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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Sanction is a melee attack (apparently)

  1. #1
    Telaran Kereon's Avatar
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    Default Sanction is a melee attack (apparently)

    Hey,

    So I was playing around with my inquicar build and noticed something odd, purpose returning mana when it shouldn't (standing at range, etc). Turns out the first tick of sanction (the dot left behind by Sanction Heretic) is causing it. I guess it is considered a melee attack ability.

    Not exactly a gamechanger, but it's still a very unexpected way to get back some mana while standing at range. One tick is small, but if you time it, you might get two ticks because of the inquisitor 4-piece bonus. Plus, this thing actually scales. With my stats, one tick is about half the total yield of Aggressive renewal (more with raid buffs). It doesn't lower dps, it builds convictions, and it's available every minute on fights where you're stuck at range.

    There was a thread advocating a detailed 'tooltip' list which could give us every otherwise hidden data (HC range&center, MoH scaling, spell/attack categorizing...) and I think this should make the cut.

    Anyway I thought it was worth sharing.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara Atropus's Avatar
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    Soul Drain counts as melee too.

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    Telaran Kereon's Avatar
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    Well, Soul Drain and Jolt are both melee-range spells so it is (somewhat) expected that they will work.

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    Plane Walker The Witchking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropus View Post
    Soul Drain counts as melee too.
    No.
    Soul Drain is a SPELL that is cast in "melee" range. It is not a melee attack.

    Zinbik has gone over this many, many times about the difference between a spell and a melee attack.


    Basically, if the tooltip says "deals Weapon Damage" or is based on your weapon - it is a melee attack.. if not, it's a spell. simple as that.

    Some spells have a short casting range (some would say "melee" range) such as Soul Drain - however it does NOT use a weapon damage calculation - therefore is a spell.


    The bug you're experiencing with the Sanction dot, i can't explain. However if it's true, it's not working as intended. The Sanction part is most definitely a spell.

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    RIFT Guide Writer usman's Avatar
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    Sanction and Soul drain have always facilitated melee attack procs, like purpose, or the old version of the asphodel's primal beacon.
    Ambi - Cleric - Apotheosys.


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    Plane Walker The Witchking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usman View Post
    Sanction and Soul drain have always facilitated melee attack procs, like purpose, or the old version of the asphodel's primal beacon.
    Ok, i misunderstood what Atropus was trying to say. He meant that Soul Drain triggers Purpose (when it shouldnt) - i thought he was saying Soul Drain was a melee attack.

    I'm happy enough with Soul Drain activating the mana regen, but Sanction is pretty weird.

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  7. #7
    Telaran Kereon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witchking View Post
    No.
    Soul Drain is a SPELL that is cast in "melee" range. It is not a melee attack.
    Jolt and Soul drain may be melee-range spells, but they trigger Purpose (and Ageless Ice, which means infinite mana in a BnJ build). It it my opinion that this is working as intended and the tooltip should read 'melee attacks and spells'.

    In the case of Sanction, it might be termed a bug, although I'd prefer calling it a design quirk, much as the fact that Sanction gives its own conviction... But maybe that's just because I don't like to see figuring out the rules and then using it to your advantage as doing bug-exploit.

    My imagination is running wild, so here goes:
    I think the cleric, when he Sanctions a Heretic, sends forth a part of his soul in a ray of light towards it. There is the damage of the collision, then the envoy tears at the enemy's flesh, thus doing melee-range spell damage.

    Please ignore that last part.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker The Witchking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kereon View Post
    Please ignore that last part.
    As soon as i noticed you were RP'ing, i did.


    And yeah, i clarified myself but couldn't beat the edit timer. We're all on the same page.

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  9. #9
    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kereon View Post
    So I was playing around with my inquicar build and noticed something odd, purpose returning mana when it shouldn't (standing at range, etc). Turns out the first tick of sanction (the dot left behind by Sanction Heretic) is causing it. I guess it is considered a melee attack ability.
    Yeah it's been doing this for quite a while. Let's just call it an undocumented "feature". It can be handy in certain PVP scenarios, however now that I've said that it will get nerfed in a flash. Can't have PVP Rogues crying now can we?

    As for Soul Drain it also benefits from melee buffs like Hammer of Virtue so it really does suffer from an identity crisis.

  10. #10
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    Yeah it's been doing this for quite a while. Let's just call it an undocumented "feature". It can be handy in certain PVP scenarios, however now that I've said that it will get nerfed in a flash. Can't have PVP Rogues crying now can we?

    As for Soul Drain it also benefits from melee buffs like Hammer of Virtue so it really does suffer from an identity crisis.
    Not really, it's just considered a melee attack like Jolt, but not a weapon attack.

    As for Sanction that's clearly a bug.
    Last edited by TheGrinnz; 09-04-2012 at 09:45 AM.

  11. #11
    MNM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    Yeah it's been doing this for quite a while. Let's just call it an undocumented "feature". It can be handy in certain PVP scenarios, however now that I've said that it will get nerfed in a flash. Can't have PVP Rogues crying now can we?

    As for Soul Drain it also benefits from melee buffs like Hammer of Virtue so it really does suffer from an identity crisis.
    Don't confuse melee with requires weapon.

  12.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #12
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    It's a bug. It'll be fixed in 1.11. Enjoy it for now!

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    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    It's a bug. It'll be fixed in 1.11. Enjoy it for now!
    Can you look into fixing the various sab/bard attacks that can be counted as melee sometimes as well?

    EDIT: I'm not in game so I can't double check the other abilities ,but iirc at least cadence and all sab charges when detonated in melee count as melee attacks and lowers their damage/healing output by a noticeable amount.
    Last edited by Zyzyx; 09-04-2012 at 10:25 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinbik View Post
    It's a bug. It'll be fixed in 1.11. Enjoy it for now!
    Which means 1.10 has been closed to changes... which means it's Very Soon(TM). Huzzah!

  15. #15
    Shield of Telara aabuster1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sariina View Post
    Which means 1.10 has been closed to changes... which means it's Very Soon(TM). Huzzah!
    Or it means the cleric abilities have been so significantly changed that its a moot point to bring up now :P

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