage, Rogue). We only run one chloro so no double WG for us =/. Now, it is worth noting, as Byona said, that we're not going to be top 3 and I find it interesting that your top dps was 10.9k and so was ours. In fact our top 5 read almost the same dps!!! The sole exception is we had a cleric crack in there.

    For another quick comparison I can only see HPS rankings from whitelady's stream on Gangnum and Gelidra but your raid dps is the same as ours on both of those fights. For Gelidra we have clerics at #5 and 6 near 11k (one of them puts soul drain on adds the other doesn't and the ST one is higher). For Gangnum we have the same cleric culprit at #5 behind all the mages LOLOLOLOL stand still fight mages. So is he ever going to be #1 with the current class balance, probably not but well worth the raid spot given the flexibility of clerics, CS, and consistency of their DPS (for example, no matter the fight he's in top 5 where as the other classes bounce up and down).
    That video is history where we were still learning, unfortunately Qarlsberg did not stream our last raid, where Haipz is doing 12k on Zaviel. However i will respond to this thread with our next week raid on Wednesday with all the parses and show you where we stand in comparison.

    Also you seem to be content with being 5th or something like that, never reaching the top. That is not balance.
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Mages are not 1-2k dps ahead.

    Nothing has buffed mages since beta.
    Could you please tell me your best dummy parse on live?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    You could beat any raid boss in FT with all of your DPS as clerics.

    The problem is exaggerated on these forums quite a bit, and certain soft enrage mechanics really favor the burst of Inquisitor.

    On beta we were equal to rogues, and warriors/mages were slightly ahead (Warriors using melee spec.) Nothing has changed to my knowledge to noticeably affect this, so what you will see is Rogues pulling ahead on heavy movement fights, but even then many of our mobility issues in Inquisitor has been addressed.

    Aggressive Renewal, Dehyrdrate, Marrow Harvest: all instant-cast abilities ready to use when you are forced to move, and even then it's not always going to be those; you could have Sanction Heretic, Scourge, or a BoD proc available. Again, there is still a gap in mobility from cleric to rogue, but the difference really isn't that much.

    Warriors will fall behind if a fight is melee-unfriendly.

    Mages at the moment have access to the most options in terms of addressing mobility, target switching, and burst requirements. However, their top dps still isn't that much better than a cleric. Back to my original assertion: you can run ALL of your dps as clerics, and as long as they understand how to properly play Inquisitor, you will beat any enrages.

    Any talk of "benching clerics based on bad dps" just means your raid as a whole needs to stop slacking, and that cleric needs to learn to dps better. They are not the issue, if they are playing their spec properly.
    You are right about Cleric not being bench worthy, but the problem is balance here. As i said to Bohr, being happy with the fact that you will never be in the top but you will always enjoy your 5th and so on is not balance. Balance should be skill puts you at the top, not class.

    You are also right about Rogues being equal to Clerics on testing, but on live thats not true, they've come up with a hybrid that puts them at the top on many fights.

    To be honest my solution would be to bring Shaman or Druid up, why is Shaman doing almost equal to Inquisitor on a dummy parse? meaning lower in a real situation with disconnects. Right now Warriors are being looked at and boy oh boy, their buff is significant, go check it out on PTS, they went from ~equal dummy parse to 2k higher. I dont want Clerics to be forgotten with the buffs like we saw in Chocolate Rift, that is all.

    I want to remind everyone that we are already not at the top, we are pushing to the limit to reach the average, so while other classes may be getting buffs, please don't leave Clerics behind.
    Last edited by Byona; 12-02-2012 at 03:32 AM.
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  7. #22
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    We're semi ok atm, but we wont be after the next couple or tree patches buff all other classes as per usual while we sit around waiting, getting the occasional pvp nerf (because everyone cares about pvp amrite) and find our selves 20-30% behind again and then we'll wait a few months for a bandaid "fix" to bring us back where we're now on release (competitive but with no chance of being on top until the other classes get yet another round of proper buffs).

    [Edit]
    Last edited by Thorne25; 12-03-2012 at 01:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    To be honest my solution would be to bring Shaman or Druid up, why is Shaman doing almost equal to Inquisitor on a dummy parse? meaning lower in a real situation with disconnects. Right now Warriors are being looked at and boy oh boy, their buff is significant, go check it out on PTS, they went from ~equal dummy parse to 2k higher. I dont want Clerics to be forgotten with the buffs like we saw in Chocolate Rift, that is all.
    Shaman's AoE needs to be neutered if it is made top ST dps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byona View Post
    You are right about Cleric not being bench worthy, but the problem is balance here. As i said to Bohr, being happy with the fact that you will never be in the top but you will always enjoy your 5th and so on is not balance. Balance should be skill puts you at the top, not class.

    You are also right about Rogues being equal to Clerics on testing, but on live thats not true, they've come up with a hybrid that puts them at the top on many fights.

    To be honest my solution would be to bring Shaman or Druid up, why is Shaman doing almost equal to Inquisitor on a dummy parse? meaning lower in a real situation with disconnects. Right now Warriors are being looked at and boy oh boy, their buff is significant, go check it out on PTS, they went from ~equal dummy parse to 2k higher. I dont want Clerics to be forgotten with the buffs like we saw in Chocolate Rift, that is all.

    I want to remind everyone that we are already not at the top, we are pushing to the limit to reach the average, so while other classes may be getting buffs, please don't leave Clerics behind.
    Is that warrior spec a ranged one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Shaman's AoE needs to be neutered if it is made top ST dps.
    So does Riftblade.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ak1230 View Post
    Is that warrior spec a ranged one?
    No, its Riftblade.
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  12. #27
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    For all you seasoned raiding clerics out there, after the PTS warrior buffs come live, will it be difficult to serve in a raiding dps role as a cleric? E.g., will we get relegated back to full time heals or tanking? Any opinions on the matter?

    I'm having extreme difficulty choosing between my warrior and cleric for SL -- I enjoy healing every now and then (and it's what I raided as 90% of the time in Chocolate Rift) and I love the versatility that the cleric provides; but this time around i'd like to focus a bit more on the dps side of things. Wondering if I would be better served focusing on my warrior or my cleric.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGrinnz View Post
    Shaman's AoE needs to be neutered if it is made top ST dps.
    I do not disagree with this statement. I mean, inquis aoe is craptacular at best, even if you take the time to scourge spam + CoO + SD. Whilst shamans AoE is not only easier to operate but parses incredibly.

    I dont know if thats a part of the melee refund or not but the range tax + ST tax is kicking inquis aoe ***. Not that i see that as a bad thing.

    But since shaman ST is not greatly above inqui (by my parses although i am still on gear progression), i guess that warrants its current aoe prowess.

    That still leaves druid though. Is it being penalized for for its buffs and heal pet? Because it takes a lot of set up to switch from AoE to ST in which is not superior in either (though not terrible, again, at my gear grade). Or is its solo superiority being counted.

    :shrugs:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Najjynn View Post
    For all you seasoned raiding clerics out there, after the PTS warrior buffs come live, will it be difficult to serve in a raiding dps role as a cleric? E.g., will we get relegated back to full time heals or tanking? Any opinions on the matter?

    I'm having extreme difficulty choosing between my warrior and cleric for SL -- I enjoy healing every now and then (and it's what I raided as 90% of the time in Chocolate Rift) and I love the versatility that the cleric provides; but this time around i'd like to focus a bit more on the dps side of things. Wondering if I would be better served focusing on my warrior or my cleric.
    I fail to see how WARRIOR changes affect CLERIC dps. I think we have all agreed that clerics can dps in a raid great.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reticularize View Post
    I fail to see how WARRIOR changes affect CLERIC dps. I think we have all agreed that clerics can dps in a raid great.
    so if warriors could do 500000 dps you don't see how that affects cleric's wanting to DPS in a raid?

    that's an exaggeration but it still applies, no one wants to take less than optimal dps classes in a raid

    every class must be equal or the lowest class(es) will be relegated to non-dps functions only

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