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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Cleric DPS falling behind

  1. #1
    Shield of Telara aabuster1's Avatar
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    Default Cleric DPS falling behind

    Tanking: Tanking seems pretty good at this point in the game. The Justicar could use a bit more HP to be on par but in most other aspects it seems fairly balanced.

    Healing: We are fine there; I wish the other classes had more options for healing. Give the rogue a full heal build, Give the mage a second heal soul. I even wish the warrior had a full heal soul but since that has been talked about before... Give them a support heal soul.

    DPS: Cleric DPS isn't where all the other classes' DPS is at the moment. Who knows if MOA is the culprit, honestly I don't care what the problem is all I know is that it has to be fixed. When I put all my points into doing DPS, when I put all my effort into being DPS, I want to be just as good as any other class in the DPS role with equal gear and skill. If a class isn't capeable at being best at a role it is quite pointless to have that class play that role.

    Cabalist: Cabalist like my other post has fallen behind other pure AOE builds. There are a few builds out that outperform the cabalist in AOE and to top it off they still have top single target damage in that same spec - while not alone in this I specifically point out warriors. The cabalist on the other hand is a one trick pony that only performs well with AOE, and now it is not even equal with the top AOE specs, nor does the cabalist have the ability to do any respectable single target damage like the other top AOE specs out there now.

    Shaman: Pure shaman builds have once again fallen behind their warrior/rogue melee counter parts in damage. The shaman also suffers in its DPS from the random number generator, documented in many other threads. While the shaman is a front line combatant its defenses are lacking. Currently the shaman gets a once every 30 seconds bubble, a heal when crit on, and a +3% mitigation boost. In comparison; the DPS Melee rogue and warrior have superior armor mitigation plus their passive 10-15% each Dodge and Parry versus the less than 1 (ONE)% dodge and parry on the DPS mellee shaman (Just like every CLERIC spec except those that take 22-28? justicar) make the shaman take far more damage and die more often in PVE when compared to it's rogue and warrior counterparts while at the same time incapeable of doing equivalent damage.

    Druid, Inquisitor...

    To make a long story short: In general the cleric, in all of its DPS souls, is once again becoming a second rate DPS. When given the choice between two equally skilled and equally geared players for a DPS slot the cleric is the class that will not be picked. This is not how it should be. I and many other players have put hours, days, and weeks into their cleric DPS because we thought this was a game where given a ROLE a player could achieve top ability in that ROLE regardless of class. In a game based on roles all classes with that role have to be equal in its performance else the game is in need of correction. Given the cleric's current ability in its DPS role the time for that correction is now.

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    Oh look another one in our team Welcome to the club. I think most of us who posted about dps falling behind simply gave up. For me specifically 1.9 patch notes were over the top, when every class got something (hey a tooltip update is still an update) except a class that arguably requires the most updates. Our class subforum is full of factual data of our actual dps, comparison to other classes, etc etc. The silence from our developer means Trion is happy with where clerics land. It also could be a way to balance classes and reduce the number of clerics.
    I even called Trion's customer support to provide a constructive feedback about the class and I was sent to F.orums with a note there is a team at Trion that monitors these. Well if there is, that team doesn't do a blanket (replace with more appropriate).

    In any case, ladies and gentelmen, I give you the one and only class designed to be good only at Instant Adventures - THE CLERIC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitness View Post
    Oh look another one in our team Welcome to the club. I think most of us who posted about dps falling behind simply gave up. For me specifically 1.9 patch notes were over the top, when every class got something (hey a tooltip update is still an update) except a class that arguably requires the most updates. Our class subforum is full of factual data of our actual dps, comparison to other classes, etc etc. The silence from our developer means Trion is happy with where clerics land. It also could be a way to balance classes and reduce the number of clerics.
    I even called Trion's customer support to provide a constructive feedback about the class and I was sent to F.orums with a note there is a team at Trion that monitors these. Well if there is, that team doesn't do a blanket (replace with more appropriate).

    In any case, ladies and gentelmen, I give you the one and only class designed to be good only at Instant Adventures - THE CLERIC.
    So, you're actually upset we didn't get tooltip updates?

    Conspiracy theories aside, we could use a DPS boost and I think we will see one with Storm Legion, only time will tell though.

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    The history of the Cleric class is basically one where the DPS has been behind and only after what seems like a lot of *****ing or just delay is anything really done, and then the very next patch every other class gets a boost and the Cleric is left behind.

    The cleric lead developer doesn't seem stupid to me, seems very knowledgeable and obviously reads the forums, doesn't post much but when he/she does it's obvious he/she knows what they are talking about. So it's not like Trion could be unware that Clerics aren't generally behind in DPS.

    To me it seems painfully obvious that Shaman... basically sucks. Even compared to the other melee soul in the cleric class, Druid. Druid, which will probably do more dps consistently, provides some utility and can switch into a heal hybrid on the fly. The Shaman does have a ranged interrupt, which would be a pretty useful thingg if it was a ranged soul... but it's not.


    Trion backed themselves into a corner with AOE damage in general, imho it's too high at the moment and you end up with the Cabalist soul, what can be done with it ? Nothing really. Increase it's AOE damage ? Who cares it's awesome already. !2K to 14 K ? Does anyone really care ? Increase it's single target ? Then why play any other soul ? It's just personal opinion but I don't like the deisgn of having an AOE only soul, especially when the game designers then go and break that mould they created with other classes and allow both AOE/ST in single builds.


    Anyway rant over for now.
    Last edited by Malark; 07-02-2012 at 07:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    So, you're actually upset we didn't get tooltip updates?

    Conspiracy theories aside, we could use a DPS boost and I think we will see one with Storm Legion, only time will tell though.
    I am not upset, not anymore at least. But the fact that a class that arguably requires the most updates got nothing in 1.9, tooltips jokes aside, seemed like a slap in the face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malark View Post
    . So it's not like Trion could be unware that Clerics aren't generally behind in DPS.
    That should read are behind. Sleepy time for me.

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    Champion of Telara dead2soon's Avatar
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    The Cleric class is the red headed step child of Rift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aabuster1 View Post
    ....
    Never played Bolt n Jolt, or not at the correct itemization level for Bolt n Jolt I assume?
    Last edited by Ak1230; 07-02-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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    There are at least 1 post / weak about that.

    You'll have people complaining, some will tell you to try BnJ altough you'll never see any parse other than Sicaron, etc, etc, it's not gonna change, face it xD

    Actually if you wan't to push up clerc dps, you'll need to give some more options to other callings, cleric would be so much powerful.
    We are good tanks, good healers, I know some people want to dps full time, but if we were top dps, we should give healing souls to rogues/warrior

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    i truly belive trion has done a good job with clerics so far considering where we started from.

    tanking , we were by far the worst tanks and the basically relegated to OT or duneon tank but they have made large strides to fixing this. we are currently extremely solid tanks and in a great place.

    healing, we are awsome at, they fixed purifier ways back by making their shields scale better, gave them aoe shields, gave warden a brez, we remain extremely strong and highly desireable as healers both raid and tank.

    dps they have done some good things and some bad. they did good with inquisitor, i think its very well balanced provides utility and sought after raid buffs. they have a great crystal and adding clinging to BOD was a great move.

    the other 3.... well thats a different story.

    they did a ok job making cabalist alot more approachable in 1.6 but at the same time they took away some of the abilities we could chain together. once MOA came out though they really kicked it in the nuts as shadows touch is such a large part of its ST damage and is unaffected. it needs more high dps ST dots/channels to bring it inline with sab/champ/SC single target.

    druid, well they buffed it up again but theres still nothing really in the soul that allows for propper scaling so its always going to fall behind with better gear and in raids. the fairy is extremely powerfull healer but again, extremely limited as she only heals in her party. untill they implement pet scaling this isnt going to get any better.

    shaman, they had an opportunity in 1.7 to finally give it the punch it needs and its so close yet so far away. ive addressed its shortcomings before but they revolve around brutalize and they need to be fixed and before the expansion. as far as new skills i see it really benefitting from a large follow up attack, the type of attack massive blow trys to be but has never been. maybe like "really massive blow"
    Last edited by Shieldy; 07-02-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    So, you're actually upset we didn't get tooltip updates?

    Conspiracy theories aside, we could use a DPS boost and I think we will see one with Storm Legion, only time will tell though.
    I have no doubt that clerics will get a large DPS boost in the next major patch and everyone will praise Trion for it. But at the same time ALL the other classes will get DPS boosts too and we will still be last, but maybe not as far behind as we are now. Then a few months later all the OTHER classes will get more smaller boosts and start the widen the gap yet again.

    Clerics way back around 1.2 use to be the top DPS class. Now the way I see it is that as long as I am put all of my points into DPS souls i should be able to compete with other dps builds of other classes. Mages have 1 healing soul and can out raid heal clerics and main tank heal just as good. Clerics have 4 DPS souls and can't out DPS mages. I don't understand that logic.
    I kill more players than anyone! Just ask the last raid that asked me to heal!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    I wanted to come out and say the following pretty definitively: There is no goal to make DPS clerics that DPS do less damage than other callings.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara aabuster1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kode9 View Post
    There are at least 1 post / weak about that.
    Actually if you wan't to push up clerc dps, you'll need to give some more options to other callings, cleric would be so much powerful.
    We are good tanks, good healers, I know some people want to dps full time, but if we were top dps, we should give healing souls to rogues/warrior
    Listen to what you are saying. You are telling the cleric community that we should not be able to perform our role as DPS. You are basically saying the four dps souls we have are meant to subpar.

    Of course that is not how it is supposed to be.

    As to you people saying wait - I believe that is not the answer. As everyone knows the squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled therefor if enough people post their experience and expectations for the cleric DPS souls to be equal to all other dps souls that is what will happen. Thats what was advertised, that is what I want, no less.

    The cleric as a super-class if we get EQUAL DPS in our DPS ROLE? That is a false and tired argument that generally comes out of warriors' mouths. People who play the cleric play it for the flavor. They like the way the way certain graphics are, they like a specific few souls, they like the lore behind the class. God knows the sky was falling when we were told cleric tanking was going to be on par with all the other tanks. The forum warriors told us that the cleric would become the super class. I'm still looking for those 20 man cleric raids. I'm still looking for people to abandon the warrior, the mage, and the rogue and join the evil-all-powerful cleric class... Those fears were then, and now, unfounded in truth and were only meant to hold one class, the cleric class back from being able to perform equally in one of its roles.

    Class should not influence ability.

    Having more than one soul for a specific role is for versatility in performing that role.
    Having more than one Role for a class is versatility for the class.

    Regardless of which type of versatility you have...
    I say again. The game will not, and can not, be balanced until there is equal ability for each class to perform its given roles. Skill and gear should be the only factors that determine ability in a specific role, not the characters class.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara aabuster1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivengar View Post
    I have no doubt that clerics will get a large DPS boost in the next major patch and everyone will praise Trion for it. But at the same time ALL the other classes will get DPS boosts too and we will still be last, but maybe not as far behind as we are now. Then a few months later all the OTHER classes will get more smaller boosts and start the widen the gap yet again.
    This is what seems to be the very predictable pattern. /sigh.

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    Shield of Telara Eosmeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivengar View Post
    Mages have 1 healing soul and can out raid heal clerics and main tank heal just as good. Clerics have 4 DPS souls and can't out DPS mages. I don't understand that logic.
    Clerics have much more versatility with healing than a mage. One can never replace the other. A mage does very steady raid heals but can't compete with a senticar for bursty fights. Their MT healing can't come close to a deep sentinel or a purifier.

    IMO clerics shouldn't be able to be the best at everything. We are great tanks, esp add tanks. We are the best healers, though we can't replace a good chloro on a fight that needs a lot of steady raid healing. We do decent dps but also have the ability to have great hybrid dps specs. Though a mage will beat our top DPS, they don't really have this hybrid option besides pyro-chloro (and their DPS won't come close to an inquisicar).

    Then again I rolled cleric to be a healer primarily. If I wanted to dps primarily I probably would've rolled a mage. And if clerics are op at everything, why would anyone roll another class?

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    Personally, i'm not asking to be top DPS just able to compete given similiar gear level. Lets be honest, Mage Defilemancer deserves to be top DPS right now, no other spec really can compare to min/maxing it takes mages to do that spec well, but they can be almost 1,000 DPS ahead of clerics and that is a bit absurd. I would welcome a really complicated Cleric DPS spec that required a lot of practice to get good at but was capable of competing for top spot in DPS, but I don't see it happening.

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