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Thread: Asphodels Synergy! (4pc Buff Discussion)

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    Rift Disciple Deviancy's Avatar
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    Default Asphodels Synergy! (4pc Buff Discussion)

    This thread is a suggestion+discussion thread over the current state of our 4pc bonuses from the current synergy crystals and how they should be improved if at all.

    Cabalist
    Current: Increases the Cleric's death damage by 10%
    Comments: This is too low for a soul dedicated to death damage. One could get the same effect by running with the inquisitor crystal instead.
    Suggestion: Buff it up to 15% to make it worthwhile to pickup the crystal for cabalist instead of sticking with the inquisitor crystal which also works for other specs.

    Druid
    Current: Increases the melee damage and healing effectiveness of the Cleric's pets by 20%.
    Comment: Seems like a good buff, not too strong not too weak. Druid is not a class I am a master of, but I see no reason why this should need changing.
    Suggestion: Keep it the same.

    Inquisitor
    Current: Increases the Cleric's life and death damage by 10%.
    Comment: Great bonus, works well without overpowering clerics. Great crystal for most specs.
    Suggestion: Keep it the same.

    Justicar
    Current: Causes the Cleric's Doctrine of Authority to shield them for 10 seconds, absorbing damage equal to 50% of the Cleric's spell power.
    Comment: Really? a 500 shield every 15 seconds? That's barley a blip in the radar in HK or ID. Rarely has this 500 shield ever made a difference.
    Suggestion: Increase the shielding to either 100% or 200% spellpower to create a 4pc that actually does something. a shield for 1000 or 2000 at the right time can really make a difference. Currently, the small shield feels useless.

    Purifer
    Current: The Cleric's single-target fire-based heals reduce the damage the ally takes by 7% for 10 seconds.
    Comments: I like the flavor of this crystal. It's not too overpowered and it makes the purifier crystal worthwhile.
    Suggestion: Perhaps buff the shield to 8%, as the 7% is only a 2% upgrade over protect the flock and having the 4pc as a purifier should make more of a difference than 2%.

    Sentinel
    Current: Increases the effectiveness of the Cleric's single target life-based heals by 10%.
    Comments: It's nice, but it makes a hard choice between purifier crystal and sentinel crystal for a purisent healer. If it were more, it would become more appealing to deep sent builds more than it currently is.
    Suggestions: Increase the effectiveness to 15% to make it worthwhile for purisents to use healing invocation with this crystal instead of rocking the purifier crystal. At the moment, I think the sentinel crystal is very lackluster.

    Shaman
    Current: Causes the Cleric's Massive Blow to reduce their global cooldown by 0.5 seconds for 3 seconds.
    Comments: This is part of why shaman's dps is so RNG heavy. Hopefully getting a Long Memory proc to get off Massive Blow again to proc the reduced GCD and brutalize. This needs a change; why should Shaman be the only class that doesn't get a constant bonus from their 4pc?
    Suggestion: Two options: A) Increase the duration of the buff from 3 seconds to 8 seconds, giving plenty of time to proc Long Memory and refresh the buff. B) Change the proc to Crushing Blow instead. This option is less favorable as it could possibly be abused by other specs, but it would create a way for crushing blow to be more useful than a tool for proccing Mighty Blow.

    Warden
    Current: Increases the effectiveness of the Cleric's Water-based heals by 15%.
    Comments: Very nice buff for warden once hitting 4pc without being too too overpowered. Perhaps make the tooltip of Overflow say that it is a water-based heal.
    Suggestions: No change.



    I would love to hear comments from players on these synergy crystals and suggest changes of your own! Currently I think the synergy crystals most in need of change are the Justicar Crystal and the Shaman Crystal.


    Deviancy
    Level 50 Cleric - Defiant
    11/11 HK
    3/8 ID
    Lots of cleric experience :P

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    Rift Disciple Atrlion's Avatar
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    druid crystal does need to be buffed, i like your idea for shaman crystal, although shaman still needs a buff, it really should be out top dps spec.
    *Looks at Greenscale* "Ima Boop you on the head"... "BOOP"*arrow hits Greenscale in the face* *slip away* "RoFL" .... Raid wipe.

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    Rift Disciple Deviancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrlion View Post
    druid crystal does need to be buffed, i like your idea for shaman crystal, although shaman still needs a buff, it really should be out top dps spec.

    I don't have too much experience with druid unfortunately, so I was unsure if it needed a buff.

    I haven't even really tested the 4pc of the Shaman crystal, but it seems like it needs a duration buff so it's not so dependent on long memory to stay up. Also it will improve shaman's dps =P

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Most suggestions are reasonable. But if you think the Purifier buff is insignificant then you clearly have no idea how mitigation works.
    Nope.

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    Rift Disciple Deviancy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Most suggestions are reasonable. But if you think the Purifier buff is insignificant then you clearly have no idea how mitigation works.
    I don't think it's insignificant, it's 2% more than normal, I am happy with it but buffing it would make the 4pc on Purifier even nicer and more appealing. I'm not saying the 7% is bad, just that it's not too much more than the mit buff from a raid healer and buffing it could help improve the purifier's niche.

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    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalthirst View Post
    Most suggestions are reasonable. But if you think the Purifier buff is insignificant then you clearly have no idea how mitigation works.
    Hmm, seems like you're putting words into his mouth. He didn't say it was insignificant, he said that it would be nice for it to be a bigger upgrade over flock, which I agree with.

    .

    Most changes are okay, I kinda think the Justicar change should be a flat out mitigation increase to put us more in line with other tanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviancy View Post
    This thread is a suggestion+discussion thread over the current state of our 4pc bonuses from the current synergy crystals and how they should be improved if at all.

    Cabalist
    Current: Increases the Cleric's death damage by 10%
    Comments: This is too low for a soul dedicated to death damage. One could get the same effect by running with the inquisitor crystal instead.
    Suggestion: Buff it up to 15% to make it worthwhile to pickup the crystal for cabalist instead of sticking with the inquisitor crystal which also works for other specs.

    Druid
    Current: Increases the melee damage and healing effectiveness of the Cleric's pets by 20%.
    Comment: Seems like a good buff, not too strong not too weak. Druid is not a class I am a master of, but I see no reason why this should need changing.
    Suggestion: Keep it the same.

    Inquisitor
    Current: Increases the Cleric's life and death damage by 10%.
    Comment: Great bonus, works well without overpowering clerics. Great crystal for most specs.
    Suggestion: Keep it the same.

    Justicar
    Current: Causes the Cleric's Doctrine of Authority to shield them for 10 seconds, absorbing damage equal to 50% of the Cleric's spell power.
    Comment: Really? a 500 shield every 15 seconds? That's barley a blip in the radar in HK or ID. Rarely has this 500 shield ever made a difference.
    Suggestion: Increase the shielding to either 100% or 200% spellpower to create a 4pc that actually does something. a shield for 1000 or 2000 at the right time can really make a difference. Currently, the small shield feels useless.

    Purifer
    Current: The Cleric's single-target fire-based heals reduce the damage the ally takes by 7% for 10 seconds.
    Comments: I like the flavor of this crystal. It's not too overpowered and it makes the purifier crystal worthwhile.
    Suggestion: Perhaps buff the shield to 8%, as the 7% is only a 2% upgrade over protect the flock and having the 4pc as a purifier should make more of a difference than 2%.

    Sentinel
    Current: Increases the effectiveness of the Cleric's single target life-based heals by 10%.
    Comments: It's nice, but it makes a hard choice between purifier crystal and sentinel crystal for a purisent healer. If it were more, it would become more appealing to deep sent builds more than it currently is.
    Suggestions: Increase the effectiveness to 15% to make it worthwhile for purisents to use healing invocation with this crystal instead of rocking the purifier crystal. At the moment, I think the sentinel crystal is very lackluster.

    Shaman
    Current: Causes the Cleric's Massive Blow to reduce their global cooldown by 0.5 seconds for 3 seconds.
    Comments: This is part of why shaman's dps is so RNG heavy. Hopefully getting a Long Memory proc to get off Massive Blow again to proc the reduced GCD and brutalize. This needs a change; why should Shaman be the only class that doesn't get a constant bonus from their 4pc?
    Suggestion: Two options: A) Increase the duration of the buff from 3 seconds to 8 seconds, giving plenty of time to proc Long Memory and refresh the buff. B) Change the proc to Crushing Blow instead. This option is less favorable as it could possibly be abused by other specs, but it would create a way for crushing blow to be more useful than a tool for proccing Mighty Blow.

    Warden
    Current: Increases the effectiveness of the Cleric's Water-based heals by 15%.
    Comments: Very nice buff for warden once hitting 4pc without being too too overpowered. Perhaps make the tooltip of Overflow say that it is a water-based heal.
    Suggestions: No change.



    I would love to hear comments from players on these synergy crystals and suggest changes of your own! Currently I think the synergy crystals most in need of change are the Justicar Crystal and the Shaman Crystal.


    Deviancy
    Level 50 Cleric - Defiant
    11/11 HK
    3/8 ID
    Lots of cleric experience :P
    I honestly think the biggest limiting factor is that the Purifier crystal gives that mitigation, as soon as they gave Purifier that bonus it became the only real soul to consider for single target healing and I kinda think that's bad design. It's a big part of the puzzle on why there's not much point investing heavily into Sentinel. Boosting Sentinels single target heals is always going to be an empty thing compared to that, always, so I think either the crystal needs to boost AOE more, or provide some other kind of bonus rather than 10% on a heal that doesn't ever really matter.
    Last edited by Malark; 06-27-2012 at 01:31 AM.

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    Ascendant Primalthirst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deviancy View Post
    I don't think it's insignificant, it's 2% more than normal, I am happy with it but buffing it would make the 4pc on Purifier even nicer and more appealing. I'm not saying the 7% is bad, just that it's not too much more than the mit buff from a raid healer and buffing it could help improve the purifier's niche.
    That equates to approx 5% less damage taken due to how mitigation scales. Combined with the shield from Restorative Flame puri is already completely unparalleled in tank healing. It doesn't really need to be even further ahead of every other spec.

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    Rift Disciple FaunaShaman's Avatar
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    Been a while since ive had to MT heal, but does protect the flock stack with the puri crystal for a total of 12% damage mitigation?

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    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by FaunaShaman View Post
    Been a while since ive had to MT heal, but does protect the flock stack with the puri crystal for a total of 12% damage mitigation?
    No as stated above

  11. #11
    Iri
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    The druid crystal needs help... it's pretty crummy. Possibly a boost to Earthquake? Purifier crystal is fine... I don't feel like Puri really needs any further boost for tank healing. And yeah, Justicar crystal... it's a nice idea, making up for the lack of good cleric tank cds by using the crystal to turn another skill into a cd, but it's a crappy cd right now. Buff plz.

    The shaman crystal... until the rng nature of deep shaman's dependency on Long Memory is fixed, there's no point in fixing the crystal. Cabalist crystal is in the same boat... until Cab itself gets reworked to suck less, the crystal will continue to be fairly worthless.

    Sentinel crystal... honestly I don't think it's salvageable for tank healing, as RF is ALWAYS going to be preferred because it comes with a shield, while HIl comes with a variable-strength HoT. Those are the factors that give those heals their scaling, and shields are better, straight out. I think this bonus needs to be completely reworked to support AE healing, as that's really where sentinel is best anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iri View Post
    The shaman crystal... until the rng nature of deep shaman's dependency on Long Memory is fixed, there's no point in fixing the crystal.
    Changing the buff the crystal gives to match the cooldown of Massive Blow would not make fixing it worthless.

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    Iri
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    Sure it would. Shaman would still be totally RNG, but would go from "can pull best DPS by a hair if things go right, or suck if not" to "can blow everyone else away if things go right, or suck if not". My point is that shaman's problems are built into the tree, and until they're fixed there's not really any point in fixing the crystal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iri View Post
    Sure it would. Shaman would still be totally RNG, but would go from "can pull best DPS by a hair if things go right, or suck if not" to "can blow everyone else away if things go right, or suck if not". My point is that shaman's problems are built into the tree, and until they're fixed there's not really any point in fixing the crystal.
    With a constant 1 second GCD it would be more likely to keep 3 stacks of brutalized, so no its still not useless. That doesn't mean there isn't RNG issues with Shaman, but that really doesn't belong in this topic.

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    Iri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelightt View Post
    With a constant 1 second GCD it would be more likely to keep 3 stacks of brutalized, so no its still not useless. That doesn't mean there isn't RNG issues with Shaman, but that really doesn't belong in this topic.
    Right, meaning that with a decent proc rate shaman has permanent 1s gcd and gets a HUGE spike in damage, and if they don't proc well shaman is still crummy. Which is exactly what I said. And... how are you going to divorce the issues with the soul builds from the issues with the crystals designed to support those builds? Trying to argue that analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of particular souls has no place in a thread examining crystals designed to support those souls is pretty silly, imo. If we were trying to look at crystals without considering the souls they're designed to support, our conclusion should be "the easiest way to balance all crystals is to just make them all add an equal amount of spellpower." Booooooooring.

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