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Thread: Conquest Master's Retribution vs old trinkets (Tank, melee dps)

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    Plane Touched Whayyel's Avatar
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    Default Conquest Master's Retribution vs old trinkets (Tank, melee dps)

    TANKING
    Ok, so. I had a look at the spreadsheet but as far as I can tell there's no real way to discern between various procs and effects except pure stats..

    Conquest Master's Retribution
    Arkryon's Mirror
    Way of Water

    These 3 trinkets are, afaik, among the best tank trinkets. I vaguely remember reading that the CC lvl48 trinket was best, although I had terrible personal results with it. Taking that one out of the equation, the question is:

    Pure health (Retribution), is it better than the shield (Way) or HoT (Mirror)? From what I can gather, that 30 endurance is massive and probably enough to outdo both of the proc trinkets, although I'd like to check. (In the event it's not best, I believe the shield proc is better than the healing proc?)

    MELEE DPS
    I was always told before that The Cold Heart (DH drop) was best trinket, again I raise the question of whether the 5-stack proc is worse than the constant sp/crit buff? I'm less sure about this one because the Heart does a lot more overall dps than I'd expect.. given a suitable fight.

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    shp
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    It's BiS for every spec.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whayyel View Post
    Pure health (Retribution), is it better than the shield (Way) or HoT (Mirror)? From what I can gather, that 30 endurance is massive and probably enough to outdo both of the proc trinkets, although I'd like to check. (In the event it's not best, I believe the shield proc is better than the healing proc?)
    Trinkets are often subjective and difficult to quantify. For what it's worth I've been told by people who should know that they will be using the new PVP trinket for tanking. You get a bit of everything, some mitigation, some endurance and some extra threat. That's not to say that other trinkets don't have their uses.

    Noshei might chime in here with his analysis if you're lucky.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whayyel View Post
    I was always told before that The Cold Heart (DH drop) was best trinket, again I raise the question of whether the 5-stack proc is worse than the constant sp/crit buff? I'm less sure about this one because the Heart does a lot more overall dps than I'd expect.. given a suitable fight.
    I can't imagine Cold Heart is better than Abyssal Mark of Power, both of these trinkets have a stacking "on damage" proc that tends to favor builds with more damaging abilities per GCD because these give extra chances to proc. Shaman builds with Vengeance of the Winter Storm and Druid builds with Crag Hammer effectively get a 2nd proc chance with every melee strike. It seems to be a lot easier to maintain 5 stacks with builds that use these weapon buffs, and you can get some bonus proc chances with off GCD hits such as Jolt.

    I find it very rare to look over and see more than 3 stacks of AMOP in 51 Inquisitor. I don't run a BnJ anymore because it's diffcult to justify the role slot, however 5 stacks of AMOP seemed to be up all the time. Even with three stacks of AMOP up 100% of the time I think the new PVP trinket is better; the trinket will scale with raid buffs and the extra crit nudges it clearly in front.

    The PVP trinket obviously beats Royal Focusing Crystal and Lost Favor, I would also place it ahead of Lifebound Relic, once again because of the extra crit and scaling.

    So to summarise, I would rate the PVP trinket BiS for all roles and builds except for BnJ, Shaman and Druid where AMOP should be at 5 stacks more often than not. I don't know where Cold Heart sits, I recall the best I could get out of it was 90 DPS but I think more usually it was 60-70. Purifiers may prefer Token of Warding.

    ID progression raiders, regardless of role and build should be using the PVP trinket for the strong stats and very nice endurance boost. I carry this, SHoE and the Alsbeth trinket now for all my roles.

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    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whayyel View Post
    TANKING
    Ok, so. I had a look at the spreadsheet but as far as I can tell there's no real way to discern between various procs and effects except pure stats..

    Conquest Master's Retribution
    Arkryon's Mirror
    Way of Water

    These 3 trinkets are, afaik, among the best tank trinkets. I vaguely remember reading that the CC lvl48 trinket was best, although I had terrible personal results with it. Taking that one out of the equation, the question is:

    Pure health (Retribution), is it better than the shield (Way) or HoT (Mirror)? From what I can gather, that 30 endurance is massive and probably enough to outdo both of the proc trinkets, although I'd like to check. (In the event it's not best, I believe the shield proc is better than the healing proc?)

    MELEE DPS
    I was always told before that The Cold Heart (DH drop) was best trinket, again I raise the question of whether the 5-stack proc is worse than the constant sp/crit buff? I'm less sure about this one because the Heart does a lot more overall dps than I'd expect.. given a suitable fight.
    IF the Cold Heart proced a bit more I would agree, even on boss fights, I rarely see more then 2 stacks on it, and only twice have I seen 4
    Last edited by Mirkin; 07-04-2012 at 01:22 PM.

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    Plane Touched Whayyel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    /snip
    Purifiers may prefer Token of Warding.
    Thanks for the post, it was roughly what I was thinking anyway, opinions/clarifications are always good though.

    I snipped out this one part of your post; Token of Warding is the shield-on-heal proc? I had impression that was worse for puri than anything else, as shields don't actually count as heals afaik (procs wise), and they get more use out of sp for their own shields (before, I believe Lifebound Relic was top over other stuff like SHoE).
    Possible I'm totally wrong ofc

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    Sword of Telara
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    I have the Mirror, Token of Warding, and the new PVP Trinket. Here's how I determine what to use:

    Progression Tanking: PVP Trinket
    Magic damage heavy/high AoE damage: Token of Warding
    Soloing Healing myself through dungeons/Everything else: Mirror

    I think all three have their uses and are all equally useful. I'm looking forward to Way of Water once I get that as it will be a great alternative to Mirror.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar
    Hey guys, there is a lot of speculation out there right now, I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.
    Daglar; Lead Calling Designer~10/17/12

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    Conquest trinket is best-in-slot for everything except tank (which is a bit speculative).

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    shp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Conquest trinket is best-in-slot for everything except tank (which is a bit speculative).
    34 wisdom 32 inteligence - more block and parry, better mitigation
    30 end - same as Talisman of Lashing Rain
    45 sp - even more threat I guess? Also sp in general boosts all your skills.

    It's BiS.
    Last edited by shp; 07-04-2012 at 03:49 PM.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whayyel View Post
    Thanks for the post, it was roughly what I was thinking anyway, opinions/clarifications are always good though.

    I snipped out this one part of your post; Token of Warding is the shield-on-heal proc? I had impression that was worse for puri than anything else, as shields don't actually count as heals afaik (procs wise), and they get more use out of sp for their own shields (before, I believe Lifebound Relic was top over other stuff like SHoE).
    Possible I'm totally wrong ofc
    If you are in Purifier or Purisent then you are spamming RF which provides plenty of proc chances for the Token. Wards may not provide a proc chance but then you are not casting wards. Surging Flames may be another proc source so it's not a question of limited proc chances. Either way, it has the same number of proc chances as the Lifebound Relic.

    I've done some rough and ready napkin math and by my etsimation the Token provides much more shielding potential than the PVP trinket given the proc rates I've observed in the past. Of course one big shield every so often may be less desirable than a small thoughput boost and regular small shielding boosts.

    It all boils down to which trinket best suits the encounter. I occasionally use SHoE with Purifier, a good example is Ituziel. If the encounter is very comfortable and we have plenty of raid healing then I'll use the Token, otherwise for progression content and increased survivability I use the PVP trinket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shp View Post
    34 wisdom 32 inteligence - more block and parry, better mitigation
    30 end - same as Talisman of Lashing Rain
    45 sp - even more threat I guess? Also sp in general boosts all your skills.

    It's BiS.
    Comparing to Way of Water is not simple as comparing this trinket to AmoP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowler Hat View Post
    If you are in Purifier or Purisent then you are spamming RF which provides plenty of proc chances for the Token. Wards may not provide a proc chance but then you are not casting wards. Surging Flames may be another proc source so it's not a question of limited proc chances. Either way, it has the same number of proc chances as the Lifebound Relic.

    I've done some rough and ready napkin math and by my etsimation the Token provides much more shielding potential than the PVP trinket given the proc rates I've observed in the past. Of course one big shield every so often may be less desirable than a small thoughput boost and regular small shielding boosts.

    It all boils down to which trinket best suits the encounter. I occasionally use SHoE with Purifier, a good example is Ituziel. If the encounter is very comfortable and we have plenty of raid healing then I'll use the Token, otherwise for progression content and increased survivability I use the PVP trinket.
    Some quick numbers with 51 puri...

    **Without trinket: RF 4048 - 6881; 3525 shield

    **With trinket: RF 4166 - 7082; 3645 shield

    What I'm seeing is an average heal increase of 150, with an extra 120 shielding per cast. Take it for what you will.

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    RIFT Guide Writer Bowler Hat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    What I'm seeing is an average heal increase of 150, with an extra 120 shielding per cast. Take it for what you will.
    That's almost twice the shielding amount I had extrapolated.

    I'll check on the dummies when I can.

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